Academy future? (8 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

Why more secret talks? Could a bit more digging be done?

I hope we can get some sort of partnership with Warwick Uni, not 100% what facilities they have or what would need to be done to get them up to the level.

I guess the other option is sort out the connexion, but last time I went there you probably couldn't get a non league youth team training there.

Is there a list of criteria needed? Is it mainly an indoor pitch that seals it?

Edit : What about Woodlands School? I know they are on about closing it down but don't they have power leagues and a gym etc there?

Partnership with a local school would be a nice touch but again it comes back to investment. Our owners have been saying for some time now that they don't want to make any and the club has to stand on its own. Maybe a partnership with a school may unlock some investment by way of grants? I don't know. Which school is it that has playing fields on the A45 next to Jag Whitley? Seems to be acre's of space there.

 

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[Nick]

Partnership with a local school would be a nice touch but again it comes back to investment. Our owners have been saying for some time now that they don't want to make any and the club has to stand on its own. Maybe a partnership with a school may unlock some investment by way of grants? I don't know. Which school is it that has playing fields on the A45 next to Jag Whitley? Seems to be acre's of space there.

Isn't that King Henrys? Also thought about Bablake but not been there for years, they have shed loads of pitches but no idea if they have a 3g etc.

 

[skybluetony176]

Warwick Uni have most of it looking at it, just not sure about the indoor pitch.

I think it was the lack of indoor pitch that meant we had to come back to the Higgs IIRC. I think the FA/FL threatened to pull the Cat 2 status as there was no indoor pitch available to the required spec. Pretty sure the one at Higgs is the only pitch in the area that meets the requirements.

 

[Nick]

Another held to ransom situation

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Partnership with a local school would be a nice touch but again it comes back to investment. Our owners have been saying for some time now that they don't want to make any and the club has to stand on its own. Maybe a partnership with a school may unlock some investment by way of grants? I don't know. Which school is it that has playing fields on the A45 next to Jag Whitley? Seems to be acre's of space there.

Sounds like you're talking about my old school, Whitley Abbey. Great facilities there when I went to school, a couple of Rugby pitches and about 6/7 Football pitches. It used to take about 10 minutes to walk to the farthest pitch near the A45.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Another held to ransom situation

How on earth is it a "Held to ransom" situation?. If The rules state the pitch has to be a required standard to receive a Cat2 status, then it has to be honoured. End of!

 

[skybluetony176]

Another held to ransom situation

Well unfortunately as I understand it the reason the AHC was built to the spec it was was so CCFC didn't have to make the investment themselves as they couldn't. Seems they recognised that we need charity to survive. Shame the people running the club have never really appreciated that.

It seems to me that a until very recently a long and very much needed partnership and support with the Higgs family is coming to an end. And it's a great shame it's ended up like this.

 

[Captain Dart]

Sounds like you're talking about my old school, Whitley Abbey. Great facilities there when I went to school, a couple of Rugby pitches and about 6/7 Football pitches. It used to take about 10 minutes to walk to the farthest pitch near the A45.

Henry has the pitches next to the A45, the Whitley Abbey pitches were about half a mile from the road at the back of the Baginton Fields school.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Baginton+Fields+School/@52.3804129,-1.4770373,15z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x8c0c0314b743c659

http://findbiznow.co.uk/sports/62954-king-henry-viii-school-playing-fields-a45-coventry-cv3-4ea

JRL are in talks with Henry to buy land
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/revealed-jaguar-land-rovers-500m-10707624

 

[chiefdave]

I love how this is already being spun as totally the fault of CCFC. For all we know the first they knew of this was when it was in the CT. From what we are told they have a rolling deal, did Higgs give the courtesy of informing them of any potential removal of an essential facility.

The question now is what will the clubs response be. The options appear to be hope for no pool at Higgs (most likely out of our control but if that is our only option for continuing the academy then I think the trust and supporters need to apply some pressure), move to a new location (probably requiring an upgrade of facilities somewhere) or losing academy status.

