Ticket prices - a huge gamble by the financially prudent SISU (1 Viewer)

[Nick]

If you want the paying public to fund a failing business

Isn't that how businesses tend to work? They bring more money in themselves?

 

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[Chipfat]

I think everybody knows why they are hanging around don't they ?

If anyone knew anything of certainty with Sisu we would all be a little bit easier on each other, the problem is nothing is transparent, no plan on or off the field. My opinion its about compo and court, but others will say different i suppose, 9 years of going backwards, while being told we are building foundations can do that to a man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[SkyBlueZack]

Worst owners? Have a day off. Richardson started this mess. I'm sure either him or another director lent the club money for Keane and then proceeded to pocked the profit when he was sold. Another director was taking out interest free loans. SISU are shit, but are only here because of previous owners ineptitude similar to their own at running a football club. People like to say SISU pocked transfer fees or are buying handbags or are paying for court cases. Yet there is no evidence of this. The only evidence is they have no idea about running a football club. They struggle to engage with supporters. Richardson splashed the cash which I suppose makes him alright to some. Problem is without him chasing the dream we wouldn't have ended up with the useless lot we got now.

 

[Chipfat]

Isn't that how businesses tend to work? They bring more money in themselves?

All i know is, if i owned a circus and sold every tiger, elephant and trapeze artist to cut costs but left the clowns as my show, putting my prices up would not improve my business.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

Maddison likes to be known as a lion

 

[Chipfat]

Worst owners? Have a day off. Richardson started this mess. I'm sure either him or another director lent the club money for Keane and then proceeded to pocked the profit when he was sold. Another director was taking out interest free loans. SISU are shit, but are only here because of previous owners ineptitude similar to their own at running a football club. People like to say SISU pocked transfer fees or are buying handbags or are paying for court cases. Yet there is no evidence of this. The only evidence is they have no idea about running a football club. They struggle to engage with supporters. Richardson splashed the cash which I suppose makes him alright to some. Problem is without him chasing the dream we wouldn't have ended up with the useless lot we got now.

Again an opinion, but please tell me instead of comparing others where we have improved as a club on or off the field in the 9 years since the day they took over.

 

[Nick]

All i know is, if i owned a circus and sold every tiger, elephant and trapeze artist to cut costs but left the clowns as my show, putting my prices up would not improve my business.

Strange, has the whole squad been sold or just Maddison?

Putting your costs up would increase revenue, so in theory it could improve your business. Especially if you are still cheaper than most of the other circuses (if thats a word).

 

[Nick]

Again an opinion, but please tell me instead of comparing others where we have improved as a club on or off the field in the 9 years since the day they took over.

How do you think our squad would look if we were paying 1.2million rent this year? How would that be covered, it would be a much lower wage budget or much higher prices. I'd guess probably a mixture of the 2.

Actual question, not sarcasm or anything.

I don't think they are the best owners in the world, I do wonder how we could look if one of the alternatives at the time had come in.

One of their massive downfalls is PR, the same situations could have been so much better if dealt with properly.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

You stated they were the worst owners we had. I disagreed and then gave my reasons for disagreeing. Did I say we had improved? Or was my point and still is that we wouldn't be in the mess we are now without previous owners being just as incompetent as the current owners. Is it that hard to comprehend?

 

[Brylowes]

Maddison likes to be known as a lion

And you sir, are a Sheep.


Mad's view not mine

 

[SkyBlueZack]

If anyone can mock up a lion with an alice band on, you would make my week :laugh:

 

[Chipfat]

How do you think our squad would look if we were paying 1.2million rent this year? How would that be covered, it would be a much lower wage budget or much higher prices. I'd guess probably a mixture of the 2.

Actual question, not sarcasm or anything.

I don't think they are the best owners in the world, I do wonder how we could look if one of the alternatives at the time had come in.

One of their massive downfalls is PR, the same situations could have been so much better if dealt with properly.

I dont think moving to NTFC to break a lease agreement was the correct thing to do, i also dont think at the time the CCC were asking for 1.2mill. They have gone around things the wrong way and if you really look at it what Wasps have now, that could of been ours if they played with a straight hand. They were not solely to blame in this situation but they have the key and held the keys to ever door and today we are where we are because of them.

