SkyBlueZack
Well-Known Member
Unless it's a meeting between Joy and AL in which Joy requests it to be confidential but it's leaked to the papers? I get it. Hypocrisy.
Mean while back in court (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter sotonskyblue
- Start date
Unless it's a meeting between Joy and AL in which Joy requests it to be confidential but it's leaked to the papers? I get it. Hypocrisy.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
The CCFC lease didn't revert back to ACL until it was disclaimed by the liquidator. Administration is an insolvency event yes but the courts wont enact any related reclaim clause if there is a possibility of selling the company. Once there is no such possibility or reason to keep the company then a liquidator gets appointed and the lease disclaimed. At that point there is no lease and the freeholder is open to offers for a new lease
Same shit, different bucket you mean.
Good point. The best time would have been at the take over by SISU. They could have 250 year lease or your tenant dies ( figuratively speaking ).
SkyBlueZack
Well-Known Member
So as I have mentioned before there would have been an open bidding process for ACL in administration. The only people to lose anything being YB. I acknowledge the charity losing their share. Can someone tell me why this was such a devastating option? Other than SISU might have bought it. It seems to be the only logical explanation. I for one don't care if a bank loses a few quid.
SkyBlueZack
Well-Known Member
Ahhhhh but this was at the same point SISU were only approved as they weren't interested in the stadium. Shapiro and Manhattan were and got no where. So whilst in theory you're right, the evidence would appear to say otherwise.
Nick
Administrator
You mean like when the council laughed at the Shapiro offer to buy the Ricoh and "scared" the Manhatten group off by their talks about the Ricoh?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
I haven't seen the actual lease so I don't know what was in it but as we are repeatedly told it is an asset of the city I would expect a clause to force forfeiture should any insolvency event occur.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Only thoughts........
in theory to bid on ACL you would be buying the other debts too and the shares would have sold for £1. But as investors and owners CCC & AEHC didn't have to choose that path and if they were aware of other tangible interest had other options. It would have meant the shareholders would have lost control of the asset in a way they had no control of and therefore could not put in caveats as to use and development. It may also have meant some of the grants having to be repaid (buts only a thought not a fact)
The bank would have lost out, CCC would have lost out, AEHC would have lost out, Creditors would have lost out, employees would have lost out.
It is not certain SISU would have gained ownership, I would guess plenty of other parties would have been interested in acquiring then long leasing to CCFC
Of course at that time SISU were repeatedly insisting that unencumbered freehold was what they wanted. CCC, AEHC and ACL were also being advised (including by Yorkshire Bank) that with restructuring there was a viable business there even without CCFC
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
I would expect such a clause was included CD but like I said administration does not immediately mean the Freeholder snatches the lease back (on any commercial lease)
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
And this is exactly the reason the way CCC conducted the sale was wrong. To maximise return for the taxpayer, and the charity, it should have been properly marketed by a specialist agency.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
wrong but from what I have seen not illegal
SkyBlueZack
Well-Known Member
Would there not be a penny in the pound kind of offer? Thus reducing the YB loan which was the original plan. Employees would have lost out? Only if the stadium closed? As you said SISU being the only interested party would be unlikely so a takeover/purchase/buy out would secure employees futures? Don't know about the grants but as the Ricoh had been open for a number of years and was 'facing financial difficulties' would they have much chance of getting grants back? Restructing what though? Company structure or financial structure? Do we know if YB ever offered to restructure the loan during the dispute? It does seem strange that if there was a viable business that the loan was not taken out with a market lender so to prevent the whole JR thing.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
or would you take your chance in ACL being liquidated and get a different set up entirely ....... being the only game in town, it being CCFC hometown etc
The restructuring was both IEC was set up and overheads were cut, staff let go. Drive to obtain more and different income streams etc Bank had seen the restructuring plans and concluded business viable
Legal advice probably said that the risk of successful challenge was low - so far it has proven correct.
