Council Hearing Match Thread (17 Viewers)

[dongonzalos]

I think theres a bit as well that says the comments he made were justified based on his dealings with SISU.

It also then goes on to say that his comments need to be seen in the context of being straight talking and speaking on behalf of the people of the city.

It is pretty clear cut isn't it? Whether he said it in reply to a question, in a media statement or not it came out of his mouth. Which was the point

It then changes from him being the voice of the people and being proud about it to:



But his words were:



At the end of the day, it is quite clear he said it and that he thought it. Lots of fans do and did, the difference is they aren't council leaders who have agreed to a code of conduct In the first document it says he made the comments speaking for the people of the city, then it changes to him doing things as a fan....

I can't see how anyone would not believe that is how Mr Mutton felt.
I think it is how he felt (just my opinion)
He is a life long Cov fan. Lots of people felt like that.
So as Council leader is he allowed to repeat what an MP said in Parliment is that breaking the codes of ethics?

 

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[italiahorse]

Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
You really think the Rugby club were saying they could go in 50/50?

Club went into admin because ACL were going to put them into admin.


Not sure where the above comment came from in this thread but you do realise the club themselves were threatening to do that first don't you?

I think the club (Seppalla) were 'threatening' liquidation.
Personally I'd take administration if Sisu would let it go and the players and golden share were still in the right place :thinking about:

 

[dongonzalos]

Then it actually happened because ACL were going to... So they pipped them to it.

But I mean before ACL doing anything administration wise the club were using that as a threat during the negotiations

 

[dongonzalos]

I think the club (Seppalla) were 'threatening' liquidation.
Personally I'd take administration if Sisu would let it go and the players and golden share were still in the right place :thinking about:

Sorry yes I think you maybe right and it was worse, I think the threat was possibly liquidation never mind administration

 

[Nick]

I can't see how anyone would not believe that is how Mr Mutton felt.
I think it is how he felt (just my opinion)
He is a life long Cov fan. Lots of people felt like that.
So as Council leader is he allowed to repeat what an MP said in Parliment is that breaking the codes of ethics?

You tell me is that showing respect to somebody you are meant to be working with?

Of course he is a human, so you don't sat it on a radio show as the council leader. You say it behind closed doors or in the pub...

 

[dongonzalos]

You tell me is that showing respect to somebody you are meant to be working with?

Of course he is a human, so you don't sat it on a radio show as the council leader. You say it behind closed doors or in the pub...

To be honest with you if I invested my money in a hedge fund I would want them to fit that description.
However I am sure it wasn't meant as a compliment.
I guess that where the different responsibilities lay.
If a charity and a council run a community asset they have their feet in both camps. Profit but not purely at the expense of what is best for the community.
Where as a private company are likely to be driven purely by profit in their decision making.
Do you think the comment is genuinely damaging, offensive and upsetting to SISU?

 

[Nick]

To be honest with you if I invested my money in a hedge fund I would want them to fit that description.
However I am sure it wasn't meant as a compliment.
I guess that where the different responsibilities lay.
If a charity and a council run a community asset they have their feet in both camps. Profit but not purely at the expense of what is best for the community.
Where as a private company are likely to be driven purely by profit in their decision making.
Do you think the comment is genuinely damaging, offensive and upsetting to SISU?

So was that him showing respect to them? In which case isn't that part of his code of conduct?

 

[dongonzalos]

You tell me is that showing respect to somebody you are meant to be working with?

Of course he is a human, so you don't sat it on a radio show as the council leader. You say it behind closed doors or in the pub...

I presume it's not breaking the code of ethics as he is agreeing with what has already been said. It's not massively rude or disrespectful. He could have said it in a more professional way such as he believes SISU are driven solely by profits and nothing else. That he needs to see that they can make decisions that are for the good fir the community and football club. before they can move on to other business such as selling ACL.

 

[dongonzalos]

So was that him showing respect to them? In which case isn't that part of his code of conduct?

I think I have answered that one as you were typing.
What is your answer to my question?

