JOB to Scunny (20 Viewers)

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shy_tall_knight

Well-Known Member
His career stats are far superior to Baker by the way[/QUOTE]

Well not in terms of goals its not and I'm not Baker's biggest fan but he could cross a ball JOB couldn't. He's gone in TM we trust over SP's choices.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
shy_tall_knight said:
His career stats are far superior to Baker by the way
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Well not in terms of goals its not and I'm not Baker's biggest fan but he could cross a ball JOB couldn't. He's gone in TM we trust over SP's choices.[/QUOTE]

Actually in the championship the goal ratio works in JOB's favour.

Your last comment is absurd by the way.

It's lame reasoning. All managers make good and bad choices. Mowbray has made bad choices.

This to me is not a wise move as he is a useful athlete who can impact games in a very short timeframe. He's not really deployed wide so I don't get the comment and given the way the team plays we tend not to have wingers going down the line much anyway.

The bench options are pretty limited. Lameries is powder puff, Rose is a workhorse but no real flair and I think everyone agreed Bigiamara is not up to standard. So it does weaken our options - definitely - especially as Cole rarely lasts 90 minutes and Murphy can have off days.
 
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shy_tall_knight

Well-Known Member
Actually in the championship the goal ratio works in JOB's favour. Well spotted but we are in League 1 and Baker won player of the season in a promoted side, he is a better player than JOB in this league. JOB will never grace the championship again.

SP identified how many good players ?
 
Otis

Otis

Well-Known Member
But surely this isn't about who is better than who, it's about what players TM believes will best suit the system he wants to play.

It's irrelevant if JOB is better than Baker, or Baker is better than JOB.

Lately JOB has become more of a bit part player and Mowbray obviously doesn't see him as key starter for him every week and JOB wants to be starting every week.

No point arguing about individual merits, it's all about systems and how players fit into those systems.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Otis said:
But surely this isn't about who is better than who, it's about what players TM believes will best suit the system he wants to play.

It's irrelevant if JOB is better than Baker, or Baker is better than JOB.

Lately JOB has become more of a bit part player and Mowbray obviously doesn't see him as key starter for him every week and JOB wants to be starting every week.

No point arguing about individual merits, it's all about systems and how players fit into those systems.
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Mowbray hasn't changed the system has he from the time JOB was playing?
 
Captain Dart

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
In summary, the Pressely way involved fitting square pegs into round holes wheras TM is searching for players who are disciplined and fit the team style of play.
 
Warwickhunt

Warwickhunt

Well-Known Member
I see that TM gave JOB a specific role to fullfill and was probably exasperated over the fact that JOB is a work horse and will go anywhere and everywhere on the pitch to get involved rather than stick to the task set afoot. I have seen a few occasions where play has broken down and JOB was no where near to win it back and in some cases has cost us a goal (Walsall equaliser comes to mind) dont get me wrong i think JOB is a good player and he has/is does us proud on the pitch but TM needed to stabalise the back four and i think the cost of those players will be offset by JOB going to Scunny. i also think JOB does not want a bit part role in the squad and pushed TM for more game time.
 
Otis

Otis

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
Mowbray hasn't changed the system has he from the time JOB was playing?
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I think he has a little, yes. He said himself we needed to adapt and change.

I really rate JOB, but he hasn't been the same player of late and I do think that TM has asked him to perform a role that he is not quite conformable with.

Previously JOB has been given licence to roam and you would see him in all four quartets of the pitch. Lately, he has seemed to be deployed in a more set position.

Of course we can just all speculate, but I would say the combination of JOB not being as influential as previous and the fact that he has been more restrained in his wanderings on the pitch, make me think TM doesn't feel he can fulfil the role he wants of him.

JOB has been more disciplined of late, but I don't think that quite suits his game.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Otis said:
I think he has a little, yes. He said himself we needed to adapt and change.

I really rate JOB, but he hasn't been the same player of late and I do think that TM has asked him to perform a role that he is not quite conformable with.

