Academy future? (26 Viewers)

[Captain Dart]

Showing my age now. Whitley Abbey owned all of the now called Baginton fields and their football pitches ran right down alongside the river Sowe adjacent to the A45. The school gave up land(Baginton fields) for the school "Alice Stevens school" to be built. JLR land was once Rolls Royce, and bordered Whitley Abbey perimeter to the left. Whitley Abbey also owned the woods that ran right through to London road, enfolding Abbey road.

I think your information may be 60 years out of date

 

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[skyblueinBaku]

Showing my age now. Whitley Abbey owned all of the now called Baginton fields and their football pitches ran right down alongside the river Sowe adjacent to the A45. The school gave up land(Baginton fields) for the school "Alice Stevens school" to be built. JLR land was once Rolls Royce, and bordered Whitley Abbey perimeter to the left. Whitley Abbey also owned the woods that ran right through to London road, enfolding Abbey road.

That's how I recall the layout of the grounds when I was at Whitley Abbey. Showing my age too, SBK!

 

[Captain Dart]

We can if the facilities are going to be in place. We can't if they are going to be removed.

The club would not commit, they have put themselves in this position not vice versa

At present as far as I am aware we have a rolling deal in place so I would expect anything such as redevelopment at Higgs to have been communicated to the club at the earliest opportunity.

If it was a case of it being put to the club that if you don't commit to a longer deal we can't provide the facilities then that is one thing. If this has all been done in secret and the first the club knew was when it was in the paper yesterday than, IMO, that is very poor on the part of everyone involved.

Its been in the papers, first story 4 months ago, what has the club done to protect its position since? Nothing!

Of course it may be the case that a pool and the facilities we require can co-exist in which case there is not an issue. Would be nice if Higgs or the new people coming in could make a statement to put any fears to rest.

No they can't the proposal is to replace the indoor pitch with a pool. If that happens either CCFC will have to find an alternative facility or recategorise its academy.

 

[shy_tall_knight]

We need to get Sandra Garlick back to head up on consultation group on the new proposed academy, they are experts on phantom projects.

 

[oucho]

Chris Anderson recently stated the Joy sees the value of the academy and is enthusiastic about it, on the basis that

a) it connects the club with the community
b) provides squad players for less than we'd get for the same players if signed from elsewhere ("squad value"); and
c) potentially able to produce "asset value" i.e. the likes of Wilson and Maddison who can be moved on, to help the club's financial position (backward thinking I know, but this is how it came across)

But he also said that running the academy is very expensive. So I guess we will see what happens when an aspiration of running a great youth setup collides with the bills and politics for doing so.

 

[italiahorse]

We need to get Sandra Garlick back to head up on consultation group on the new proposed academy, they are experts on phantom projects.

May I suggest to her that the new pitches should be canary yellow so the kids don't get confused and it will help when they eventually put on their Norwich shirts ?

 

[Nick]

May I suggest to her that the new pitches should be canary yellow so the kids don't get confused and it will help when they eventually put on their Norwich shirts ?

Better make them cushioned for when they fall over so they don't hurt their little knees.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

That's how I recall the layout of the grounds when I was at Whitley Abbey. Showing my age too, SBK!

Another useless bit of information for you skyblueindorset..... We had a International Standard running track too

 

[Captain Dart]

Another useless bit of information for you skyblueindorset..... We had a International Standard running track too

Still there (on google maps) probably be converted to a JLR spares warehouse soon enough.

 

[Colin Steins Smile]

The academy has consistently been the one profit sector of the clubs activities, due to the sale of it's products. IMO to lose this element or for it to be downgraded is stupidity. What CCFC do face is a cash flow situation, in that they have to invest in a capital project, which will take 5 years to mature.

Given the lack of clarity regarding CCFC's strategic vision for 2016-2024, I worry that the club will decay further.

