Brylowes
Well-Known Member
Don't think we'll get a definitive result for many years.
Mean while back in court (26 Viewers)
- Thread starter sotonskyblue
- Start date
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I agree.
Personally I don't care who "wins" as long as CCFC come out ok. And, at the end of the day, whoever "loses" will be the side who have done something they shouldn't have. As Nick said it's about justice.
Personally I don't care who "wins" as long as CCFC come out ok. And, at the end of the day, whoever "loses" will be the side who have done something they shouldn't have. As Nick said it's about justice.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
It isn't about justice, it is about whose interpretation of the law is eventually accepted. Sometimes the law is a complete ass.
Nick
Administrator
So if the judges rule the council did something wrong, the law is an ass. If they say they didn't, I guess the law and justice prevails?
If 'we' had just paid for the Ricoh out of our own money we wouldn't have need a Higgs/council bail-out.
If we hadn't sold HFR we...
Too many ifs and buts.
Time to put it behind us and move on. The current owners should try to find a positive solution rather then desperately clutching at this straw!
The time, energy and money that has been spent on appeals could have been put into a real solution yet someone thought better of it!
CCC have not done enough to revive the city of Coventry during the current tenure. Having a vibrant football club as part of this should have been a big thing for them. Look at our M69 cousins. They're not blameless in this shambles, but the club need to take control of our destiny now!
If we hadn't sold HFR we...
Too many ifs and buts.
Time to put it behind us and move on. The current owners should try to find a positive solution rather then desperately clutching at this straw!
The time, energy and money that has been spent on appeals could have been put into a real solution yet someone thought better of it!
CCC have not done enough to revive the city of Coventry during the current tenure. Having a vibrant football club as part of this should have been a big thing for them. Look at our M69 cousins. They're not blameless in this shambles, but the club need to take control of our destiny now!
shy_tall_knight
Well-Known Member
"Time to put it behind us and move on" - not possible for either SISU or CCFC - the status quo is unacceptable for both.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Please don't put words into my mouth, the law is an ass whatever happens. The whole issue is a bleedin' nightmare. The rent strike started in March 2012, ACL commenced legal action not too long afterwards.. and so on..
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
duffer
Well-Known Member
Possibly, especially if you don't agree with it personally. But allowing a neutral court to decide is the worst form of justice except for all of the other forms that have been tried from time to time (to paraphrase Churchill).
Or we could just let the internet make the call on it, of course.
DazzleTommyDazzle
Well-Known Member
What could possibly go wrong with that?
duffer
Well-Known Member
Exactly my thoughts. Cheaper too. Facebook poll anyone?
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Whoever gets the nod from the judges tomorrow I seriously doubt that's the end to it.
If SISU win then there could be a CCC appeal but certainly there will be legal proceedings initiated by SISU against those they feel have done them wrong that follow
If CCC win then there could be a SISU appeal but certainly there will be legal proceedings initiated by SISU against those they feel have done them wrong that follow
All just my opinion of course. I think the legal proceedings are likely to run for some time yet
Will CCFC benefit from any of this, well you wouldn't think they could any time soon given how long legal proceedings take but in any case the legal cases are primarily for the benefit of the SISU investment funds. Of course as agents for the fund then SISU would be entitled to their fees attributable to the increase in fund value brought about by compensation claims. The first JR case has not been brought by Otium Entertainment trading as CCFC but by ARVO, SBS&L and CCFC H (now dissolved) it is of course SBS&L that owes the SISU investment fund 28.5m
As for right or wrong, I think that's going to remain a grey area. SISU win their case then it implies that CCC got things wrong legally, of course if SISU lose their case that same logic means CCC got things right legally. Cases such as this are often not clear cut (understatement in this saga)
If SISU win then there could be a CCC appeal but certainly there will be legal proceedings initiated by SISU against those they feel have done them wrong that follow
If CCC win then there could be a SISU appeal but certainly there will be legal proceedings initiated by SISU against those they feel have done them wrong that follow
All just my opinion of course. I think the legal proceedings are likely to run for some time yet
Will CCFC benefit from any of this, well you wouldn't think they could any time soon given how long legal proceedings take but in any case the legal cases are primarily for the benefit of the SISU investment funds. Of course as agents for the fund then SISU would be entitled to their fees attributable to the increase in fund value brought about by compensation claims. The first JR case has not been brought by Otium Entertainment trading as CCFC but by ARVO, SBS&L and CCFC H (now dissolved) it is of course SBS&L that owes the SISU investment fund 28.5m
As for right or wrong, I think that's going to remain a grey area. SISU win their case then it implies that CCC got things wrong legally, of course if SISU lose their case that same logic means CCC got things right legally. Cases such as this are often not clear cut (understatement in this saga)
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Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
That is the nub of the issue, this will rumble on and on and on..
