derbyskyblue
Well-Known Member
for 17% of income for the ricoh arena. Now wonder the council have told them to do one.
CCFC only account (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter derbyskyblue
- Start date
Depends on how the figures are played Derby ,our rent has been reduced and i would imagine the deal with compass has affected thhe the matchday take ,ie ;compass take matchday income from sales ,parking etc as part of their deal with ACL for which compass bid for when signing the deal with ACL,@£12.5m. per an.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
where did you get the £12.5m per annum figure from wingy? Last accounts only showed a total income of £6m. or is it that figure for 5 years or something?
Also Compass bid to cover the whole 365 day operation of the Ricoh not just the 25 or so CCFC match days.
Also Compass bid to cover the whole 365 day operation of the Ricoh not just the 25 or so CCFC match days.
they signed a ten year deal about three years ago OSB for£125m. has been difficult to determine which way the money went but either compass pay ACL £12.5m to operate the entire complex
and make on anything above that meaning ACl have a pretty simple portfolio to manage ,or ACL pay them £12.5m. to operate the complex and retain the £6m. surplus you refer to.this could potentially contribute to the 17% figure we've heard of today,isaw your figures the other day OSB and they made me wonder as i'm sure i recently saw two annual profit margins of around £4m. less £2.5m . for improvements .i'm hoping your analysis may make sense of this
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
the way i heard it Compass paid ACL for the right to operate the whole stadium I do not know the sums involved so will take the value you say. If it was an agreement for 10 years it would be income apportioned to ACL over the 10 years ie £1.25m pa but I thought the deal was more recent. However I think it is ACL that books the events and takes those fees - Compass take the margin on bar sales food services etc
As it is a 365 day operation then only around 7% (25days) of the fee paid to ACL by Compass relates to CCFC football operations (£88K) (little simplistic maybe but illustrates my point Compass do more than football events)
Total sales 2010 for ACL is just over £6m of which the £1.25m above would form part. That £1.25m would cover all days of operations not just football ones. From what I have been told by a supplier to the Ricoh the non football side has been getting more and more successful and is very busy - also picking up plenty of new business. I think it was the gent from Higgs Charity who said they were ranked 7th in the country for exhibitions and conferences and taking business from NEC, NIA etc
ACL have done what the football club does not - they set out plans and targets, and managed the business to achieve them. They have diversified the business so that they are not so at risk should one client go bump and have been clear with any one who asked about their business plans and targets.
Net profits 2010 from the accounts I have show £560K and previous year over £3m (but there was a particular reason for that due to a one off lease premium write off of £4m that increased profits)
The improvements are capital and appear on the balance sheet as part of fixed assets they are not a straight deduction from profits. I think 2010 there were approx £2.8m from memory with £800K to spend in 2011
Given the track record of the current board and the ones previous over the past decade I have no confidence at all that any of them could have achieved the results that the ACL Board have achieved. I think they would have been a self interested disaster
Thats the way I see it anyway - am happy to be corrected if someone knows more
As it is a 365 day operation then only around 7% (25days) of the fee paid to ACL by Compass relates to CCFC football operations (£88K) (little simplistic maybe but illustrates my point Compass do more than football events)
Total sales 2010 for ACL is just over £6m of which the £1.25m above would form part. That £1.25m would cover all days of operations not just football ones. From what I have been told by a supplier to the Ricoh the non football side has been getting more and more successful and is very busy - also picking up plenty of new business. I think it was the gent from Higgs Charity who said they were ranked 7th in the country for exhibitions and conferences and taking business from NEC, NIA etc
ACL have done what the football club does not - they set out plans and targets, and managed the business to achieve them. They have diversified the business so that they are not so at risk should one client go bump and have been clear with any one who asked about their business plans and targets.
Net profits 2010 from the accounts I have show £560K and previous year over £3m (but there was a particular reason for that due to a one off lease premium write off of £4m that increased profits)
The improvements are capital and appear on the balance sheet as part of fixed assets they are not a straight deduction from profits. I think 2010 there were approx £2.8m from memory with £800K to spend in 2011
Given the track record of the current board and the ones previous over the past decade I have no confidence at all that any of them could have achieved the results that the ACL Board have achieved. I think they would have been a self interested disaster
Thats the way I see it anyway - am happy to be corrected if someone knows more
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oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
have to see the website info to comment further wingy but I dont see how £12.5m pa can fit into the accounts I have seen as it stands.
Lord_Nampil
Well-Known Member
If i was looking to buy Coventry city, the first thing i would do is build a new ground away from the crooks at ACL!
Would it happen?? I dont know depends who the buyer was! But i dont like the way ACL have evolved into a company against the football club!
Seems to me they have never helped out even b4 sisu!!!
Least at highfield road we got all the money for parking and food! What do we get now???
Would it happen?? I dont know depends who the buyer was! But i dont like the way ACL have evolved into a company against the football club!
Seems to me they have never helped out even b4 sisu!!!
