Butts park arena? (60 Viewers)

rexo87

Well-Known Member
something from cov rfc website

JS has been speaking with architects – one plan would be to have a two tier ground where the bottom tier would seat 2-3000 and would be used for rugby games and the larger second tier could be used for soccer games or for Championship/Premier games. The pitch would be sunk into the ground so the car park would in effect be at the point the first and second tiers meet. This is just one of the options though (the others weren’t discussed).

Cov United want to play some of their bigger games at The Butts next season and improvements to the pitch will need to take place for this to happen.

In addition, JS confirmed that he has been having talks with Coventry City who are at the moment groundless and although they do get gate receipts from their games at the Ricoh, revenue from drinks and other refreshments goes to Wasps. JS has been exploring the possibility of a new stadium at The Butts with far better facilities than at present, including a gym. There would be room on the current site for apartments and student accommodation, both of which are in demand – something called bankruptcy remoteness would ensure the club wasn’t saddled with debt should things not work out as expected. Football and rugby would come together under the banner of Coventry Sporting Club (?) – and although there hasn’t been the political will for this to happen before, changes in the council recently mean that this might no longer be the case.

There are ‘lots of bridges to be crossed’…?

However, JS did stress that even though Sky Blues had more financial resources and were the ‘bigger outfit’, Cov would have total control so long as he’s in charge (which begs an obvious question…).
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
Come on let's get this done. We're never going to get the Ricoh and we're never going to benefit from any additional revenue, so let's leave Wasps to sink or swim on their own.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member

jimmyhillsfanclub

Well-Known Member
one plan would be to have a two tier ground where the bottom tier would seat 2-3000 and would be used for rugby games and the larger second tier could be used for soccer games or for Championship/Premier games. The pitch would be sunk into the ground so the car park would in effect be at the point the first and second tiers meet

Have CRFC won the lottery?......and then had a massive winning streak at the casino?
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
It also says they already have planning for a 15k seater stadium.

So it seems Les Reid was right after all! o_O
 

Nick

Administrator
It would be good to know what the architechs have in mind to be able to fit everything in there.

I still hope if this happened, it would be beneficial to both rather than just CCFC running in and trying to take everything because they were the bigger guns in the agreement.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
It seems unlikely to me even though I'd like CCFC to play at the Butts (capacity between 20-25k). The costs of digging out and building sub ground level must be huge.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
It seems unlikely to me even though I'd like CCFC to play at the Butts (capacity between 20-25k). The costs of digging out and building sub ground level must be huge.

Yep, sounds like we are talking 'Coventry to be the new Venice' thinking.

Surely be astronomical costs involved.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
It seems unlikely to me even though I'd like CCFC to play at the Butts (capacity between 20-25k). The costs of digging out and building sub ground level must be huge.

True. Then again a few years ago I would have thought a London team being our masters would have been unlikely.
 

Hobo

Well-Known Member
This bit is interesting.
I think that could change once they start training in Coventry. However Roland Winter at Coventry has already said he is not a fan of using DR's from other clubs. But interesting times at Coventry Rugby. About time they got there act together....they should at least be a competitive Championship outfit.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
Does anyone think this site is big enough? Especially now they've built the retirement village on Albany Road.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
It seems unlikely to me even though I'd like CCFC to play at the Butts (capacity between 20-25k). The costs of digging out and building sub ground level must be huge.

I think you're right. At the end of the day SISU couldn't muster up £6M to make a bid for the Ricoh. The cost of this development will be many times this amount and they'll get less in return. Sounds unlikely to me.

I like the location for a ground but I also feel anything less or at least very close to HR capacity will be two steps back for the club. 15K is nonsense and will hamstring the clubs capacity to move up the tables and stay there without a wealthy backer willing to gamble and spank loads. Then you also have to factor in the existing debt and the debt of developing the site. I can't see how this will add up. Still if we had a fully costed business plan from our owners we might be able to get a better idea.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
I think you're right. At the end of the day SISU couldn't muster up £6M to make a bid for the Ricoh. The cost of this development will be many times this amount and they'll get less in return. Sounds unlikely to me.