Football in Coventry will not be the beneficiary. There will be another 3 or 4 years of all this.
oucho
Well-Known Member
Or they might be called "someone with a strong interest in seeing arrogant cut-throats getting their comeuppance."
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
Havent some judges already ruled that CCC did nothing wrong ?
The law is an ass if you can keep appealing until a judge interprets the same facts differently.
Having said that I have no idea how you would sort this situation out !!
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oucho
Well-Known Member
Don't call me a dope.
What I mean is, and what's actually very clear, is that the law can be an ass. Many cases have seen the "wrong" verdict handed down, simply because one party has got more expensive lawyers who can spot loopholes, and get away with arguing that black is white on technical but morally specious grounds.
You only have to read the original JR verdict by Gary Hodkinson to get a very clear view of the rights and wrongs. Sisu need some kind of obscure rule to "prove" the council have done wrong, and maybe they did technically, but that doesn't alter the overall theme which is that SISU tried to royally screw them and then cried foul when the council fought fire with fire.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Yes defeat for Lucas would be a fitting end to the dire oligarchs rule and contribution for destroying sporting tradition in Coventry.
Nick
Administrator
Yes, because the council aren't just as bad are they?
Either way, whether the council get their arse handed to them or SISU do. I very much doubt many will be opening a bottle of bubbly over it and preferring that result to promotion next year.
covmark
Well-Known Member
Fucking hell, the stuff I read on this forum never ceases to amaze me. Your former username wouldn't be spider ricoh would it?
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torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Very odd, isn't it? CCC had a similar attitude though when they sold out to Wasps. As long as it fucks over SISU who cares about the city, the club and the fans?
duffer
Well-Known Member
Generally speaking 'the law is an ass' tends to be quoted by those who haven't got the judgement that they've already decided is correct.
There's a reason and a purpose for appeal courts, and a well-established process in civil and criminal law that can always eventually be exhausted This can't go on for ever, no matter what people believe.
Whether you think it's right that more money grants you a better chance of having your case heard/defended/appealed is a different matter. In this case though, the council have much bigger resources than SISU. Defending this won't break the council and if SISU lose this one then (once again) I'd guess that it will cost them some serious money. They know the risks, who is anyone to deny them (or anyone else) a day in court based on an opinion?
There's a reason and a purpose for appeal courts, and a well-established process in civil and criminal law that can always eventually be exhausted This can't go on for ever, no matter what people believe.
Whether you think it's right that more money grants you a better chance of having your case heard/defended/appealed is a different matter. In this case though, the council have much bigger resources than SISU. Defending this won't break the council and if SISU lose this one then (once again) I'd guess that it will cost them some serious money. They know the risks, who is anyone to deny them (or anyone else) a day in court based on an opinion?
Brylowes
Well-Known Member
Cousin ! I always thought "there sister was there mother" and "tnere uncle was there brother".
hill83
Well-Known Member
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
This judgement doesn't really seem to deal with Justice to me.
It won't deal with what's morally right or wrong.
Whether the council did play dirty tricks or not.
Whether SISU were trying to drive down the price in order to get ACL at a bargain. Forcing the council to take this decision.
It won't look at were a Charity getting screwed over.
We don't get to look at SISU's emails and correspondence like with have with the council.
It seems we will never know the truth
All it seems to deal with is are a council allowed to use money in thia way or not. I assume they got legal advice when they did it. So they thought they were allowed to. They haven't been warned you can't do this ignored the advice and just cracked on with it.
