Coventry Evening Telegraph. (20 Viewers)

[Moff]

The Press Police over bias reporting towards Wasps missed this.....

http://coventryobserver.co.uk/news/wasps-mascot-helps-explain-rules-rugby-coventry-youngsters/

Littke link to the Wasps website at the end of the article

Writing stuff like that really does make you look an arse. Why not just write it without that childish shit?

 

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[skybluetony176]

Err...because it wasn't for sale to ccfc. #thickasshit

Never tested as no offer was ever made by the club to CCC. You have to put the horse before the cart.

#statingthebleedingobvious

 

[skybluetony176]

Regarding the observer article they didn't collude with the council to suppress news. You seem to miss that point entirely. Behaviour like that will lead to suspicions and accusations. For example if you were a convicted thief and something went missing. People would suspect. Would you not agree? Or maybe the answer is the club have said they would not have done the wasps deal.

You know all these stories that the CT suppressed? Were they in the Observer at the time when the CT should have reported them?

 

[Nick]

You know all these stories that the CT suppressed? Were they in the Observer at the time when the CT should have reported them?

It depends if they knew about them or not doesn't it?

Is that the new defence, if it was in the Observer or not?

 

[Grendel]

Looks like Tony has had a sleep over at Italias this weekend.

Yawn.

 

[skybluetony176]

Wouldn't quiet conversations like that be double dealing - something everyone on here seem to get up in arms about? :thinking about:

But I think we have established that guidelines are just that, an indication of best practice it doesn't mean they are appropriate in every instance or even binding. Also whilst an open sales process we would all feel was desirable the regulations and case law permit a sale to a particular party (wasn't that what was going on in 2012 & 2013 between CCC and SISU? ).

I think we are also coming round to the notion that the guidelines for land and property might not apply to a sale of unquoted shares in the same way.

Which ever way you look at it there was fault on many sides and it is a matter of degree where we as individuals place the proportionality of that blame. Bottom line is that CCFC lost out in the process acted out between CCC and SISU and the club will never get that loss back

Don't all the guidelines say best value not best price? If Wasps were willing to take on the council loan in it's entirety would that represent best value for the taxpayer as the only real monies outstanding to the taxpayer was paid back in full? Of course we'll never really know what SISU would or wouldn't have offered as they chose not to put themselves in that position. However you could reference the figures quoted in the JR as to what they thought they could buy the YB loan for as an indication. Maybe the loan rather than the purchase price is what TF alludes to when he says they wouldn't have done the deal Wasps did? What is SISU's record on purchasing debt? Do they usually pay full price for it?

 

[skybluetony176]

It depends if they knew about them or not doesn't it?

Is that the new defence, if it was in the Observer or not?

Does it? There's no other possibilities? Certainly when you look at stories like prince William serving in Afghanistan it took collusion with the press as a whole to suppress that story. Is the same not possible here? Fair enough they didn't have a hack of LR's calibre on the payroll at the time but are you really suggesting that all these stories were going on under their noses without a sniff allowing the CT to suppress them on their own?

 

[Nick]

Does it? There's no other possibilities? Certainly when you look at stories like prince William serving in Afghanistan it took collusion with the press as a whole to suppress that story. Is the same not possible here? Fair enough they didn't have a hack of LR's calibre on the payroll at the time but are you really suggesting that all these stories were going on under their noses without a sniff allowing the CT to suppress them on their own?

How is the telegraph reporting of Phil Townsend going?

I'd say the Observer didn't really know about it at the time, what would you say?

 

[skybluetony176]

How is the telegraph reporting of Phil Townsend going?

I'd say the Observer didn't really know about it at the time, what would you say?

Couldn't tell you. Only really read the stories in the CT when a link has been added to this site.

Not saying anything. Just pointing out that if you want to suppress a story in the press it typically requires collusion from more than one outlet, using the Prince Harry story as an example.

 

[chiefdave]

Whereabouts CD?

Its on there somewhere, god knows where - their site is not the easiest to find things. From what I recall CCC, and most other councils, have guidelines which are basically an easier to digest version of various parts of the Local Government Act. At the end of the day the ownership structure of ACL means they can get away with not applying those guidelines but for me it gives a clear indication of what the 'correct' process would have been.

The Press Police over bias reporting towards Wasps missed this.....
http://coventryobserver.co.uk/news/wasps-mascot-helps-explain-rules-rugby-coventry-youngsters/

The thing I take from that is that Wasps are having to explain the game to people, you don't have that problem with football.