CCC and AEHC should not have sold to Wasps but it seems to me the they were the only ones prepared to take on the structure, had a convincing plan as to how to take it forward and a plan to back it financially. Aside from egos and past history it seems to me that's what swung it. But that's just an opinion - mine
The restructuring was both IEC was set up and overheads were cut, staff let go. Drive to obtain more and different income streams etc Bank had seen the restructuring plans and concluded business viable
Legal advice probably said that the risk of successful challenge was low - so far it has proven correct.
CCC and AEHC should not have sold to Wasps but it seems to me the they were the only ones prepared to take on the structure, had a convincing plan as to how to take it forward and a plan to back it financially. Aside from egos and past history it seems to me that's what swung it. But that's just an opinion - mine
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
According to the CT the deadline for an appeal on the JR1 is 4pm today
Nick
Administrator
Would be too quiet without an Exclusive today surely?
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
but its not a Thursday!! how dare they mess with the order of things :jawdrop:
Nick
Administrator
The Gilbert / Reid willy wave is a 24/7 activity!
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
How fucking stupid.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
sadly it is not unexpected is it
This quite literally will go on for years.
Hardly engenders a positive relationship with CCC when the club need it to be. Yes I know you could say CCC should make a positive move towards the club but very hard to see that happening when the clubs owners are so set on court action at every turn
Both as stubborn as each other but the SISU insistence on taking everything to court has got to the level beyond ridiculous now
This quite literally will go on for years.
Hardly engenders a positive relationship with CCC when the club need it to be. Yes I know you could say CCC should make a positive move towards the club but very hard to see that happening when the clubs owners are so set on court action at every turn
Both as stubborn as each other but the SISU insistence on taking everything to court has got to the level beyond ridiculous now
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-city-fc-owners-appeal-11364456
It will never end this nightmare
It will never end this nightmare
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
A lucky break, puts more pressure and time on ccc. More time for things to happen.
It's sill nonsensical. Why just give away your money. This is why people hate sisu. They don't do themselves favors in my opinion. Doesn't put them higher in my estimation. It drags ccfc down further so why would I be happy about this?
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
This high legal bills could be spent on the team in a piss poor league.
Just saying
Just saying
James Smith
Well-Known Member
We passed the
"Pack it in Frank you silly bastard"
stage a while ago. As OSB58 says, they ain't finished yet despite first one Judge and then another three telling them what they don't want to hear. I was hoping that we'd be able to concentrate on the football now not the court cases, guess not.
"Pack it in Frank you silly bastard"
stage a while ago. As OSB58 says, they ain't finished yet despite first one Judge and then another three telling them what they don't want to hear. I was hoping that we'd be able to concentrate on the football now not the court cases, guess not.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Wonder if they are actually spending much. If they have an in-house legal team or counsel on retainer it might not be costing them all that much.
Personally think there's zero chance that the playing budget would increase without legal action.
James Smith
Well-Known Member
I doubt that they're on a no win no fee deal. Can't imagine anyone would take that risk. Didn't someone say before that the legal action was being bankrolled by Sisu and not the Club?
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Maybe that's the problem if it was funded by the club it was Would be easier to justify to stop.
No way is this cheap legal action. No such thing and sisu are paying ccc costs as well so it's a double cost. Why? It's beyond me
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I would guess that the costs are funded by investment funds. In truth this would be a tiny tiny percentage of the total portfolio - its like someone buying a lottery ticket and hoping to win millions but better (arguably) in that Sisu will say they have experience in this. Think about it - if you are an investment manager in a Billion pound fund and were approached to put 0.001% in for an opportunity to quadruple the investment would you?
All speculation but I suspect these actions cost the actual owners of Sisu and the club nothing
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
True Grendel we have been told that sisu funds this and is completely separate to the club but it's still hard to take. When is 2 year we are homeless and we need to get something sorted one way or the other.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Depends on your definition of cost.
RegTheDonk
Well-Known Member
Probably, but if they're that flush why don't they just build the new fucking stadium, get the revenues they reckon are needed so badly, and make the dough over the long term - instead of pissing about and having a product that is reducing is value and fanbase every year.