That of course is assuming that the proposed location for the pool will mean the loss of the pitch. And that the money can be raised to pay for it - Higgs, or whoever is in charge no, don't seem to have that at the moment.

Slightly concerned this is a roundabout way of Wasps kicking us out without any bad press falling on them.

hadnt realised they were the decision makers at ccfc.

CCC might not make the decisions at CCFC but they are certainly making decisions that have a huge impact on CCFC. The possible pool at Higgs is not commercially viable so will be subsidised by CCC so you could easily take the view that CCC are taking action which will negatively impact CCFC.

You will find that some payment was eventually made but hey, you keep defending the indefensible !!

Did they? Wasn't the bigger issue that the contract was with the company that went into administration and when the club tried to move that over Higgs objected citing insurance issues.

As with everything these things aren't cut and dried. The CT reported the original contract required CCFC to maintain the pitches using Higgs supplied equipment. Higgs were of the view that it was for CCFC to maintain and / or replace equipment. None of us have seen the contract so its impossible to know who is correct or if the contract contains some ambiguity.

 

[skybluetony176]

Isn't that King Henrys? Also thought about Bablake but not been there for years, they have shed loads of pitches but no idea if they have a 3g etc.

Not sure not being a Cov kid. Just remember seeing that it's school playing fields on the left when approaching tollbar island heading towards Rugby. I first noticed it thinking ideal location for a new ground but then noticed it was school playing fields and building there wouldn't sit well with me. An academy on the other hand could work well for both the school and club with the extra facilities that the school would get to use and a permenant base securing the long term future of the academy. Investment though could be the issue because it is going to take some but like i said with it being a school development outside funding may be available which could take away some of the costs.

 

[Nick]

Not sure not being a Cov kid. Just remember seeing that it's school playing fields on the left when approaching tollbar island heading towards Rugby. I first noticed it thinking ideal location for a new ground but then noticed it was school playing fields and building there wouldn't sit well with me. An academy on the other hand could work well for both the school and club with the extra facilities that the school would get to use and a permenant base securing the long term future of the academy. Investment though could be the issue because it is going to take some but like i said with it being a school development outside funding may be available which could take away some of the costs.

Yeah I remember seeing a sign once, loads of trees to the left.

Bablake is the same sort of thing but in Coundon.

 

[skybluetony176]

I love how this is already being spun as totally the fault of CCFC. For all we know the first they knew of this was when it was in the CT. From what we are told they have a rolling deal, did Higgs give the courtesy of informing them of any potential removal of an essential facility.

The question now is what will the clubs response be. The options appear to be hope for no pool at Higgs (most likely out of our control but if that is our only option for continuing the academy then I think the trust and supporters need to apply some pressure), move to a new location (probably requiring an upgrade of facilities somewhere) or losing academy status.

That of course is assuming that the proposed location for the pool will mean the loss of the pitch. And that the money can be raised to pay for it - Higgs, or whoever is in charge no, don't seem to have that at the moment.

Slightly concerned this is a roundabout way of Wasps kicking us out without any bad press falling on them.



CCC might not make the decisions at CCFC but they are certainly making decisions that have a huge impact on CCFC. The possible pool at Higgs is not commercially viable so will be subsidised by CCC so you could easily take the view that CCC are taking action which will negatively impact CCFC.



Did they? Wasn't the bigger issue that the contract was with the company that went into administration and when the club tried to move that over Higgs objected citing insurance issues.

As with everything these things aren't cut and dried. The CT reported the original contract required CCFC to maintain the pitches using Higgs supplied equipment. Higgs were of the view that it was for CCFC to maintain and / or replace equipment. None of us have seen the contract so its impossible to know who is correct or if the contract contains some ambiguity.

Love the way fuel conspiracy theories based on nothing.

Have wasps just given a medium term comitment to broad street including investment in facilities to use that as a traing base until they can find a permenant base of their own? Be an odd thing to do if you're just about to move into the AEC and kick out CCFC academy wouldn't it?