The club have said they would not have done the Wasps deal

Yet they submitted a bid that matched Wasps :thinking about:

Despite the fact that access to critical documentation was denied, the liquidator’s offer for the charity’s 50 per cent stake in the Ricoh Arena was generous – around £2.8 million

You know all these stories that the CT suppressed? Were they in the Observer at the time when the CT should have reported them?

You would have to ask the question of the Observer as to if they knew of the story. What seems to have happened is that Les Reid got hold of the story, CCC then moved to suppress it which led to Reid's sudden disappearance.

 

[skybluetony176]

Its on there somewhere, god knows where - their site is not the easiest to find things. From what I recall CCC, and most other councils, have guidelines which are basically an easier to digest version of various parts of the Local Government Act. At the end of the day the ownership structure of ACL means they can get away with not applying those guidelines but for me it gives a clear indication of what the 'correct' process would have been.

I think what you're referring to is the disposal of land and sites for development. The ownership structure of ACL doesn't come into it. The act is just not relevant. Maybe if car park C had been involved it would.

 

[oldskyblue58]

The administrator bid for the Charity shares only. Neither SISU nor the administrator bid for the CCC shares at that time. The charity is not governed by the same regulations, guidelines etc as a Local authority.

I believe the Charity gave their reasons for rejecting the administrators bid on their website. It never got as far as any veto etc being operated

To be honest the administrator bidding seemed wrong and contrived to me. I always felt that they bid but knew it would be rejected - but that's just my own opinion at the time

 

[chiefdave]

The administrator bid for the Charity shares only.

But surely the fact that a bid was put in makes a nonsense of Fisher claiming they wouldn't have done the same deal as Wasps.

 

[oldskyblue58]

could do but not necessarily. But given what we all had figured out at the time I could suggest that he might have known the bid had a good chance of being rejected. In which case you might have to question the purpose of the bid, then his comment about not doing the deal Wasps did is not so contradictory

 

[Captain Dart]

IYet they submitted a bid that matched Wasps :thinking about:

The details of that deal was covered by confidentiality clauses, so how do you think SISU knew what they were?

I agree with OSB, the bid was going to be rejected and the submission was for forms sake. By that stage things had gone too far & the charity wasn't going to jeopardise the Wasps deal or risk dealing with SISU.

 

[Moff]

We do care.
However we know why we are here and understand we need to make the most of a poor situation.

You can whinge on forever but at some point you need to move on.
We can have a 'drive everyone to the bottom' attitude but its achieves nothing.

I know you were responding to Torchy, but I find it a bit ironic you telling him he cant whinge forever when you can clearly display plenty of it yourself.

You keep telling everyone to move on, what to? Wasps and SISU union, hardly a marriage made in heaven? You seem to think it will be some sort of utopia, I think you will be hugely disappointed.

 

[skybluetony176]

But surely the fact that a bid was put in makes a nonsense of Fisher claiming they wouldn't have done the same deal as Wasps.

Either that or it makes a nonsense of the bid.

I still think (and I know its supposition but as always that's all we have) that it's specifically in regards to the loan. As far as I can tell SISU's business is about debt restructuring (well, that and litigation ) and if another company is willing to take over without the restructuring of the debt why would SISU be interested in that deal?

 

[oldskyblue58]

According to the Charity website The liquidator of CCFC Ltd was contacted by the Charity 08/10/2014 and asked to submit a bid for the Charity shares in ACL, the Charity honouring the terms of the option agreement from 2003. So that would seem to imply CCFC/Otium/sisu were not being that proactive about making a bid until that point. The Liquidators bid was rejected 14/11/2014

 

[dongonzalos]

Its on there somewhere, god knows where - their site is not the easiest to find things. From what I recall CCC, and most other councils, have guidelines which are basically an easier to digest version of various parts of the Local Government Act. At the end of the day the ownership structure of ACL means they can get away with not applying those guidelines but for me it gives a clear indication of what the 'correct' process would have been.



The thing I take from that is that Wasps are having to explain the game to people, you don't have that problem with football.


Yet they submitted a bid that matched Wasps :thinking about:





You would have to ask the question of the Observer as to if they knew of the story. What seems to have happened is that Les Reid got hold of the story, CCC then moved to suppress it which led to Reid's sudden disappearance.

Doesn't sound like they matched Wasps offer.....

