Brussels (19 Viewers)
- Thread starter Earlsdon_Skyblue1
- Start date
There is a difference between increased numbers and a cohesive threat. At the moment, the numbers of Muslims are still low as a percentage. They are increasing, but they are not gaining political or economic influence to match their numbers. In Germany, where I live, they do not do as well academically as other migrants, for example Vietnamese. Because of culture, not intelligence. Many live in a parallel society - some in a clan society. Others have small businesses, for example Döner shops or green grocers. You don't see many politicians or business leaders from the Muslim community.
I think we see and hear more of "bad" Muslims than the decent people who just want to live their lives. Maybe their descendants will reach a point where they are numerically in the majority in certain districts, but I expect ( imo ) Islam in Europe to change with the generations - if only out of self interest.
The CVs of the European terrorists usually ( not always ) include a stint in jail or some form of petty criminality. Crowds of chanting screaming idiots may look frightening, but at the end of the day, will Muslims as a whole really have the balls to destroy the economy of their chosen country of residence and replace it with a warrior and small farmer/ goat herd society thus making it into a society which their forefathers left behind for good reason.
at some point, the Muslim world will have had enough, as did the Christian world in the past. In Pakistan when there were extensive floods killing huge amounts of the poorest of the poor a few years ago, it was said that Allah had punished these people for their sins. The poor don't even have enough money to do any decent sinning. The more this crap goes on, the more likely it is that Islam gets to a point where it implodes. Yes, it may be wishful thinking, but I have faith in humanity evolving - it has done so up until now - at least in our part of the world.
Agree it will implode one day but not until huge damage has been done.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Won't call you anything but what you suggest is just plain wrong and will never work! Never ever work!
ghandi was right and eye for an eye leaves everyone blind or dead
What do you suggest?
Otis
Well-Known Member
Why not? All English football clubs got barred from Europe for the sake of a few individuals.
It's the same logic! Same as we all need to wear jackets and ties at posh restaurants.
That ideology what?
Calm down calm down la. Dem Italians pushed demselves under de wall. Not our fault
You see I kind of stuggle with the concept that if we just sit and keep dying and taking it up the arse that eventually they will get bored. I might be wrong
So what do you suggest we do?
Samo
Well-Known Member
So what would you suggest?
Samo
Well-Known Member
Could I just remind you that it was western aggression that radicalized them in the first place.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
I suggest we take responsibility for our actions!
We do not live in a vacuum - Our bombing of societies back to middle ages does not help secure our world! We need to find ways to live in peace with ourselves and one another.
Are there any examples of where this has happened?
Not perfect ones - no! Are there depressing ones where the cycle of death and hatred repeats and repeats based on who has the most power or the biggest guns? Yes! What did the USA expect? Those that live by the sword or atomic weapon will obviously die by the sword. Those that stir up hatred will reap the consequences of Hatred - UK too have the mentality of the school bully - someone treats us badly, we have the power so we squash them to make them pay. Leading to peace? Course it bloody well doesn't - it leads to resentment, hatred and revenge!
However we are all responsible for our actions - not what happens to us but how we react!
There are no worldwide solutions that don't start with me - Jackson was right about his man in the mirror! Once we have controlled our own needs for vengeance and revenge we can urge our leaders to seek better ways of dealing with difficult nuanced problems that require better answers than the playground
Until then we are screwed as the world is a mess of deep inequality, greed, injustice, envy and hatred and this will work itself out in devastating consequences until we can learn to live together for the common good
We do not live in a vacuum - Our bombing of societies back to middle ages does not help secure our world! We need to find ways to live in peace with ourselves and one another.
Are there any examples of where this has happened?
Not perfect ones - no! Are there depressing ones where the cycle of death and hatred repeats and repeats based on who has the most power or the biggest guns? Yes! What did the USA expect? Those that live by the sword or atomic weapon will obviously die by the sword. Those that stir up hatred will reap the consequences of Hatred - UK too have the mentality of the school bully - someone treats us badly, we have the power so we squash them to make them pay. Leading to peace? Course it bloody well doesn't - it leads to resentment, hatred and revenge!
However we are all responsible for our actions - not what happens to us but how we react!