Least at highfield road we got all the money for parking and food! What do we get now???
http://www.caterersearch.com/Articl...25m-deal-at-coventry-city-fcs-ricoh-arena.htm
Heres the link OSB,one way or another it suggests turnover is much higher than £6m. When you consider this would make the 7% equate to £880,000 it sounds more pluasible the amount of staff on a matchday ,they'd have to take £35,000 on amatchday just to cover that 7%
Heres the link OSB,one way or another it suggests turnover is much higher than £6m. When you consider this would make the 7% equate to £880,000 it sounds more pluasible the amount of staff on a matchday ,they'd have to take £35,000 on amatchday just to cover that 7%
TheRoyalScam
Well-Known Member
:thinking about: I think you're living in a different reality here: ACL have proved that the Ricoh can be a success, whereas Richardson, McGinnity, Robinson and SISU have mismanaged CCFC for the last decade - why are you directing your anger at ACL? Why are they 'crooks'?! (I think this is potentially libellous, too.)
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
thanks wingy - good research! . certainly looks like its £125m. I just wonder if the £125m is the worth of the contract ie the amount of expected income Compass will get from it rather than the amount they actually pay to ACL. Looks like the deal went through March 2009 which would mean that the first year that the fee appeared in ACL accounts would have been 2010 - clearly there isnt £12.5m in those accounts. But I take your point about wages costs.
If they have received 12.5m then we should expect bumper results for 2011 accounts. No wonder the council would want to keep it and SISU would want so badly if true. However am still not convinced that was the fee - when you take that fee, add on the wages costs for their staff and any other costs and overheads you are looking at an annual turnover of something like £20m pa just to break even from bar sales, catering, car parks etc (rents going to ACL direct - am assuming that) - thats £200m over ten years. Could the Ricoh do that ?
Also it mentions the hotel in the article - I thought De Vere hotels ran that ?
Guess we will know more when we see the 2011 accounts
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
That would be a stadium out of Coventry then would it? as council unlikely to grant planning permission for another stadium..... aside from the small matter of actually financing it! or the time delays involved!
Every single interview with the Council, ACL or Higgs Charity has stressed how much they want CCFC to succeed and to be at the Arena how is that against the football club? It isnt their fault that Board after Board have stripped the club of its assets by mismanagement and greed. CCFC is a private company - neither ACL, Council, nor the Charity created the financial mess that meant they couldnt finance the build or repurchase the stadium that was the likes of GR, BR, SISU etc. THe Boards of directors at CCFC took the decisions to create this situation they could have made other decisions but chose to overspend get into debt and repeatedly take us to the brink of oblivion !
ACL have done nothing more than manage the Arena properly and in so doing create a successful business. Something that CCFC could certainly learn from, because the contrast is stark between the two companies. A succesful well run profit making diversified company as against a loss making debt ridden shambles. ACL owe CCFC nor SISU nothing. The rent charged is reasonable compared to many similar grounds. I would bet at times it has been paid late too - you try doing that in the real commercial world!
We sold the rights to income just to survive - without that there would have been no club. We bought the right to be involved once more but it isnt anyones fault bar CCFC's that the club cannot afford to buy back in.
The bad guys in this are not ACL nor the council nor the charity. The blame for the current situation lies firmly on the shoulders of ALL those charged with the governance of the club be they anonymous owners or current & past directors. END OF
The accounts are at Companies House.
Lord_Nampil
Well-Known Member
The problem is though the contract was set up way before SISU, and way before 2007 were it came to a head!
For me the stadium back in 1998 proposed on that site was going to be for the football club and for the City of Coventry,
At the min we dont have a football stadium which ticks both of them boxes, and i feel the original point of the stadium has been lost!
Yes the council and ACL and Higgs trust maybe saying that, but its not helping any one saying it and then saying no to who ever the owners are when they investigate how to buy bk the share! (even McGinnity, Robinson and Fletcher) all struggled!
I agree its been a problem from the past, but in the past we tryed to do the right thing which has turned out to be the wrong thing regarding not going into admin in 2001/02!
So For the football club to carry on the club everyone needs to work together, doesnt look like SISU are the answer regarding owners, but the constant bickering between all parties and fans isnt helping, and untill it is resolved nothing will ever get better!
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Thanks for the heads up PWKH
Looks like another decent year for the ACL Group, with net profits and strengthening of the balance sheet. Well done to them !
Highlights
Turnover £6.6m
Expenses £5.1m (including £1.5m depreciation and £1m in wages)
Interest £1.0m
Net profit £471,389
No tax to pay
Balance sheet is now £1.5m positive for the group and in the year they spent a further £1.3m on new assets to improve the facilities. Overall debt is down
Further evidence of a well run business
No evidence of the £12.5m per annum though Wingy. I reckon the £125m referred to the expected take/sales over the bars, in catering etc during the 10 year period. I also think that ACL income is a mix of set rents and a percentage of event booking fees - but am guessing