 

[Nick]

Love the way fuel conspiracy theories based on nothing.

Have wasps just given a medium term comitment to broad street including investment in facilities to use that as a traing base until they can find a permenant base of their own? Be an odd thing to do if you're just about to move into the AEC and kick out CCFC academy wouldn't it?

Isn't it based on people who work at Severn Trent saying the land has been bought next to Higgs by Wasps? And both ST and Wasps giving it a "no comment" when asked?

Also that it has been "secret talks"? Why on earth would there be secret talks about just opening a swimming pool?

 

[chiefdave]

Have wasps just given a medium term comitment to broad street including investment in facilities to use that as a traing base until they can find a permenant base of their own? Be an odd thing to do if you're just about to move into the AEC and kick out CCFC academy wouldn't it?

More to do with the fact that people claim to know for a fact that Wasps have purchased land on the boundary of Higgs. Along with the previous rumours that Wasps would be moving into Higgs causing our academy to be thrown out I think it is a valid concern. And the Broad Street commitment is temporary whilst the permanent facilities are sorted, certainly doesn't rule anything out.

Of course all it needs is the CT to get onto Wasps and get confirmation that the Higgs is not on their radar.

 

[Nick]

More to do with the fact that people claim to know for a fact that Wasps have purchased land on the boundary of Higgs. Along with the previous rumours that Wasps would be moving into Higgs causing our academy to be thrown out I think it is a valid concern. And the Broad Street commitment is temporary whilst the permanent facilities are sorted, certainly doesn't rule anything out.

Of course all it needs is the CT to get onto Wasps and get confirmation that the Higgs is not on their radar.

Both Wasps and Severn Trent refused to comment on the talks about the site when contacted by the Telegraph.

 

[skybluetony176]

Isn't it based on people who work at Severn Trent saying the land has been bought next to Higgs by Wasps? And both ST and Wasps giving it a "no comment" when asked?

The ST site isn't the Higgs centre so again even if that's true they're still not buying the Higgs centre to kick out the CCFC Academy. So it's still a conspiracy theory based on nothing.

Also wouldn't it also mean that the Coventry and Warwickshire Award Trust would have to be in on getting one over on CCFC for the hell of it? How likely does that sound?

 

[Skyblueweeman]

Yet more Telegraph spin causing pant-sh*tting amongst Cov fans.

This isn't confirmed....a couple of bits taken from the article:

The new pool could be built on the site of the existing indoor pitch, which they use - See that word 'could'? Not will be, but could.

But the details of the pool plans are still being worked out and that no final decision about location has been made.

Happy Friday SBT'ers.

WM

 

[Nick]

The ST site isn't the Higgs centre so again even if that's true they're still not buying the Higgs centre to kick out the CCFC Academy. So it's still a conspiracy theory based on nothing.

Also wouldn't it also mean that the Coventry and Warwickshire Award Trust would have to be in on getting one over on CCFC for the hell of it? How likely does that sound?

Nobody has said it is all being done to "get one over on CCFC" though?

 

[skybluetony176]

More to do with the fact that people claim to know for a fact that Wasps have purchased land on the boundary of Higgs. Along with the previous rumours that Wasps would be moving into Higgs causing our academy to be thrown out I think it is a valid concern. And the Broad Street commitment is temporary whilst the permanent facilities are sorted, certainly doesn't rule anything out.

Of course all it needs is the CT to get onto Wasps and get confirmation that the Higgs is not on their radar.

There's a lot of extra facilities going into broadstreet including buildings, a running track and 4g pitch i believe. So you're suggesting that they are going to build them there, which is no weekend job and then build them again at the Higgs once the smoke and mirrors have cleared as it was all part of an evil cunning plan to get one over on CCFC. Really! Actually, never used the Higgs facilities so couldn't tell you what is there but arent alot of what they're doing at Broadstreet already at Higgs? Surely if they were taking over Higgs they could just move straight in once the rolling contract has expired for the academy?