There are no worldwide solutions that don't start with me - Jackson was right about his man in the mirror! Once we have controlled our own needs for vengeance and revenge we can urge our leaders to seek better ways of dealing with difficult nuanced problems that require better answers than the playground
Until then we are screwed as the world is a mess of deep inequality, greed, injustice, envy and hatred and this will work itself out in devastating consequences until we can learn to live together for the common good
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Reconciliation is the answer at every opportunity - to learn to live at peace with those around us - i don't mean fluffy peace that lives in unreality I mean the sort of seeking a common future by learning from the past. The best recent example probably is South Africa and the truth and reconciliation work that they sought to do. Perfect - far from it! Do they have one of the most violent nations on earth - absolutely! Do they have deep divisions between the have and have nots - absolutely.
Did they try to turn the history of the African country seeking to learn from past mistakes - absolutely - did it work to a point? Absolutely and the stories of forgiveness and reconciliation are extremely powerful ones
Maybe our world will never be at peace and the answer is to seek to be the most powerful and this is the wisdom of the age I fear
For me - my life has meaning in seeking to follow Jesus who laid down his life for his friends to seek a better way of living more abundantly - if that means that I am blown up by someone wishing to make me fear loving those around me - so be it - I don't control all the circumstances but I do control my actions and will take responsibility for those
Did they try to turn the history of the African country seeking to learn from past mistakes - absolutely - did it work to a point? Absolutely and the stories of forgiveness and reconciliation are extremely powerful ones
Maybe our world will never be at peace and the answer is to seek to be the most powerful and this is the wisdom of the age I fear
For me - my life has meaning in seeking to follow Jesus who laid down his life for his friends to seek a better way of living more abundantly - if that means that I am blown up by someone wishing to make me fear loving those around me - so be it - I don't control all the circumstances but I do control my actions and will take responsibility for those
I suggest that I hope this tactic works but I have my doubts. I don't think reconciliation is on their agenda.
Samo
Well-Known Member
I agree but it leaves us with a dilemma and maybe the truth is we're fucked either way.
Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to see them annihilated but I fear that it would not mean an end to this
So we are kind of asking for it. This is intetesting and I sense this feeling quite prominently at the current time almost to the point of smugness in some quarters. Its quite disturbing and I'm sure is picked up on by those higher up the organization designing these attacks
This is where we agree. I think we are screwed either away. This has been a very clever battle waged over a nunber of decades alongside rank incompetence in foreign policy
Think you will find myriad starting points.
Egypt in the 50's was a hotbed for terror and decapitation etc.
Was that in response to the creation of Israel or a Westward looking leader.
I'm firmly of the opinion post 911 that the two pals across the ponds sole intention was to fuck them up for a hundred years or more and have them fighting each other.
It looks like it Worked but for the overspill.
Now If they were smart enough to realise this I wonder what they could do?
Samo
Well-Known Member
That is NOT what I said. Just that you reap what you sow and we have been led into situations that were avoidable by those in power, Mr Blair, etc. We are now, to some extent at least, seeing the consequences of those actions.
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Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
M&B Stand
Well-Known Member
So chucking gays off buildings and stoning women to death can be blamed on western politicians, is that what you're saying?
Otis
Well-Known Member
Religion definitely plays a large part, despite what anyone says.
Don't understand the argument that IS are not religious.
If they didn't read passages from the Quran making them believe they are going to paradise as suicide bombers, maybe they would think twice before blowing themselves up.
If they believed this life we have was it, this was the end, you wouldn't get this endless list of recruits queuing up to kill themselves.
The West have interfered for sure, but the beliefs of some of these people are thousands of years out of date.
Samo
Well-Known Member
Oh jesus, have a word pal
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
It's a similar problem with the religious right in USA too. This life is important too
Samo
Well-Known Member
Why now then Otis? Coincidence?
Religious beliefs can be radicalized just like political beliefs.
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Otis
Well-Known Member
Agreed.
I don't know the answer to that. These people will say it is because of the treatment of Muslims and interference and support for Israel etc. etc., but at the same time they are more than happy to kill innocent Muslims too.
M&B Stand
Well-Known Member
What?
Samo
Well-Known Member
Ok, I'll bite...
No of course I'm not saying that. What I am saying is that there are many, many factors that have led to the current radicalization of more Muslims than was previously the case. Of course any culture than condone's such behavior is sick but... this polarization in political and religious thinking and the very existence of IS has been contributed to by many countries and many individuals. It it not a coincidence that this is happening now.
M&B Stand
Well-Known Member
See, wasn't that difficult was it. I wasn't after a bite, You've actually given a clear well thought out reply there. And for the most part agree with you. I didn't want us to go into Iraq, probably neither did those who are currently being scraped off the walls of Brussels airport check in area, so this whole we reap what we sow stuff I'm not having.