Previously JOB has been given licence to roam and you would see him in all four quartets of the pitch. Lately, he has seemed to be deployed in a more set position.

Of course we can just all speculate, but I would say the combination of JOB not being as influential as previous and the fact that he has been more restrained in his wanderings on the pitch, make me think TM doesn't feel he can fulfil the role he wants of him.

JOB has been more disciplined of late, but I don't think that quite suits his game.
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Sorry - don't agree. Think it's a mistake. He is pretty flexible and no one knows if he's happy or not.

At also seems odd that people are critical of his lack of discipline yet he was a pivotal player when we were at our performance peak. It's really hard to believe Hunt is going to be a better fit from what we have seen of him.

Mistake in my view that has no benefit at all. We'd have been better not signing Hunt and not wasting time and I assume money on Bigiamara.
 
Otis

Otis

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
Sorry - don't agree. Think it's a mistake. He is pretty flexible and no one knows if he's happy or not.

At also seems odd that people are critical of his lack of discipline yet he was a pivotal player when we were at our performance peak. It's really hard to believe Hunt is going to be a better fit from what we have seen of him.

Mistake in my view that has no benefit at all. We'd have been better not signing Hunt and not wasting time and I assume money on Bigiamara.
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Obviously entitled to your opinion, but I would say it is quite clear that JOB is unhappy and that's because he wants to play every week. That's the type of player he is and he always looks thoroughly disappointed when he is substituted too.

I think he is a wholehearted player who always gives his all and always all but runs himself into the ground.

He's just not been the same player of late. Don't think there's been a fallout or anything, so not unhappy in those terms,but unhappy because he wants first team football every week.
 
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rupert_bear

Well-Known Member
Not good enough. As frustrating Jacob Murphy can be he has scored 10 goals and I believe has 9 assists, I doubt JOB is anywhere near that. Mowbray has attempted to sign a couple of right side wide players and may still do so, clearly JOB is not in his long term plans, so taking Scunnys up and coming fixtures in to account an astute move by the gaffer
 
SkyBlue_Bear83

SkyBlue_Bear83

Well-Known Member
I'd have preferred to keep him but this is clearly a move forced by the player.

I'm guessing we have a recall clause in the case of an injury crisis.
 
ccfc1234

ccfc1234

Well-Known Member
CCFC said:
I'd have preferred to keep him but this is clearly a move forced by the player.

I'm guessing we have a recall clause in the case of an injury crisis.
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Why is it clearly a move forced by the player? Why is it clearly not a move imposed on the player by the management after careful assessment of his ability?

The way some are upset over this issues, its as if Championship clubs were in for him and we have lost a huge asset, he has gone to be in the 1st 11 at lower half league L1 team.
 
Otis

Otis

Well-Known Member
Yep. Think JOB may well have gone to TM saying he wants first team football and TM has said he can't guarantee that.
 
ashbyjan

ashbyjan

Well-Known Member
Cannot believe any conspiracy theories (shame!) - seems like we have quite a large and therefore expensive squad for this league and TM is simply cutting his cloth to suit by farming out those he feels are surplus to requirement. Is JOB good enough? In my opinion no - he runs around a lot, plays the occasional decent pass but overall he's a bit of a headless chicken, lots of effort little result. His positional sense is often found wanting - as demonstrated by his error that allowed Walsall to score. Overall simply not good enough for where we want to be.
 
no_loyalty

no_loyalty

Well-Known Member
In the words of Tinie Tempah

Jim's pissed, he never got to fly on Concord
Should have stopped at Cov, and never gone to Scunthorpe
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Otis said:
Yep. Think JOB may well have gone to TM saying he wants first team football and TM has said he can't guarantee that.
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Doesn't every player want that?
 
Otis

Otis

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
Doesn't every player want that?
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Yes, but I think you know what I mean. There have been times before where I'm sure JOB has been one of the first names down on the team sheet. That now doesn't seem to be the case.

JOB is now more of a squad player and I believe he just wants more than that.

I think most players want first team football for sure, but some are happy being squad players and waiting for their chance, but with JOB, he is not happy unless he is playing every week.