 

[skybluetony176]

Nobody has said it is all being done to "get one over on CCFC" though?

So they would be doing it to help CCFC then?

 

[Nick]

So they would be doing it to help CCFC then?

No it would be to help Wasps wouldn't it?

 

[Nick]

There's a lot of extra facilities going into broadstreet including buildings, a running track and 4g pitch i believe. So you're suggesting that they are going to build them there, which is no weekend job and then build them again at the Higgs once the smoke and mirrors have cleared as it was all part of an evil cunning plan to get one over on CCFC. Really! Actually, never used the Higgs facilities so couldn't tell you what is there but arent alot of what they're doing at Broadstreet already at Higgs? Surely if they were taking over Higgs they could just move straight in once the rolling contract has expired for the academy?

Is it under construction?

 

[chiefdave]

There's a lot of extra facilities going into broadstreet including buildings, a running track and 4g pitch i believe. So you're suggesting that they are going to build them there, which is no weekend job and then build them again at the Higgs once the smoke and mirrors have cleared as it was all part of an evil cunning plan to get one over on CCFC.

Well the are certainly going to build them and then build them again unless they are lying about Broad Street being temporary. No one is saying its to get one over on CCFC - you've just made that up yourself.

Look at what we know, Wasps have yet to reveal the location of their permanent training ground. They are rumoured, from multiple sources, to have purchased ground adjacent to Higgs. There have also been rumours that they will be making use of the Higgs which may mean the loss of the facility to us.

That to me is a cause for concern and something I would hope the local media looks in to. Nobody has said it is definitely happening or that its purely to get one over on us.

Should we just wait and then hope everything is OK? We did that with the Ricoh and look what happened.

 

[skybluetony176]

Is it under construction?

Don't know and quite frankly don't care.

This thread was running along nicely discussing the future of the academy until one of the usual suspects turned up with another conspiracy theory to turn it all on wasps.

I'm actually angry with myself now for biting. Do me a favour Nick and delete my initial reasponse and any other subsequence replies so we can get this thread back on topic please.

 

[Nick]

I still don't get why it is all top secret again?

Surely if it is just a 50m pool being provided it should be celebrated? Would many oppose it?

Nobody is turning it all on Wasps are they? Can it be ruled out or ignored?

 

[AFCCOVENTRY]

If we are getting 500k grant from the premiership for our academy then we should pay to replace the pitch and sign a 10 year deal with them. The same lifespan of the pitch.

 

[oldskyblue58]

CCC might not make the decisions at CCFC but they are certainly making decisions that have a huge impact on CCFC. The possible pool at Higgs is not commercially viable so will be subsidised by CCC so you could easily take the view that CCC are taking action which will negatively impact CCFC.
.

And are they under any obligation to take decisions that are always positive for any 3rd party? As with the details of the Academy arrangement we don't actually know the financial details as to whether its viable or not either. It is not in any case like a decision that say a private company might make there are other factors Councils take in to account as to whether viable in the community or not. Still up to CCFC to protect and prosper its Academy

 

[chiefdave]

And are they under any obligation to take decisions that are always positive for any 3rd party?

I would say it depends on the 3rd party in question and if that 3rd party is someone like CCFC then the council very much should be looking to ensure decisions they make don't have a negative impact.

Still up to CCFC to protect and prosper its Academy

Of course. Just hope the club haven't had the rug pulled from under them and have been kept fully informed since this plan was first conceived. Of course all it needs is one of the parties involved to give a statement that this won't negatively impact the club and any pool will be located elsewhere on the site and we can rest easy.

As with the details of the Academy arrangement we don't actually know the financial details as to whether its viable or not either.

Just going off what was reported by the CT:

The pool will not be self-sustainable and the council plans to use profit from the proposed new water park to cover running costs of the Olympic Pool.