 

[Nick]

I presume it's not breaking the code of ethics as he is agreeing with what has already been said. It's not massively rude or disrespectful. He could have said it in a more professional way such as he believes SISU are driven solely by profits and nothing else. That he needs to see that they can make decisions that are for the good fir the community and football club. before they can move on to other business such as selling ACL.

So if I was to quote and agree with something racist, homophobic then it's ok? (Not that I am saying he is that).

 

[dongonzalos]

Then it actually happened because ACL were going to... So they pipped them to it.

Mr Fisher was quoted in a national newspaper as saying: “They (ACL) need to re-enter negotiations pronto or we file. We’ll have no option because there would not be reasonable probability of avoiding insolvency liquidation.”

 

[Moff]

I need to stop posting when I'm pissed off.

Mind you I would probably never post

Very good reply which did make me laugh, I admire the honesty

 

[dongonzalos]

So if I was to quote and agree with something racist, homophobic then it's ok? (Not that I am saying he is that).

I think you are ignoring my 3rd/4th line about it not been massively rude or disrespectful.

Do you think the comment is genuinely damaging, offensive and upsetting to SISU?

 

[Nick]

I think you are ignoring my 3rd/4th line about it not been massively rude or disrespectful.

Do you think the comment is genuinely damaging, offensive and upsetting to SISU?

I'm personally not fussed, I don't find most things offensive. I am sure they didn't lose sleep.

The only point was if it broke the code of conduct isn't it?

It's the fact that it was clear from the start the outcome, it was shown he had to declare the other interests which he didn't but was said to have not done anything wrong. If they had said "it was minor, he has been educated now and it is sorted" then you can see it's being dealt with can't you?

 

[dongonzalos]

I'm personally not fussed, I don't find most things offensive. I am sure they didn't lose sleep.

The only point was if it broke the code of conduct isn't it?

It's the fact that it was clear from the start the outcome, it was shown he had to declare the other interests which he didn't but was said to have not done anything wrong. If they had said "it was minor, he has been educated now and it is sorted" then you can see it's being dealt with can't you?

I may not have read into the declaring interests one, properly to be honest. Didn't the outcome find he had stopped declaring after he had no financial interest which looking at the way other councils do it, that is the right thing to do?

 

[Nick]

I may not have read into the declaring interests one, properly to be honest. Didn't the outcome find he had stopped declaring after he had no financial interest which looking at the way other councils do it, that is the right thing to do?

But the rules at CCC were different, so he was in fact in the wrong for it. It is a petty slapped wrist issue I am sure at the most anyway.

He insists that interest had only ceased to have been declared in 2012 because it was not a pecuniary interest and he was no longer required to register it.

Mr Goacher says in other authorities it wouldn’t have had to have been registered, but under Coventry’s code it should have been.

so it is black or white isn't it?

Should he have? Yes or No
Did He? Yes Or No

there is no middle ground with that.

 

[Grendel]

I may not have read into the declaring interests one, properly to be honest. Didn't the outcome find he had stopped declaring after he had no financial interest which looking at the way other councils do it, that is the right thing to do?

No the findings confirmed he was in breach of the code.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

http://democraticservices.coventry.... 29th-Feb-2016 10.00 Ethics Committee.pdf?T=9

Page 11 has the transcript of the radio interview. Mutton says that BA said they were a predator. He says he agrees with that. So Mutton said the words, but as a way of repeating someone. So I'd say he didn't actually say the words as his view, but he did say he held that view. Whether that breaches the Council code is debateable, but not a big deal either way in my view.

 

[dongonzalos]

I'm personally not fussed, I don't find most things offensive. I am sure they didn't lose sleep.

The only point was if it broke the code of conduct isn't it?

It's the fact that it was clear from the start the outcome, it was shown he had to declare the other interests which he didn't but was said to have not done anything wrong. If they had said "it was minor, he has been educated now and it is sorted" then you can see it's being dealt with can't you?