 

[shy_tall_knight]

Given the lack of clarity regarding CCFC's strategic vision for 2016-2024, I worry that the club will decay further

I don't believe that they have a strategic vision. They have spent (can't call it investment) large sums and are hoping to use their court cases to recover all or part of their outlay. their investment with TM and his staff has the potential of instant returns (promotion bigger crowds) also another relegation may cause their investors to challenge the value of the CCFC investment. However the academy will require a medium to long term investment and I'm not sure that's part of their plan

 

[Moff]

Showing my age now. Whitley Abbey owned all of the now called Baginton fields and their football pitches ran right down alongside the river Sowe adjacent to the A45. The school gave up land(Baginton fields) for the school "Alice Stevens school" to be built. JLR land was once Rolls Royce, and bordered Whitley Abbey perimeter to the left. Whitley Abbey also owned the woods that ran right through to London road, enfolding Abbey road.

That's how I recall the layout of the grounds when I was at Whitley Abbey. Showing my age too, SBK!

In the late 80's the Whitley fields stopped just short of the Henrys fields, just over the Sowe.

Had to run the bastard fields week after week in cross country, and remember there being a field gap before the A45, which were owned by Henrys. Bloody cross country!

 

[skybluetony176]

Well the are certainly going to build them and then build them again unless they are lying about Broad Street being temporary. No one is saying its to get one over on CCFC - you've just made that up yourself.

Look at what we know, Wasps have yet to reveal the location of their permanent training ground. They are rumoured, from multiple sources, to have purchased ground adjacent to Higgs. There have also been rumours that they will be making use of the Higgs which may mean the loss of the facility to us.

That to me is a cause for concern and something I would hope the local media looks in to. Nobody has said it is definitely happening or that its purely to get one over on us.

Should we just wait and then hope everything is OK? We did that with the Ricoh and look what happened.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35835967

Here you go Dave. Sport England, City of Coventry Swimming Club and the Amateur Swimming Association must all be part of this smoke and mirrors cover up for wasps to secretly be taking our place at the Higgs to.

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

2k a day as subsidy to keep the current one open I hope they have a better plan for the new one then as I can't see it being anymore popular out of the town.

 

[chiefdave]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35835967

Here you go Dave. Sport England, City of Coventry Swimming Club and the Amateur Swimming Association must all be part of this smoke and mirrors cover up for wasps to secretly be taking our place at the Higgs to.

FFS you can't really be this stupid. I have not said everyone is part of some big conspiracy, I have said given the information we have, along with the rumours we have heard - some from better sources than others, we should be slightly concerned that Wasps have the Higgs in their sights and our staying there may not be on their agenda if they do.

I would rather the question is asked now, its a very simple question to answer, than wait and find out we have no academy any more. Not sure why you're so up in arms at the thought of one simple question being asked and way you see that as a much worse option than just waiting and seeing if we get kicked out.

Maybe if some questions had been asked earlier regarding the sale of ACL it might not have ended up in the hands of Wasps. Probably why the council did a deal with the local media to suppress the story.

 

[chiefdave]

2k a day as subsidy to keep the current one open I hope they have a better plan for the new one then as I can't see it being anymore popular out of the town.

Council have already said the new one will not be commercially viable and they will be subsidising it!

 

[chiefdave]

The academy is the sole responsibility of CCFC and the custodians of CCFC, No one else's.

Ultimately that is correct but I don't think it absolves others of any responsibility to act in the correct manner. If this has all been agreed behind the clubs back and the first they knew of it was when it appeared in the CT yesterday then frankly that's not on.

 

[torchomatic]

He can.

FFS you can't really be this stupid.

 

[skyblueinBaku]

Another useless bit of information for you skyblueindorset..... We had a International Standard running track too

I wasn't an international standard runner! When were you there?

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

I wasn't an international standard runner! When were you there?

1964-1968. Miss Snelgrove the Drama teacher, phwoarrrr.(Holly willoughbooby lookalike,) Jack Lemon headmaster, Bullbeck, Grove housemaster(Twat) I was in Hood house. I once wagged school in the woods with some others(Local bobby caught us) never wagged again lol.

 

[oldskyblue58]

This rolling agreement. I assume that this is still encompassed in a deal that says the agreement to be a rolling arrangement lasts to a specific date. I can not imagine the arrangement had no end date. Also that the purpose of why it was done this way was to allow the Club to walk away on short notice when the new Academy centre was built with no heavy penalty. So basically every 12 months the club say " yes we still want to be there" knowing the agreement runs to a specific date.