Selling the likes of Maddison, Wilson and Clarke's does not build any foundation, its allows the owners to pay for the running costs of a business that they do not want to have. They ask for your money but dont care about product or experience you have, they don't mind not getting promoted, they carry on regardless, but will PR and spin all they can to get your money.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Just a couple of comments on the comparison between Richardson and SISU eras. No way meant as a defence of either. Richardson was director from 1993 to 2002 (but he wasn't the only director and legally its joint and several liability for the actions of the company board of directors ie he wasn't the only one) SISU here from 2008 to 2016. Approx. the same time in general terms

Richardson
Net balance sheet 1993 +1.6m
Net balance sheet 2002 +2.1m

Total Liabilities
1993 3.7m
2002 38m (including 14m relating to stadium project valued in 2002 at 19m)

Accumulated losses for the period of his tenure 11m


SISU
After fancy off balance sheet accounting they took on 9m in net liabilities. Of that I believe 6m related to payment due if we got to premiership so net liabilities relating to 2008 were really 3m
Net liabilities disclosed in 2015 accounts of SBS&L group 41m

Total liabilities in deal 2008 £15.8m (including the premiership deal never paid £6m) - net 9.8m
Total liabilities 2015 £42m

Losses from 2008 to 2015 £49m




IMO both messed up royally when dealing with the stadium

Looking at that you would have to say neither Richardson or SISU were a positive for CCFC. Richardson could claim there were others involved it wasn't just him. Neither of them had/have a clue as to how to get out of it. Richardson took us to the Championship SISU took us to L1. Both took us to the edge of financial disaster & extinction. Financially you can say BR left the club with net assets of 2.1m whereas we are currently negative by over 41m under sisu


Matter of opinion as to who has been worse

But that's just my take on it

 

[Nick]

I dont think moving to NTFC to break a lease agreement was the correct thing to do, i also dont think at the time the CCC were asking for 1.2mill. They have gone around things the wrong way and if you really look at it what Wasps have now, that could of been ours if they played with a straight hand. They were not solely to blame in this situation but they have the key and held the keys to ever door and today we are where we are because of them.

Selling the likes of Maddison, Wilson and Clarke's does not build any foundation, its allows the owners to pay for the running costs of a business that they do not want to have. They ask for your money but dont care about product or experience you have, they don't mind not getting promoted, they carry on regardless, but will PR and spin all they can to get your money.

Doesn't every business use PR to get your money? Isn't that what it is for?

Surely we are in league 1, it isn't rare to sell players to run the club is it?

Do you think the club really held the keys to every door? If so, why wasn't the Ricoh sold to them pre SISU when people wanted it?

 

[SkyBlueCharlie]

Strange, has the whole squad been sold or just Maddison?

Putting your costs up would increase revenue, so in theory it could improve your business. Especially if you are still cheaper than most of the other circuses (if thats a word).

Few misconceptions there Nick.
Revenue is normally said to be the total income of a business.
Putting up costs would not necessarily have any impact on revenue but would have a negative impact on profitability (unless you can increase your prices significantly without having a negative impact on demand). In the same way reducing costs does not, per se, affect revenue but could have a very positive effect on profitability.
Generally the only things that increase revenue are increases in demand for your product, introduction of new products unless, of course your product is generally price inelastic, then you can increase prices and increase revenue without having to worry about your customers' response.

 

[Chipfat]

You stated they were the worst owners we had. I disagreed and then gave my reasons for disagreeing. Did I say we had improved? Or was my point and still is that we wouldn't be in the mess we are now without previous owners being just as incompetent as the current owners. Is it that hard to comprehend?

I give up, have your opinion, spin it how you want. If you think they are not the worst but not the best or haven't improved the club i don't see a need in a debate. Agree to disagree and you can have the last word on this if you want.

 

[Chipfat]

Doesn't every business use PR to get your money? Isn't that what it is for?

Surely we are in league 1, it isn't rare to sell players to run the club is it?

Do you think the club really held the keys to every door? If so, why wasn't the Ricoh sold to them pre SISU when people wanted it?

I dont know Nik, you seem to know all the answers and seem to think Sisu had no chance of progressing anywhere or with anything at the club. Poor victims hey,, i feel sorry for the fans. I have no pity for the CCC, Sisu, Trust, Richarson, Robinson or any of the fookers that have us in L1 and are telling fans they should settle for it because thats business. Its bollocks bud and you know it.

 

[Nick]

I dont know Nik, you seem to know all the answers and seem to think Sisu had no chance of progressing anywhere or with anything at the club. Poor victims hey,, i feel sorry for the fans. I have no pity for the CCC, Sisu, Trust, Richarson, Robinson or any of the fookers that have us in L1 and are telling fans they should settle for it because thats business. Its bollocks bud and you know it.

Where have I said victims? If the club held all of the keys to the stadium, why when SISU came in did the others who wanted the stadium to go with the club not get very far?

There is a difference between settling and understanding isn't there? We are in League 1, not the premier league any more.

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

How do you think our squad would look if we were paying 1.2million rent this year? How would that be covered, it would be a much lower wage budget or much higher prices. I'd guess probably a mixture of the 2.

Actual question, not sarcasm or anything.

I don't think they are the best owners in the world, I do wonder how we could look if one of the alternatives at the time had come in.

One of their massive downfalls is PR, the same situations could have been so much better if dealt with properly.