He's gone from if he's fit he plays, to a squad member.
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
Odd then he has until now played more games in mid field than any other player with the exception of Vincelot and was a significant player in the long unbeaten run.

His career stats are far superior to Baker by the way
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Not sure how you would really quantify that.

However from a purely statistical basis and you did say career stats.

Baker career average 1 goal in early every 4.5 games

Obrien Career average 1 goal in every 15 games.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
dongonzalos said:
Not sure how you would really quantify that.

However from a purely statistical basis and you did say career stats.

Baker career average 1 goal in early every 4.5 games

Obrien Career average 1 goal in every 15 games.
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I would claim it by the fact that most Barnsley observers rated him as a championship player.

Most of our fans rightly did not rate baker at all.

Comparing the goal ratio is pointless as they are different players but even the O Brien has scored more goals in the championship. Job has played only 2 seasons at this level - baker has trawled the lower leagues for all of his career.

On this one there really is no debate.
 
Ccfcisparks

Ccfcisparks

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
I would claim it by the fact that most Barnsley observers rated him as a championship player.

Most of our fans rightly did not rate baker at all.

Comparing the goal ratio is pointless as they are different players but even the O Brien has scored more goals in the championship. Job has played only 2 seasons at this level - baker has trawled the lower leagues for all of his career.

On this one there really is no debate.
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But JOB and Baker have played 4 seasons in the Championship, therefore you are wrong on this one Grendull
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
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dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
I would claim it by the fact that most Barnsley observers rated him as a championship player.

Most of our fans rightly did not rate baker at all.

Comparing the goal ratio is pointless as they are different players but even the O Brien has scored more goals in the championship. Job has played only 2 seasons at this level - baker has trawled the lower leagues for all of his career.

On this one there really is no debate.
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Just your opinion then not comparing the career stats (like you said) at all

Obviously with the stats Bakers is better.
If we are going by opinions the fact that JOB has been loaned to a lower team in league one, from a team in a promotion campaign.
Whereas Baker was a top player in MK Dons promotion campaign.
Plus this was his managers opinion when he got injured in the championship:-

We're devastated to lose Carl for an extended period," said Robinson.
"He's our top scorer and was player of the year last season - losing a player like that will impact any team."

Then you are right about one thing there is no debate.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
dongonzalos said:
Just your opinion then not comparing the career stats (like you said) at all

Obviously with the stats Bakers is better.
If we are going by opinions the fact that JOB has been loaned to a lowerevek in league one in a promitiin campaign.
Whereas Baker was a top player in MK Dons promotion campaign.
Plus this was his managers opinion when he got injured I. The championship:-

We're devastated to lose Carl for an extended period," said Robinson.
"He's our top scorer and was player of the year last season - losing a player like that will impact any team."

Then you are right about one thing there is no debate.
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He's scored 2 goals - to go with the two he scored in 3 years with us
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
He's scored 2 goals - to go with the two he scored in 3 years with us
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He had scored 4 in 12 for them in total prior to injury (keeping up his career total of 1 in 4)
He had scored 2 in 9 games in the league prior to his injury.
So 1 in 5. If he had kept that up it would have been 8 goals from midfield over 40 games.
 
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dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
fernandopartridge said:
I hope he's not disagreeing with the assertion that Baker isn't a Championship standard player, because he most certainly isn't. He was dreadful for us in the Championship and wouldn't get in our team this season.
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He is arguing that SP was right to choose JOB over Baker.
Which happened when we're in league one.
Their contrasting seasons that season.
Puts an instant end to the debate TBF.
However he won't give up.
He will keep trying
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
dongonzalos said:
He had scored 4 in 12 for them in total prior to injury (keeping up his career total of 1 in 4)
He had scored 2 in 9 games in the league prior to his injury.
So 1 in 5. If he had kept that up it would have been 8 goals from fi field over 40 games.
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Actually he scored 3 goals in the league all season - not 2 - and wasn't even top scorer - its 3 in 25 games and form has improved since his injury
 
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