At the moment there is nothing that says whether or not CCFC were not asked to renew - but say they had been? Then you have to ask who said no. What if it were CCFC that said no thanks not past say 2017?

What if the Trust had asked, have conducted themselves in a proper manner? Where does that place the decisions and actions of the club?

Yes I can spin conspiracies as well as anyone else on here

Bottom line is we don't know either way do we. All we can do is ask questions in the hope someone might give a proper answer or two. Until then you have to keep an open mind

Something that really does irritate me though is this repeated notion that somehow CCFC are entitled, are a special case, should expect other parties to put CCFC's needs first and act only in CCFC's interest. There is more to this world than CCFC and it is precisely this kind of attitude that has got our club and many other clubs in huge financial holes. Any other industry many clubs, including ours sadly, would have gone to the wall the fact they haven't is in no small part because of the help received from third parties even and including at CCFC

The real issues are not dealt with, the clubs fail to act with any proper financial probity and seek to pass their short comings on to others with their woe is me hard luck stories ........ It is about time football club owners and directors started taking proper responsibility for the huge damage they cause to communities and heritage.

 

[Captain Dart]

2k a day as subsidy to keep the current one open I hope they have a better plan for the new one then as I can't see it being anymore popular out of the town.

I think they said that profit from a new water sports centre to be built where the Fairfax St baths are now would be used to subsidise a new Olympic sized pool, but that may be politicians bull to justify the scheme in the mind of the public. Me I'm not keen on swimming, wouldn't bother me if there was nothing at all in Coventry, its up to people who want such a facility to make the case.

 

[skyblueinBaku]

1964-1968. Miss Snelgrove the Drama teacher, phwoarrrr.(Holly willoughbooby lookalike,) Jack Lemon headmaster, Bullbeck, Grove housemaster(Twat) I was in Hood house. I once wagged school in the woods with some others(Local bobby caught us) never wagged again lol.

Looks like you got there just after I left at the end of '63. I was in Stoneleigh.

 

[chiefdave]

At the moment there is nothing that says whether or not CCFC were not asked to renew

And that's key. If Higgs, or the new operators, had an issue with the lease has that been communicated to the club along with the potential consequences of a longer lease not being put in place?

Something that really does irritate me though is this repeated notion that somehow CCFC are entitled, are a special case, should expect other parties to put CCFC's needs first and act only in CCFC's interest.

Don't think its really special treatment. I would expect the same for anyone. If such a change was even a possibility, with known potential implications for the tenant, than the conversation should have taken place at the earliest opportunity. As I have said if the club found this out from reading the Telegraph yesterday I think they are entitled to feel very badly treated and any other company or organisation in a similar position would feel the same.

 

[oldskyblue58]

or did the club say no we don't want to renew - neither of us knows for sure

The special treatment comment was far more general than is CCFC being told about this particular deal at the right time.

 

[stupot07]

Whilst I agree that the club have lacked a strategy and the rolling contract is not overly secure for Higgs, as I said earlier, this is likely part of a long term sports strategy led by the council.

The council are knocking down the swimming pool and if they want Olympic sized pool in the city their options are limited, the venue has to be multipurpose in order to be viable to manage it, so has to attach itself to a new or existing sports centre. That leaves the following ootions:

1. New city centre sports centre - already ruled out
2. Foleshill sports centre - already has a swimming pool
3. Moathouse leisure centre - site not big enough/ suitable
4. Xcel Centre - already has a swimming pool
5. AT7 Centre - site not big enough/ suitable

That leaves only the Higgs Centre as fhr site big enough and suitable to stick an Olympic sized pool on the side of the centre.

Without wanting to repeat myself, if an Olympic swimming pool is important for the city, the Higgs centre is the only viable site and as such ccfc's contract status is largely irrelevant.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

If it is so important to the club to have a Cat 2 academy then I find it strange if the club has not safeguarded such an asset from the effects of third party actions. Especially given all that has gone on in the last decade. It should not be about what Higgs do or changes to the site.