As I recall, the last offer on the table was for the rent to be reduced to £400k.

It'd be interesting to know how much the move to Northampton cost us in lost revenue (tickets, sponsorship, programmes, kit/souvenirs etc) .

I'd be very surprised if we didn't lose revenues that were a significant multiple of our rent savings.

 

[Nick]

As I recall, the last offer on the table was for the rent to be reduced to £400k.

It'd be interesting to know how much the move to Northampton cost us in lost revenue (tickets, sponsorship, programmes, kit/souvenirs etc) .

I'd be very surprised if we didn't lose revenues that were a significant multiple of our rent savings.

Were there terms with that one? They confuse me

Was that the one to go up to full price after so long?

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

Were there terms with that one? They confuse me

Was that the one to go up to full price after so long?

It all seems a long time ago now, so I'm not 100% sure, but I think that this was a flat rate offer.

I think there was another one with a lower rent in League 1, but a much higher one in the Premiership.

 

[oldskyblue58]

As I recall, the last offer on the table was for the rent to be reduced to £400k.

It'd be interesting to know how much the move to Northampton cost us in lost revenue (tickets, sponsorship, programmes, kit/souvenirs etc) .

I'd be very surprised if we didn't lose revenues that were a significant multiple of our rent savings.

This may give some sort of indication

CCFC turnover before leaving Ricoh 6.6m 2012/13

CCFC turnover for year at Sixfields 3.75m 2013/14

CCFC turnover 2015 4.8m 2014/15

lost turnover compared to 2012/13 for those two years in total £4.6m

Rent saved per year £1m+ say 2.2m for those two years in total

 

[Chipfat]

Like i say Nik, i have an opinion on what they should of done when walking into the club for the first time with the keys, they should of been building bridges not crying then or complaining 8 years later that they were treated unfairly. If they done due diligence they would of seen the rent was to high, in fact they had late payment notices on the chairmen desk on the first day to tell them of a problem. They decided not to act, why?, lets be honest they didn't care, because they thought that would be someone else's problem when they sold a premiership club gained from initial investment.

Even Fat Tim said it, promotion sell the club or try to buy the stadium with the club and sell all together, was the one and only plan they had. We are paying for a very bad plan and they are being defended now because of having no plan b has but us in this position. And like you have stated doing the only thing we can to survive is right due to it being our only option.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Doesn't every business use PR to get your money? Isn't that what it is for?

Surely we are in league 1, it isn't rare to sell players to run the club is it?

Do you think the club really held the keys to every door? If so, why wasn't the Ricoh sold to them pre SISU when people wanted it?

See what I mean Chipfat..... 3 lines, 5 questions. He always answers a question with at least one question hence turning the whole point back onto the other poster. ................You sure you're not David Camoron(I know his name isn't spelt that way)

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

As I recall, the last offer on the table was for the rent to be reduced to £400k.

It'd be interesting to know how much the move to Northampton cost us in lost revenue (tickets, sponsorship, programmes, kit/souvenirs etc) .

I'd be very surprised if we didn't lose revenues that were a significant multiple of our rent savings.

Don't forget the £150k for the new pitch at Sixfields.

 

[Ashdown]

If anyone knew anything of certainty with Sisu we would all be a little bit easier on each other, the problem is nothing is transparent, no plan on or off the field. My opinion its about compo and court, but others will say different i suppose, 9 years of going backwards, while being told we are building foundations can do that to a man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They certainly aren't still here because they are fans of Coventry City or the City of Coventry. They couldn't give a shiny shite about anything other than using us as a dumping ground for debt whilst they fight it out in the law courts. For a few years I wanted to see them lose that battle but not now, I would love them to win £50 million, sell the club for a £1 debt free and fuck off. We could possibly have a consortium come in with fan involvement and run the club similar to Portsmouth. That wouldn't guarantee any success but hopefully it would be an open and transparent operation that the supporter base could get behind and monitor progress without all the smoke and mirrors.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

All i know is, if i owned a circus and sold every tiger, elephant and trapeze artist to cut costs but left the clowns as my show, putting my prices up would not improve my business.

Same principle applies to bringing in Toothless Tigers, an Elephant with no trunk, and Trapeze artists that are scared of heights.... and still try to put up prices.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

They certainly aren't still here because they are fans of Coventry City or the City of Coventry. They couldn't give a shiny shite about anything other than using us as a dumping ground for debt whilst they fight it out in the law courts. For a few years I wanted to see them lose that battle but not now, I would love them to win £50 million, sell the club for a £1 debt free and fuck off. We could possibly have a consortium come in with fan involvement and run the club similar to Portsmouth. That wouldn't guarantee any success but hopefully it would be an open and transparent operation that the supporter base could get behind and monitor progress without all the smoke and mirrors.

Sad to say this but, love this post. :claping hands: