Coventry Evening Telegraph. (51 Viewers)

[Grendel]

I think your demeaning attitude to everyone, that if the dont like Wasps they arent enjoying life, is wearing a bit thin. Time to give it a rest.

I love life, really enjoy it but I still wish wasps would f*ck off back to London, and dont particularly like the Ricoh.

The reason I still enjoy life is I am mature enough to make decisions based on what I know and how I feel, without letting it affect other things in my life. Its having a broad outlook and the intelligence to seperate things in life.

I am sure you have that intelliegnce too, but not when you keep talking to people like some sad old teacher telling them that they must get over it to enjoy life.

I dont need to tour the UK every week, although do travel extensively, nor do I probably have the riches you seem to enjoy letting us know you make from the car parking, thats your life not everyone elses, and it feels like you are trying to boast your way to that 'happiness' I am happy with my life without that, and without wasps thanks.

I am sure there are things that you dont like in life, but I am equally sure that you can also enjoy it as well, just like th rest of us.

I'm sure you'll be pleased to know their latest marketing talks about a midlands derby against the Saints.

 

---

[Moff]

I'm sure you'll be pleased to know their latest marketing talks about a midlands derby against the Saints.

They will get the same derision off Saints fans about being a 'Midlands' team as they do from the Tigers. There is only one local derby that counts to the Saints, and it will never be Wasps, who are seen as a London team, currently based in the Midlands.

 

[chiefdave]

I know where you're coming from. I rarely use the carpark, usualy use the metal fabricators car park for a fiver unless it's full (once this season). Sorry but i like a hot chocolate and chocolate bar at half time but i take some comfort in he fact that the club take something from it. Only been in the casino once this year and that was because we went on one after the game and caught the train back.

Not advocating some NOPMesque campaign or anything like that. Mainly just tickets and merchandise really. It may not make a different toil the move is ultimately a success or not but IMO its the right thing to do. Attending their games just condones their move and allows them to shout about attendance figures and ticket revenues. Would they be able to claim the move was a success if there was only a couple of thousand turning up every game?

This drive to the bottom drives me potty.

The CCFC can't have it so nobody can attitude !!!

Not a drive to the bottom or anything to do with if CCFC can't have it nobody can. As far as I'm concerned the move should not have been allowed by the rugby authorities, should not have been encouraged by CCC, Higgs and ACL and should not be endorsed by the people of Coventry.

To be honest I think its embarrassing the way people have turned out to support Wasps and done a complete u-turn on their views on teams playing outside of their home city. How people can go from marching through the streets protesting at a temporary move out of the city to welcoming Wasps with open arms is beyond me.

 

[skybluetony176]

Not advocating some NOPMesque campaign or anything like that. Mainly just tickets and merchandise really. It may not make a different toil the move is ultimately a success or not but IMO its the right thing to do. Attending their games just condones their move and allows them to shout about attendance figures and ticket revenues. Would they be able to claim the move was a success if there was only a couple of thousand turning up every game? .

Don't disagree with you there at all Dave. It's the same reason I don't go and the same reason I didn't go to Sixfields.

 

[Otis]

Going to Sixfields was entirely wrong, and so too, by the same token, is going to Wasps.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

Not in italia world

 

[skybluetony176]

Not in italia world

He ain't the only one. Some hide behind the excuse that Sixfields was the temporary move the same way Italia hides behind the excuse that Wasps move is permanent. Rather ironically the former are some of the most judgemental against Italia.

 

[Otis]

He ain't the only one. Some hide behind the excuse that Sixfields was the temporary move the same way Italia hides behind the excuse that Wasps move is permanent. Rather ironically the former are some of the most judgemental against Italia.

I try not to get involved with these things anymore, because it has become very tiresome, but it is as plain as the nose on your face.

They SAID it was only temporary.

They also said though that there was no way they were coming back to the Ricoh. That boat had sailed.

We all know they were NOT going to build a new stadium.

Doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to work out, if they weren't building a new stadium and weren't coming back to the Ricoh, how was Sixifelds only temporary?

They said temporary, but we all knew that if they weren't coming back, it was going to be anything but temporary!

 

[italiahorse]

Going to Sixfields was entirely wrong, and so too, by the same token, is going to Wasps.

Moving to Sixfields was wrong going wasn't.

Wasps moving to Coventry was wrong going isn't.

 

[Otis]

Moving to Sixfields was wrong going wasn't.

Wasps moving to Coventry was wrong going isn't.

Isn't going, condoning the move that was wrong?

 

[Nick]

He ain't the only one. Some hide behind the excuse that Sixfields was the temporary move the same way Italia hides behind the excuse that Wasps move is permanent. Rather ironically the former are some of the most judgemental against Italia.

It was temporary, it would have been up until an announcement / plan saying otherwise. It was only agreed as temporary with the FL also wasn't it? As I have said over and over, the moment they announced it was for good or we would be moving to Daventry then it wouldn't be temporary.

I said I would go if it was temporary before, during and after but the moment it came out as full time or confirmation it would be full time somewhere else I would be done with football. That is without hindsight.


The difference is that I was watching the team I have supported since I was 4 or 5 during a temporary move, I didn't bang on and on about my morals and principles and drop them as soon as a team I have no affinity with came along.

 

[Nick]

I try not to get involved with these things anymore, because it has become very tiresome, but it is as plain as the nose on your face.

They SAID it was only temporary.

They also said though that there was no way they were coming back to the Ricoh. That boat had sailed.

We all know they were NOT going to build a new stadium.

Doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to work out, if they weren't building a new stadium and weren't coming back to the Ricoh, how was Sixifelds only temporary?

They said temporary, but we all knew that if they weren't coming back, it was going to be anything but temporary!

So we didn't believe them about a new stadium but we did that they weren't coming back? It was only agreed as temporary, the FL were only going to allow temporary. Until there was an official announcement saying "We are now moving to xxx forever" then it was temporary, which it turns out it actually was.

 

[skybluetony176]

Isn't going, condoning the move that was wrong?

Exactly right, in both cases.

 

[skybluetony176]

It was temporary, it would have been up until an announcement / plan saying otherwise. It was only agreed as temporary with the FL also wasn't it? As I have said over and over, the moment they announced it was for good or we would be moving to Daventry then it wouldn't be temporary.

I said I would go if it was temporary before, during and after but the moment it came out as full time or confirmation it would be full time somewhere else I would be done with football. That is without hindsight.


The difference is that I was watching the team I have supported since I was 4 or 5 during a temporary move, I didn't bang on and on about my morals and principles and drop them as soon as a team I have no affinity with came along.

Sounds like something Italia would have said had he gone to Sixfields. The comparison is obvious.

 

[Nick]

Sounds like something Italia would have said had he gone to Sixfields. The comparison is obvious.

The difference is:

temporary - lasting for only a limited period of time; not permanent.
permanent - lasting or intended to last or remain unchanged indefinitely.

Had it been permanent, I'd certainly have never gone and I bet a few more wouldn't have either. Had Wasps moved for a couple of seasons while they sorted their shit out down south then that would be different too wouldn't it?

 

[Otis]

So we didn't believe them about a new stadium but we did that they weren't coming back? It was only agreed as temporary, the FL were only going to allow temporary. Until there was an official announcement saying "We are now moving to xxx forever" then it was temporary, which it turns out it actually was.

Disagree Nick. Not a case of believing them over the new stadium. We just knew that it was logistically not going to happen.

If your next door neighbour said they were going to the moon it wouldn't be a case of just not believing them, you would also know it wasn't possibly going to happen.

The coming back here was feasible. The building of a new stadium was not feasible.

The only thing to believe or not believe them on was the returning to Coventry and on that Tim Fisher was adamant.

I really don't think it is anything to do with believing them on one thing and not on the other. One was never going to happen, while the option was feasible but the club were saying it just wasn't going to happen.

Big difference for me.

 

[Nick]

I really don't think it is anything to do with believing them on one thing and not on the other. One was never going to happen, while the option was feasible but the club were saying it just wasn't going to happen.

Big difference for me.

Where was it confirmed we were moving to for good? Sixfields was only ever agreed as temporary wasn't it? The FL would only allow temporary.

I am trying to say it without hindsight also, as I did say many times if it ever went full time I'd be done.

 

[skybluetony176]

The difference is:

temporary - lasting for only a limited period of time; not permanent.
permanent - lasting or intended to last or remain unchanged indefinitely.

Had it been permanent, I'd certainly have never gone and I bet a few more wouldn't have either.

You and others also constantly say things like wasps didn't need to move to Coventry permanently because they could have gone to this available site or this available stadium in London. Well, we didn't need a temporary move to Sixfields, there was a temporary agreement in Coventry should the clubs owners wished to pursue that course of action. They didn't and took us on an unnecessary move to Sixfields instead. You went and by doing so condoned the temporary move that the club gained nothing from. Same as Italia condones the permanent move of wasps by going. To try and claim anything else is hypocrisy.

 

[skybluetony176]

Where was it confirmed we were moving to for good? Sixfields was only ever agreed as temporary wasn't it? The FL would only allow temporary.