 

[italiahorse]

Well the are certainly going to build them and then build them again unless they are lying about Broad Street being temporary. No one is saying its to get one over on CCFC - you've just made that up yourself.

Look at what we know, Wasps have yet to reveal the location of their permanent training ground. They are rumoured, from multiple sources, to have purchased ground adjacent to Higgs. There have also been rumours that they will be making use of the Higgs which may mean the loss of the facility to us.

That to me is a cause for concern and something I would hope the local media looks in to. Nobody has said it is definitely happening or that its purely to get one over on us.

Should we just wait and then hope everything is OK? We did that with the Ricoh and look what happened.

Why can't we commit to a 10 year deal at Higgs ?

 

[chiefdave]

Why can't we commit to a 10 year deal at Higgs ?

We can if the facilities are going to be in place. We can't if they are going to be removed.

At present as far as I am aware we have a rolling deal in place so I would expect anything such as redevelopment at Higgs to have been communicated to the club at the earliest opportunity.

If it was a case of it being put to the club that if you don't commit to a longer deal we can't provide the facilities then that is one thing. If this has all been done in secret and the first the club knew was when it was in the paper yesterday than, IMO, that is very poor on the part of everyone involved.

Of course it may be the case that a pool and the facilities we require can co-exist in which case there is not an issue. Would be nice if Higgs or the new people coming in could make a statement to put any fears to rest.

 

[italiahorse]

We can if the facilities are going to be in place. We can't if they are going to be removed.

At present as far as I am aware we have a rolling deal in place so I would expect anything such as redevelopment at Higgs to have been communicated to the club at the earliest opportunity.

If it was a case of it being put to the club that if you don't commit to a longer deal we can't provide the facilities then that is one thing. If this has all been done in secret and the first the club knew was when it was in the paper yesterday than, IMO, that is very poor on the part of everyone involved.

Of course it may be the case that a pool and the facilities we require can co-exist in which case there is not an issue. Would be nice if Higgs or the new people coming in could make a statement to put any fears to rest.

If we ever get round to building our own stadium/academy it will be upwards of 5 years before that happens.
So, why do we only work on 1 and 2 year deals ?
Surely it looks to ACL/Higgs as they can plan for us not being there ?

 

[Nick]

If we ever get round to building our own stadium/academy it will be upwards of 5 years before that happens.
So, why do we only work on 1 and 2 year deals ?
Surely it looks to ACL/Higgs as they can plan for us not being there ?

Surely if it is a rolling deal you would check rather than just plan?

 

[italiahorse]

Surely if it is a rolling deal you would check rather than just plan?

Maybe, but my question was why only 1 year when clearly we need more ?

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Henry has the pitches next to the A45, the Whitley Abbey pitches were about half a mile from the road at the back of the Baginton Fields school.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Baginton+Fields+School/@52.3804129,-1.4770373,15z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x8c0c0314b743c659

http://findbiznow.co.uk/sports/62954-king-henry-viii-school-playing-fields-a45-coventry-cv3-4ea

JRL are in talks with Henry to buy land
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/revealed-jaguar-land-rovers-500m-10707624

Showing my age now. Whitley Abbey owned all of the now called Baginton fields and their football pitches ran right down alongside the river Sowe adjacent to the A45. The school gave up land(Baginton fields) for the school "Alice Stevens school" to be built. JLR land was once Rolls Royce, and bordered Whitley Abbey perimeter to the left. Whitley Abbey also owned the woods that ran right through to London road, enfolding Abbey road.

 

[albatross]

The academy is the sole responsibility of CCFC and the custodians of CCFC, No one else's.

If it is as important to the club as we are lead to believe then it is down to CCFC to ensure that all steps are taken to protect this vital asset.

Irrespective of any discussions, secret or otherwise, between any other parties CCFC should have this matter in hand. No excuses.

If CCFC find that they are about to lose the academy due to a swimming pool being put in its place then this would simply be gross negligence on their part as pretty much everyone else seems to know there is something that needs to be checked