I didn't find it too offensive if you make a stand on someone referring to someone else as driven by greed. Do we not get to the point where we never here people's points of views instead we will just get Prepared, bland, boring safe statements never expressing an opinion

Just a quick Google is calling someone deaf, pig headed, mystical, cruel, living in cloud cuckoo land
Acceptable?

All quotes from council leaders I personally don't want to live in a world where you can't express an opinion that a company are driven by greed because you are a council leader.


Council leader Lord True attacks "pig-headed" Ministry of Defence over Kneller Hall sale

New Worcester City Council leader attacks Labour over Perdiswell - saying you'd have to be "deaf" to not hear football club objections

NewsUKUK Politics
Scottish Labour leader Kezia Dugdale attacks 'cruel and unnecessary' SNP council cuts

Scandal council leader attacks 'mystical' officer group

Council leader attacks ‘cloud cuckoo land’ SNP budget proposals

 

[Nick]

http://democraticservices.coventry.... 29th-Feb-2016 10.00 Ethics Committee.pdf?T=9

Page 11 has the transcript of the radio interview. Mutton says that BA said they were a predator. He says he agrees with that. So Mutton said the words, but as a way of repeating someone. So I'd say he didn't actually say the words as his view, but he did say he held that view. Whether that breaches the Council code is debateable, but not a big deal either way in my view.

It's far from "Seppala is a silly bitch" or something.

 

[Nick]

I didn't find it too offensive if you make a stand on someone referring to someone else as driven by greed. Do we not get to the point where we never here people's points of views instead we will just get Prepared bland full boring safe statements never expressing an opinion

Just a quick Google is calling someone deaf, pig headed, mystical, cruel, living in cloud cuckoo land
Acceptable?

All quotes from council leaders I personally don't want to live in a world where you can't express an option that a company are driven by greed because you are a council leader.


Council leader Lord True attacks "pig-headed" Ministry of Defence over Kneller Hall sale

New Worcester City Council leader attacks Labour over Perdiswell - saying you'd have to be "deaf" to not hear football club objections

NewsUKUK Politics
Scottish Labour leader Kezia Dugdale attacks 'cruel and unnecessary' SNP council cuts

Scandal council leader attacks 'mystical' officer group

Council leader attacks ‘cloud cuckoo land’ SNP budget proposals

I'd let them go live on air and have a full on slanging match with swear words, but I didn't invent the Code of Conduct. If I did it would be much more entertaining

It is hardly the crime of the century, but I think it is more the fact it is waved away as nothing.

A better statement would be "Mr Mutton did make comments which did breach or could be seen to breach, we have sent him for media training and educated him on what he should declare".

 

[Rusty Trombone]

It's far from "Seppala is a silly bitch" or something.

Headline : Nick says Seppala is a silly bitch.

 

[dongonzalos]

I'd let them go live on air and have a full on slanging match with swear words, but I didn't invent the Code of Conduct. If I did it would be much more entertaining

It is hardly the crime of the century, but I think it is more the fact it is waved away as nothing.

A better statement would be "Mr Mutton did make comments which did breach or could be seen to breach, we have sent him for media training and educated him on what he should declare".

I think it depends on your interpretation of the codes of ethics.
It think they should have just said stating that a company are driven by greed was his opinion. He was not rude or disrespectful. It was his opinion.
SISU should have said show me a company that is not a charity that isn't driven by greed.
For me if he had called them corrupt or abused them then that's breaching the code.
However like you I didn't write the code and don't fully understand it.
However if this is breaking it then every council leader across the country are regularly doing the same.

 

[dongonzalos]

Headline : Nick says Seppala is a silly bitch.

Now that breaks the SBT codes of ethics.

 

[Nick]

Now that breaks the SBT codes of ethics.

It's alright I'll get my mum and people who work for me to judge whether I did anything wrong

 

[chiefdave]

http://democraticservices.coventry.... 29th-Feb-2016 10.00 Ethics Committee.pdf?T=9

Page 11 has the transcript of the radio interview. Mutton says that BA said they were a predator. He says he agrees with that. So Mutton said the words, but as a way of repeating someone. So I'd say he didn't actually say the words as his view, but he did say he held that view. Whether that breaches the Council code is debateable, but not a big deal either way in my view.