I am trying to say it without hindsight also, as I did say many times if it ever went full time I'd be done.

Regardless you still condoned the move by going to Sixfields the same as Italia condones the wasps move by going to see them at the Ricoh.

We gained nothing from Sixfields and lost alot and that was only ever going to be the case. No hindsight was needed to see that. It was stupidity to move the club there temporary or permenant and you condoned stupidity by playing along with the folly.

 

[Otis]

Where was it confirmed we were moving to for good? Sixfields was only ever agreed as temporary wasn't it? The FL would only allow temporary.

I am trying to say it without hindsight also, as I did say many times if it ever went full time I'd be done.

As I say Nick, I am tired of the same old thing and I usually keep well away from these threads. It is just stuff regurgitated ad nauseum.

Can only state my own stance. The new stadium was never going to happen and I nailed my colours to the mast on that right from the day it was first mooted.

Coming back home to the Ricoh was feasible. That was just the club though saying it was never going to happen.

I can only reiterate, to my mind, one option was feasible the other wasn't and that is why even though they said temporary, if they weren't coming back to the Ricoh that temporary was going to end up as one hell of a long time and the FL would have buckled on it for sure and extended the timescale of how long the club could be away.

To me the 'temporary' was a smokescreen and it all came down to whether the club were going to dig their heels in and maintain they weren't coming back to the Ricoh.

If that was to be the case we had nowhere to go.

 

[Nick]

Regardless you still condoned the move by going to Sixfields the same as Italia condones the wasps move by going to see them at the Ricoh.

We gained nothing from Sixfields and lost alot and that was only ever going to be the case. No hindsight was needed to see that. It was stupidity to move the club there temporary or permenant and you condoned stupidity by playing along with the folly.

I was willing to go there to support my team while it was temporary, if it had changed then I wouldn't have.

If Italia has supported Wasps his whole life and wasn't having a go at people at went to Sixfields then I would agree with you.

As I've said, I have no issue with people going to watch Wasps. If a lifelong Rugby fan from Coventry wants to go and enjoys it then fair play to them, I only have digs when it is people who kept flexing their morality muscles at Sixfields.

 

[Otis]

I think everyone is now pretty much entrenched in their positions. Can't really see the point into continuing to argue the toss.

You're not going to change Italia's viewpoint. He's not going to change yours.

I hope Wasps fail, but I think they are other things much more worth talking about.

At the moment it's like a hard-line Tory trying to convert a militant leftie and vice versa.

 

[lordsummerisle]

At the moment it's like a hard-line Tory trying to convert a militant leftie and vice versa.

IDS apparently has converted!

 

[Nick]

I think everyone is now pretty much entrenched in their positions. Can't really see the point into continuing to argue the toss.

You're not going to change Italia's viewpoint. He's not going to change yours.

I hope Wasps fail, but I think they are other things much more worth talking about.

At the moment it's like a hard-line Tory trying to convert a militant leftie and vice versa.

I agree it is down to personal boundaries and how far would people accept. The difference is though lots of people were telling other people what they should and shouldn't think and what they should and shouldn't do which is now why when they do the opposite people pull them up on it.

Some people would stop going if Wasps bought us tomorrow, I would still go as long as we were coventry city and not Wasps FC in black and yellow. Just an example. (not trying to turn it into a wasps ownership thread, just a personal limit example)

 

[Otis]

I agree it is down to personal boundaries and how far would people accept. The difference is though lots of people were telling other people what they should and shouldn't think and what they should and shouldn't do which is now why when they do the opposite people pull them up on it.

Some people would stop going if Wasps bought us tomorrow, I would still go as long as we were coventry city and not Wasps FC in black and yellow. Just an example. (not trying to turn it into a wasps ownership thread, just a personal limit example)

Yep, agree with you. There's some right dodgy owners out there in the football world and if Wasps bought us I would still go up.

My hope then in that scenario would be that in time we could turn the tables on them.

In an ideal world I probably wouldn't go, but in the arena of football there are so many owners of clubs that are ..let's say, not ideal and that's the world we occupy!

 

[skybluetony176]

I was willing to go there to support my team while it was temporary, if it had changed then I wouldn't have.

If Italia has supported Wasps his whole life and wasn't having a go at people at went to Sixfields then I would agree with you.

As I've said, I have no issue with people going to watch Wasps. If a lifelong Rugby fan from Coventry wants to go and enjoys it then fair play to them, I only have digs when it is people who kept flexing their morality muscles at Sixfields.

Whatever. You still condoned the move to Sixfield by attendining the same way as Italia condones the Wasps move by attending. You may both have different reasons but the basic principle is the same.