I agree, the club should have got a contract saying the Higgs can not make any changed to the site which endangers cat 2 status whilst the academy are their. Obviously after all that has gone now and with the short term nature of the current deal makes it become increasingly difficult to do such a deal.

It isn't up to the AHCT to run or make decisions for the Academy or even make AHCT plans around them. The Trustees have to act in the best interests of the Trust nothing else.

Answered your own question there, how can ccfc guarantee the safety and future of cat 2 status or make any promises when they have no influence or input on the current venue and without a suitable alternative venue.

These events have been well signposted for some time, months, so the risk was there for all that time. Or is it as usual on so many things leave it to the last minute and then blame everyone else. CCFC make the decisions for the Academy and carry all the responsibility for its well being. It would be good if other bodies helped to support it but there is no duty to do so
They may of course have a plan, be able to tell us the risk has been mitigated.

So back to the original question whats the CCFC plan forward for the Academy, the Academy that is so vital to our future viability?

The reason the club aren't guaranteeing the future of the cat 2 status is I expect because they can't. The Higgs centre will be redeveloped into a venue which no longer meets cat 2 requirement and they have no other concrete plan to maintain cat 2 status, they could give us some vague non committal rubbish about how they are exploring other options or other nonsense like that but I don't think anyone would buy it.

I suspect the likely outcome of this will be, the academy will remain at Higgs and we will lose are cat 2 status which will be disappointing as uts unlikely SISU will invest in a new site or the redevelopment of a current venue to meet the criteria

The club probably aren't answering your question as they think they will keep their silence rather than give an unpopular answer.

Its just another product of the SISU v CCC war over the last 5 years and highlights why the club need a degree of control over where they play, where they train and where the academy trains so the football club gets a vote in these decisions and can't have the rug pulled from beneath them because of a feud.

 

[chiefdave]

or did the club say no we don't want to renew

And to me thats where local media lets us down. The CT article is not a cut and paste from a press release, it says they have been asking the questions. Why has the question not been asked as to what, if any, impact this will have on the club's academy and if the response was that the academy would have to move a follow up question asking when the club were made aware of this situation.

Instead we get a story which says the pool may replace the pitch and the academy may have to move. Why not ask the questions and get the facts?

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Something that really does irritate me though is this repeated notion that somehow CCFC are entitled, are a special case, should expect other parties to put CCFC's needs first and act only in CCFC's interest. There is more to this world than CCFC and it is precisely this kind of attitude that has got our club and many other clubs in huge financial holes. Any other industry many clubs, including ours sadly, would have gone to the wall the fact they haven't is in no small part because of the help received from third parties even and including at CCFC
.

Its a fair point but then what irritates me is when these other parties then pretend to care about the football club and pretend they have considered the interest of the football club in a bid to win support from the easily influenced ccfc fans.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Looks like you got there just after I left at the end of '63. I was in Stoneleigh.

Forget the name of Stoneleigh housemaster but I remember his nickname... "Spitfire" lol

 

[oldskyblue58]

Depends if you were in Stoneleigh north SBK - Mrs Rosbottom

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Depends if you were in Stoneleigh north SBK - Mrs Rosbottom

Do you remember the PE teachers? One we named Itchy b***ocks (Preston Roberts.) He was always scratching his nuts.

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

Do you remember the PE teachers? One we named Itchy b***ocks (Preston Roberts.) He was always scratching his nuts.

As long as he wasn't scratching yours that seems ok

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

Council have already said the new one will not be commercially viable and they will be subsidising it!

Total madness if it can't wash its face why bother

 

[Sick Boy]

There you go again blaming external agencies for the clubs failures. Utterly pathetic.

Perhaps you should wake up & smell the coffee. Where is CCFC's plan, indeed is there one?

They have made no progress on any of their plans, no stadium, no new academy site, (so far) no efficient ticketing system, they are like a sailboat becalmed while everybody else steams ahead.

Totally unsuitable owners, admit it.

Nearly as bad as moving a club 95 miles, eh.