So if the council are proved right it's not a massive deal for me as they would have just done what they were advised.
If SISU are proved right again it's not a massive deal. It will just show the council got bad legal advice.
I just hope that if SISU are right any compensation to be paid by central government. I don't want the people of Coventry be affected by this like the fans so far have been.
It won't deal with what's morally right or wrong.
Whether the council did play dirty tricks or not.
Whether SISU were trying to drive down the price in order to get ACL at a bargain. Forcing the council to take this decision.
It won't look at were a Charity getting screwed over.
We don't get to look at SISU's emails and correspondence like with have with the council.
It seems we will never know the truth
All it seems to deal with is are a council allowed to use money in thia way or not. I assume they got legal advice when they did it. So they thought they were allowed to. They haven't been warned you can't do this ignored the advice and just cracked on with it.
So if the council are proved right it's not a massive deal for me as they would have just done what they were advised.
If SISU are proved right again it's not a massive deal. It will just show the council got bad legal advice.
I just hope that if SISU are right any compensation to be paid by central government. I don't want the people of Coventry be affected by this like the fans so far have been.
Nick
Administrator
There's no law for morals though, as we have seen with the councils code of conduct that is meant to do that, it doesn't matter a bit anyway.
If there was a prison sentence, every one of them would be ordering soap on a rope.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
I know we will never get to the bottom of it.
The ethics committee only looked at one side.
So potentially as much as it was a whitewash it didn't carry much purpose for me unless both sides were having the same examination.
I just don't think these JR's really tell us much about the whole thing.
Its just coming down to was the legal advice the council got right or not.
It's tells us nothing about the true motivations and aims of either side
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
Really? Do you think so Duffer?
I would've thought it would've been the other way round due to councils funding essentially coming from central Govt/public money. Surely SISU could pump millions and millions into legal paths...I wouldn't have though a public body would be able to do that, especially given the current climate.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Yes it's the same guy. CJ Parker before that. He's the guy who thought crowds should gather outside Tim fishers child's school and protest
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Think you are barking up the wrong tree, the council is controlled by politicians, they may eventually take a different view, after all politics often involves distasteful compromise.
The hedge fund doesn't give 2 hoots about public perception, but there is the matter of Sepalla's business reputation, to avoid tarnishing the hard-nut image she will grind on and on...
Well that is the way I see it.. doesn't really tell you the eventual result..
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Would tend to agree.
SISU win, doesn't stop them being immoral loons.
CCC win... doesn't stop them being immoral loons.
Basically we're still caught between two sets of nutters, whoever wins!
Mild-Mannered Janitor
Kindest Bloke on CCFC / Maker of CCFC Dreams
What I have never understood is if SISU win and demonstrate that the money lent by the local authority was not lawful, what is the recourse for SISU?
Surely, the local authority face UK or European sanctions or penalties, why would they be then asked to pay compensation to SISU.
SISU acquired the club knowing they rented the ground and at what point with that contract, did they give a fuck about how it was funded.
they cannot void the sale to Wasps now can they? If that were the case then the liability to the local authority would be huge.
anyone provide a simple what it's worth to SISU to win this case financially or not and how they were disadvantaged by what the council did wrong to THEM?
Surely, the local authority face UK or European sanctions or penalties, why would they be then asked to pay compensation to SISU.
SISU acquired the club knowing they rented the ground and at what point with that contract, did they give a fuck about how it was funded.
they cannot void the sale to Wasps now can they? If that were the case then the liability to the local authority would be huge.
anyone provide a simple what it's worth to SISU to win this case financially or not and how they were disadvantaged by what the council did wrong to THEM?
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
Aren't you saying what I was saying though? That SISU would potentially spend more on taking things further?
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
If SISU won and were duly compensated - then what would be enough for them to get out of dodge?
If that was a serious possibility - it would be in all our interests for them to be successful.
Then of course we start the merry-go-round again with some different owners.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Only a guess.....
A private civil claim for compensation with all this as the evidence
Request the remedy is that Wasps pay a higher amount putting pressure on Wasps.
Request compensation as a remedy
I see both remedy's as unlikely so I presume it's the top one.
As I say only a guess