 

[Nick]

Whatever. You still condoned the move to Sixfield by attendining the same way as Italia condones the Wasps move by attending. You may both have different reasons but the basic principle is the same.

Can you point me to where I abuse people who go to Wasps (apart from digs at certain people who loved to give it out)? Go on about people being spineless? Go on about my morals etc?

A lot of people go to watch Wasps, I haven't had a go at them or try to tell them they are wrong.

That is why Italia gets pointed out, as he did that. Whereas Big Dave from down the Rugger Club hasn't been lecturing people about their morals daily, so I for one certainly wouldn't have a go if he wanted to go and watch Wasps.

 

[skybluetony176]

Can you point me to where I abuse people who go to Wasps (apart from digs at certain people who loved to give it out)? Go on about people being spineless? Go on about my morals etc?

A lot of people go to watch Wasps, I haven't had a go at them or try to tell them they are wrong.

That is why Italia gets pointed out, as he did that. Whereas Big Dave from down the Rugger Club hasn't been lecturing people about their morals daily, so I for one certainly wouldn't have a go if he wanted to go and watch Wasps.

I never said you did, although apparently because it's Italia he's fair game to you.

If you read what I said, i said that your reasoning might be different but the basic principle applies in that you both codone the moves by attending. I didn't mention anything about a dick swinging competition based on why it was OK for you to attend Sixfields and wrong for Italia to attend wasps games.

 

[Grendel]

I never said you did, although apparently because it's Italia he's fair game to you.

If you read what I said, i said that your reasoning might be different but the basic principle applies in that you both codone the moves by attending. I didn't mention anything about a dick swinging competition based on why it was OK for you to attend Sixfields and wrong for Italia to attend wasps games.

So anyone attending games at the Ricoh condones Sisu and their approach as owners of the club?

 

[skybluetony176]

So anyone attending games at the Ricoh condones Sisu and their approach as owners of the club?

I wouldn't have thought so. So anyone paying council tax in Coventry condones the sale of the Ricoh to wasps? Take a day off. You don't have to be a prat everyday of your life.

 

[Grendel]

I wouldn't have thought so. So anyone paying council tax in Coventry condones the sale of the Ricoh to wasps? Take a day off. You don't have to be a prat everyday of your life.

But you are saying those went to Northampton then they condone the move by the owners and buy into the strategy. So surely those who attend CCFC games at the Ricoh are condoning the owners strategy now. What is the difference?

Council tax payers have a legal obligation to pay council tax so that is a desperately inappropriate analogy I'm afraid. They cannot opt out if they do not agree with a strategy.

 

[italiahorse]

Just for the record I never had a go at anybody for going to Sixfields. Nick keeps saying it to suit his Wasps arguments and you guys believe it.

I only pointed out that Sisu's plan for obtaining the Ricoh under their terms relied on the team being in Northampton and fans being seen to support that.

 

[Grendel]

Just for the record I never had a go at anybody for going to Sixfields. Nick keeps saying it to suit his Wasps arguments and you guys believe it.

I only pointed out that Sisu's plan for obtaining the Ricoh under their terms relied on the team being in Northampton and fans being seen to support that.

You took a moral stance against those who attended

 

[skybluetony176]

But you are saying those went to Northampton then they condone the move by the owners and buy into the strategy. So surely those who attend CCFC games at the Ricoh are condoning the owners strategy now. What is the difference?

Council tax payers have a legal obligation to pay council tax so that is a desperately inappropriate analogy I'm afraid. They cannot opt out if they do not agree with a strategy.

I guess this means you're going to stop berating Italia for attending Wasps games then? No, I didn't think so.

There's a big difference between supporting your club at it's home ground and supporting an unnecessary (from the clubs point of view) move to Northampton by attending. It was worse than that. With the exception of 1 lady on 1 occasion as far as I know not one person attending protested about it while they were there. Condone is an understatement.

 

[Grendel]

I guess this means you're going to stop berating Italia for attending Wasps games then? No, I didn't think so.

There's a big difference between supporting your club at it's home ground and supporting an unnecessary (from the clubs point of view) move to Northampton by attending. It was worse than that. With the exception of 1 lady on 1 occasion as far as I know not one person attending protested about it while they were there. Condone is an understatement.

I berate Italia as he gets a direct financial benefit for wasps matches and that is the reason for his slavish support. If he had acknowledged this at the start this would have been at least seen for what it was. There was of course also his slavish support for Sisu when oddly they were the only car park revenue in town. His angst at them leaving one could suggest is mainly due to financial impact.

Your last sentence is intriguing. So, if condone is an understatement what is your real opinion of supporters who attended Sixfields?