“Notwithstanding the history of Sisu’s behaviour, the Trustees considered carefully the offer to purchase made by Otium through the Joint Liquidators of CCFC Ltd. In addition to the financial aspects of the offers, the Trustees considered all other factors.

“Amongst other factors considered, the Wasps offer was unconditional; the Otium offer was conditional. The Wasps offer requires in effect nothing of the Trustees other than the transfer of the shares.

 

[chiefdave]

“Amongst other factors considered, the Wasps offer was unconditional; the Otium offer was conditional. The Wasps offer requires in effect nothing of the Trustees other than the transfer of the shares.

"Should our offer be accepted, we think it will be an important moment not only for the charity and the club but also for the community in Coventry.
"In order to seize this opportunity and make the most of it for the benefit of everyone involved we propose an extraordinary and revolutionary partnership between the club and the charity.
"The objective of the partnership will be to use the power of football to raise aspirations and improve the life chances of those in the local community in Coventry, helping to achieve the Higgs Charity’s charitable objectives and the club’s ambition for the community.
"We have set out seven broad and far reaching community initiatives that are at the heart of our proposed partnership.
"We hope that these proposals can work as a springboard for our detailed discussions about how we can work together for the benefit of Coventry."

Seven 'Pillars of Partnership' are then listed and include:
1. To use the Ricoh Arena as the community hub to deliver various community programmes - a communiversity style approach.
2. To establish a communiversity at The Ricoh based on football, sports, leisure and tourism. The Ricoh could be home to a library, adult learning classes, a Communi-café, ICT suite, a recording studio and, of course, remain available as a conference facility.
3. To develop a multi-partnership with third parties to deliver wide-ranging community work. This will include developing innovative programmes with all front line services including the police, fire services, health services and employment agencies. The aim will be for all those involved to play an active role in improving the lives of all those participating in the programmes.
4. To assist in building links with schools, FE colleges and universities. Special emphasis will be given to under-privileged children and those with disabilities. Football, sports, music and the arts programmes will engage with those groups and individuals most at risk of social exclusion.
5. To tackle health and more specifically obesity issues working with the NHS/PCT/Local Council. This will be achieved with a ‘cradle to grave’ ethos and culture in which people of all ages will be given an opportunity to learn how to lead healthier lives.
6. To tackle crime in the local community working with the police and community safety groups by targeting specific areas of anti-social behaviour and juvenile crime. Football and sports projects will be delivered in the most challenging estates and postcodes to the most vulnerable people; to move them away from a life of crime towards more positive and productive activities.
7. To create pathways to employment by developing links with the LEP and local employers. This will be achieved through a “Skills for Life” programme that will be designed to attract the under achieving, under qualified and those not in education employment or training (NEET). Initial engagement would work through sport (particularly football), music and the arts first level courses and programmes.

 

[dongonzalos]

They will be doing all that whilst still building a new stadium?
The new stadium was to be built whatever happens with the offer remember?

 

[skybluetony176]

They will be doing all that whilst still building a new stadium?
The new stadium was to be built whatever happens with the offer remember?

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-owners-reveal-details-8112794

Plus it was TF who said it and we all know TF only tells the truth when suits so it must all be lies. Or is that the truth? I'm sure someone can confirm which one it is today.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

You two are on top form today. Wasted on here.

 

[Sick Boy]

You keep telling everyone to move on, what to? Wasps and SISU union, hardly a marriage made in heaven? You seem to think it will be some sort of utopia, I think you will be hugely disappointed.

He has a history of worshipping hedge funds, so it shouldn't be a surprise that he would want us to be jointly owned by two of them.

Bizarrely he has a problem with one who moved a team temporarily 35 miles but seems to hold a club that moves 95 miles as great owners.

 

[Captain Dart]

They will be doing all that whilst still building a new stadium?
The new stadium was to be built whatever happens with the offer remember?

Don't be silly, it will be built in 2 months, not long to wait now.
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-chief-left-ricoh-3869400

 

[italiahorse]

He has a history of worshipping hedge funds, so it shouldn't be a surprise that he would want us to be jointly owned by two of them.

Bizarrely he has a problem with one who moved a team temporarily 35 miles but seems to hold a club that moves 95 miles as great owners.

The issue here is acceptance.
It's happened. We are not happy.
What can we do ?
Nothing, so we need to move on.
The best we can hope for now is mutual benefits.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

Acceptance to what point? Season tickets and merchandise? Mutual benefits? Shared car park revenue? Why don't you move on telling people to move on.

 

[chiefdave]

What can we do ?

We can not buy Wasps tickets, merchandise or support them in any way.

 

[skybluetony176]

We can not buy Wasps tickets, merchandise or support them in any way.

Not very realistic though Dave. You could argue going to watch CCFC supports them as the club pays them for use of the Ricoh, we buy carparking tickets (maybe we should all go and park at Italia's car park ), buy f & B when inside (remember CCFC get some benefit from this to), use the casino and other facilities at the Ricoh before and after games.

I agree with not supporting them directly with buying tickets (although according to some on here they give them all away for free) or merchandise but we are always going to have to support them in some way.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Not very realistic though Dave. You could argue going to watch CCFC supports them as the club pays them for use of the Ricoh, we buy carparking tickets (maybe we should all go and park at Italia's car park ), buy f & B when inside (remember CCFC get some benefit from this to), use the casino and other facilities at the Ricoh before and after games.

I agree with not supporting them directly with buying tickets (although according to some on here they give them all away for free) or merchandise but we are always going to have to support them in some way.

This is what I'm highly uncomfortable with, full-stop.

At some stage, I'll reach the tipping point of what's acceptable to me, and I fear it's not far away.

 

[olderskyblue]

This is what I'm highly uncomfortable with, full-stop.

At some stage, I'll reach the tipping point of what's acceptable to me, and I fear it's not far away.

Come on NW, Italia's car park can't be that bad, and it's not far away either...

 

[skybluetony176]

This is what I'm highly uncomfortable with, full-stop.

At some stage, I'll reach the tipping point of what's acceptable to me, and I fear it's not far away.

I know where you're coming from. I rarely use the carpark, usualy use the metal fabricators car park for a fiver unless it's full (once this season). Sorry but i like a hot chocolate and chocolate bar at half time but i take some comfort in he fact that the club take something from it. Only been in the casino once this year and that was because we went on one after the game and caught the train back.

Unfortuantly that's where we are though. The only real option we have is get the best long term deal out of our landlords that serves the club as much as possible and live with it. You haven't got to like it, just put up with it. You're putting yourself on a hidding to nowhere otherwise.

 

[italiahorse]

We can not buy Wasps tickets, merchandise or support them in any way.

This drive to the bottom drives me potty.

The CCFC can't have it so nobody can attitude !!!

If we ever get rid of Wasps then what ? Back to Sisu stressing ACL.? Looking forward to that again.

I'm over it and Enjoying life.
Trying to enjoy CCFC and certainly enjoying participating in Wasps success.

Touring the UK in the week and back at weekend for Football and Rugby.

Try it, you might like it.
Don't forget Rugby tickets are free

 

[Deleted member 5849]

The CCFC can't have it so nobody can attitude !!!

Culture should be linked to place.

Detaching the links of place with heritage end up speeding up a race to the bottom. It is better to focus on the heritage and tradition that goes into giving a place depth.

 

[Moff]

This drive to the bottom drives me potty.

The CCFC can't have it so nobody can attitude !!!

If we ever get rid of Wasps then what ? Back to Sisu stressing ACL.? Looking forward to that again.

I'm over it and Enjoying life.
Trying to enjoy CCFC and certainly enjoying participating in Wasps success.

Touring the UK in the week and back at weekend for Football and Rugby.

Try it, you might like it.
Don't forget Rugby tickets are free

I think your demeaning attitude to everyone, that if the dont like Wasps they arent enjoying life, is wearing a bit thin. Time to give it a rest.

I love life, really enjoy it but I still wish wasps would f*ck off back to London, and dont particularly like the Ricoh.

The reason I still enjoy life is I am mature enough to make decisions based on what I know and how I feel, without letting it affect other things in my life. Its having a broad outlook and the intelligence to seperate things in life.

I am sure you have that intelliegnce too, but not when you keep talking to people like some sad old teacher telling them that they must get over it to enjoy life.

I dont need to tour the UK every week, although do travel extensively, nor do I probably have the riches you seem to enjoy letting us know you make from the car parking, thats your life not everyone elses, and it feels like you are trying to boast your way to that 'happiness' I am happy with my life without that, and without wasps thanks.

I am sure there are things that you dont like in life, but I am equally sure that you can also enjoy it as well, just like th rest of us.