I like the location for a ground but I also feel anything less or at least very close to HR capacity will be two steps back for the club. 15K is nonsense and will hamstring the clubs capacity to move up the tables and stay there without a wealthy backer willing to gamble and spank loads. Then you also have to factor in the existing debt and the debt of developing the site. I can't see how this will add up. Still if we had a fully costed business plan from our owners we might be able to get a better idea.

15K hasn't hamstrung Bournemouth, they're now in the Premiership and more than holding their own and they're capacity is 4K less. How can renting from Wasps with no extra income be good? Still not sure why you and others feel like things are great at the Ricoh and how the current deal will make us shoot up the leagues? Wasps aren't likely to give away any more of their income to us, are they? There's a nice big bond to repay in a few short years...
 

Nick

Administrator
I think the location is perfect, I think a clever architect could probably knock something up that will do a job.

The only thing then is development costs.

The Cov Rugby guy has been on about redevelopment anyway hasn't he?
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
PLANS to move Coventry City Football Club to a redeveloped home of Coventry rugby club at the Butts have been announced.

We exclusively revealed in November that the Coventry site identified by the Sky Blues for a stadium with potentially over 20,000 capacity was the Butts Park Arena home of Cov rugby.

But it is believed the plans would also need the support and approval of Coventry City Council, the freehold owner of the Butts Park Arena site, for which Cov rugby club chairman Jon Sharp is seeking to acquire a head lease.

We can exclusively reveal today the council wrote to Cov rugby club in January seeking to block the proposal with a legal clause – a restrictive covenant – to prevent professional football being played at a redeveloped Butts Park Arena stadium – so the council could “protect its position”.

It is not known whether the council’s position over a new sporting venture in the city centre – which aims to ensure the survival of two of the city’s great sporting institutions – will soften under new leader George Duggins.

Coventry council has long said the Ricoh Arena project in the north of Coventry is important to the city’s economy.

But it has also since 2014 been developing a so-called ‘City Centre First’ strategy in which a rejuvenated city centre would drive the city’s future economy.

Mr Sharp told the rugby club’s fans about the until now confidential latest redevelopment proposals at a fans’ forum meeting last night, and spoke exclusively with the Coventry Observer today.

As we first revealed in November, proposals are being examined for the two threatened traditional city clubs to redevelop the Butts, and groundshare under a ‘Coventry Sporting’ Joint Venture designed to ensure their future survival and success.

The football club, a mere tenant at the Ricoh Arena and deprived on commercial revenue from the stadium, would benefit from both matchday revenues beyond current ticket revenues at a redeveloped Butts, and from non-matchday revenues. So too would Cov rugby club.

Cov rugby could also benefit from greater access to financing for the stadium’s redevelopment under the joint venture.

Many Coventry City fans have insisted any new stadium should be inside the city’s borders, not in Warwickshire.

The football club and its owners Sisu have consistently said it vitally needs commercial revenue from a stadium to be viable and invest in Tony Mowbray’s team – rather than continuing to rent at the Ricoh Arena.

Revenues from commercial activities including events and conferences at the Ricoh Arena go instead to its owners, rugby club Wasps.

The Sky Blues’ Ricoh home – which had partly depended on the club’s money – was sold by former owners the council and Alan Edward Higgs Charity in October 2014 to the indebted former London rugby club on a secret 250-year deal not offered to the football club.

Wasps, with reported debts of £35million, stated on its website at the time it needed the Ricoh move and stadium revenue streams to prevent it going bust.

Mr Sharp confirmed in December on BBC Coventry and Warwickshire following our exclusive that the Sky Blues had examined the Butts relocation, but said there were no “current plans”.

The redevelopment plans would first require the imminent transfer to him of the Butts’ site’s 125-year head lease. The rugby club currently holds a sub-lease.

He said in December he was closing in on the deal with Chris Millerchip, a former Cov rugby player now living in New York. who currently holds the wider Butts Park Arena site’s lease from Coventry City Council.

That transaction is still expected to be completed imminently.