But look at what he said. The Ainsworth comments from Parliament are quoted. O'Connor then states that would have been said under parliamentary privilege.

O'Connor: I don't know whether Bob Ainsworth would come out in public and say that
Mutton: Maybe not but I would because it is absolutely true

I don't see any ambiguity there. That's not quoting Ainsworth that is stating his own view.

 

[chiefdave]

Council leader Lord True attacks "pig-headed" Ministry of Defence over Kneller Hall sale

New Worcester City Council leader attacks Labour over Perdiswell - saying you'd have to be "deaf" to not hear football club objections

NewsUKUK Politics
Scottish Labour leader Kezia Dugdale attacks 'cruel and unnecessary' SNP council cuts

Scandal council leader attacks 'mystical' officer group

Council leader attacks ‘cloud cuckoo land’ SNP budget proposals

What is noticeable is all those have one things in common. They are one political party attacking another.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

But look at what he said. The Ainsworth comments from Parliament are quoted. O'Connor then states that would have been said under parliamentary privilege.

O'Connor: I don't know whether Bob Ainsworth would come out in public and say that
Mutton: Maybe not but I would because it is absolutely true

I don't see any ambiguity there. That's not quoting Ainsworth that is stating his own view.

Not worth complaining about though, especially as it didn't actually say it, just that his view is 'what he said'.

 

[dongonzalos]

It's alright I'll get my mum and people who work for me to judge whether I did anything wrong

Ha ha you need someone independent to write a report about it first though

 

[Nick]

Ha ha you need someone independent to write a report about it first though

Even if they do say I did something wrong, my panel will just deny it

 

[dongonzalos]

What is noticeable is all those have one things in common. They are one political party attacking another.

Are they exempt from the codes of ethics then?
That was just a quick load I am sure council leaders have criticised private companies as well.

 

[dongonzalos]

Even if they do say I did something wrong, my panel will just deny it

Sewn up

 

[Haigha]

Ha ha you need someone independent to write a report about it first though

Yes, but Nick will be able to choose the independent person to write the report. I am sure he wouldn't pick someone predisposed to his viewpoint...

 

[dongonzalos]

Yes, but Nick will be able to choose the independent person to write the report. I am sure he wouldn't pick someone predisposed to his viewpoint...

Without naming names but in this hypothetical situation do you really think an independent lawyer, asked to determine if An Ex leader and current leader of a public body had broke some codes of ethics. Would have firstly been chosen in order to give the right result and gave the right result (for the public body) despite the evidence showing it should have been the other way. It's a big risk for him and for the council. I would assume the repercussions of breaching the codes of ethics must be very significant to take such risks.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

Bearing in mind the 3 year wait to put in the complaint, maybe the author of the report had this Judge's view of Joy in his thoughts (my use of bold).

'Ms Seppala was the least satisfactory of all the witnesses. In making my general comments above, I said that no-one was deliberately lying. But I fear Ms Seppala has a distorted recollection of some events – particularly about what happened at the meetings in New York in January 2005 – and, with the benefit of hindsight, has introduced a "spin" (I am sorry not to be able to find a better word) which suits the Applicants' case. She is also prone to exaggerate – the Respondents would characterise it as lying, but I give her the benefit of the doubt on that – for instance her suggestion (eventually withdrawn by her) that Mr Wallace had "continually" represented to the Applicants that the RCF Banks had a strong direct claim against TXU Corp when in fact he never said that at all.

She also recollects (and she may well have believed what she was saying) events which did not, as I conclude, take place (namely a conversation with Mr Wallace "in a small room" and Mr Olin reading and explaining a position paper in New York on 11 January 2005). She is, I am quite sure, an astute and effective business woman. I totally reject her description of herself as naïve. I am quite sure that she was closely involved in developments as the representative of SISU as a Committee Creditor. But she had many other business matters on her mind and when it came to producing her witness statement and giving her oral evidence, her recollection was not, I think, as accurate as she would like to make out'.