Mr Sharp told the Coventry Observer today the first stage was to complete a feasibility study for the redevelopment and groundshare, and that architects were currently engaged. The second stage would be to examine financing.

He told us today one possibility was for two new stands to be built in the first instance, with a potential initial capacity of 15,000. The ground currently has one stand and a 4,000 capacity.

He added it was also possible that the ground could be expanded by increments depending on growth and demand, notably were Coventry City Football Club to win promotions.

He said one concern was that the football club’s desire for a 25,000 stadium may be considered too large for Coventry rugby club present crowds, but said nothing was ruled out.

The plan is also to join the two club’s academies in a scheme for the whole community. Academy facilities would be based off-site, said Mr Sharp.

Coventry United Football Club could also be involved in the groundshare, he added.

He told fans last night any final decision would rest with the rugby club’s board.

We revealed in November the Sky Blues considered the current 4,000-capacity Butts stadium could be redeveloped to initially 12,000 to 15,000, then upwards to over 20,000.

Such gates would be above average attendances at the former Highfield Road stadium even in the club’s Premiership years.

Mr Sharp revealed in December there was potential for development on a larger area of land than the current Butts stadium footprint. Some have questioned whether transport and parking arrangements would be adequate.

Coventry City Council would have to grant planning consent in the first instance, but the government could intervene in any final planning decision.

The Coventry Observer also exclusively revealed in December that Coventry City had agreed to extend the current Ricoh rent agreement for a further two years beyond the season just ended – while it considered its future options while Ricoh talks continued.

No offers have emerged for the football club to share ownership or revenues at the Ricoh with its Wasps owners, despite CCFC executive Chris Anderson saying such a deal had not been ruled out, apparently contradicting the view of the club’s owners.

The restrictive covenant previously sought by the council would prevent any professional football being played at the stadium for the entire period of the lease.

The proposed restrictive covenant also explicitly stated that a professional football club’s training activities could not take place there either.

It is not clear whether, despite the threat to do so, the council would have the power to insist on such a restrictive covenant.

No such conditions were placed by the council on the Ricoh’s sale to Wasps. The deal also saw the collapsing of a ‘buy back’ option for the Sky Blues to purchase the charity’s shares in Ricoh operating company Arena Coventry Limited.

It follows an ongoing long running and acrimonious legal dispute between the council and the Sky Blues’ owners over Ricoh Arena ownership, revenue and rent.

Appeal judges last week ruled a council £14million taxpayer bailout of the Ricoh in January 2013 was not unlawful. Further action by the club over the Wasps deal could follow.
 

Nick

Administrator
We can exclusively reveal today the council wrote to Cov rugby club in January seeking to block the proposal with a legal clause – a restrictive covenant – to prevent professional football being played at a redeveloped Butts Park Arena stadium – so the council could “protect its position”.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
15K hasn't hamstrung Bournemouth, they're now in the Premiership and more than holding their own and they're capacity is 4K less. How can renting from Wasps with no extra income be good? Still not sure why you and others feel like things are great at the Ricoh and how the current deal will make us shoot up the leagues? Wasps aren't likely to give away any more of their income to us, are they? There's a nice big bond to repay in a few short years...

It hasn't hamstrung Bournemouth because they have a wealthy backer. The whole reason I made the point of having a wealthy backer in anticipation of someone bringing up Bournemouth.

Renting from Wasps with no extra income isn't good and I didn't suggest it was. It may well be better though. Like I said we need a fully costed business plan, both for developing BPA and renting at the Ricoh.

I don't know why you keep suggesting that I've said things are good at the Ricoh and it will shoot us up the leagues. I've never said anything remotely close to that. All I've suggested is that it may be our best option. Again, we need a fully costed business plan for both options. We need to know what long term deal we can negotiate at the Ricoh and how much it will cost to develop the BPA. The latter isn't going to be cheap you know and will load CCFC with alot of debt. Joy and her investors aren't going to gift it to the club.

What I don't get is why some are so keen to get out of the Ricoh at any cost or blindly follow a plan on a whim without any idea of the long term implications.
 

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