Is the Butts deal imminent? (23 Viewers)

[torchomatic]

I don't get all this "no parking" around the Butts.
Old Trafford is nearly 80000 and has plans to go to 90,000 ,Anfield is going to be 60000, new White Hart Lane will be 60000,, infact all the great grounds in England are surrounded by housing with absolutely no parking except in local car parks or the local streets , and in most cases poor public transport infrastructure, yet they manage perfectly.
Look at new Anfield it's totally surrounded as is Everton ,the list goes on and on, yet we have fans moaning about the chaos it will be with a 20000 stadium.
We will manage and so will the city centre.

Absolutely. It is just something to gripe about. As I said earlier if there were plans for an out of town stadium the same people would just have different gripes. If it happens, it does. If not, then it won't simple really. Personally, hope it does. Could the making of us.

 

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[clint van damme]

I don't get all this "no parking" around the Butt.
Old Trafford is nearly 80000 and has plans to go to 90,000 ,Anfield is going to be 60000, new White Hart Lane will be 60000,, infact all the great grounds in England are surrounded by housing with absolutely no parking except in local car parks or the local streets , and in most cases poor public transport infrastructure, yet they manage perfectly.
Look at new Anfield it's totally surrounded as is Everton ,the list goes on and on, yet we have fans moaning about the chaos it will be with a 20000 stadium.
We will manage and so will the city centre.

don't know how many times I have to say it, there's hardly any pedestrian access! You're right about parking, plenty of options near by but 5,000 people trying to get under the railway bridge exit into Sovereign Road has the potential for some serious health and safety issues. This isn't insurmountable but again, are the parties involved willing to get together to both solve and fund these issues.

 

[torchomatic]

leaving us stuck and probably forever stuck in League One and Two.

Whereas the future is so bright at the Ricoh!

 

[Captain Dart]

Do you really think that Sisu or CRFC have the financial backing to be able to pull this off. If sisu had the will to do this then you would think they would drop the JR and crack on, or is it that as most people think that their hopes of extricating them selves from the club is to win a financial settlement through litigation to enable them to move on? I cant see any one wanting to fund a Sisu led infrastructure project with their track record, its all probably tactics to drive a better deal at the Ricoh. This would be a 2 to 3 year project with massive implications on the surrounding area right in the middle of a major city with one access road. Having the will to do it and being able to is two different things Torch.

Name one building project SISU/ARVO have delivered. I don't believe they've never built anything *, some hedge funds do that but that is not what SISU/ARVO do.

* If someone can provide an example of a completed or even in progress SISU/ARVO development I'd be delighted to hear of it.

 

[shmmeee]

I'd be amazed if it ever passed planning, the residents comments alone will hold it up forever. Some people on here seem to have never met anyone from Earlsdon.

Then people are talking about knocking down half of Spon End and the Butts for access and parking, as if we live in a dictatorship and can just clear land like Mugabe.

Also, the number of people whining about Wasps yet perfectly happy to move into an identical situation with another rugger team is ridiculous.

I maintain City Centre South is the best position for it, or around Warwick Uni.

Mostly though, I notice that everyone has forgotten and forgiven the endless lies we were fed about how far along this project was. Everyone seems happy to take this all at face value despite the history around this supposed new stadium.

 

[clint van damme]

Whereas the future is so bright at the Ricoh!

not at all. We really are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

And the problem is that two of the main contributors to the Ricoh fiasco will have to work closely together to deliver the Butts.

 

[torchomatic]

are the parties involved willing to get together to both solve and fund these issues.

That's the crux of it, of course. However, you and many others are stating it WON'T happen before the project has even got off the ground.

I can imagine you, Otis and Tony in the pub..."here, have you heard about that bloke who's invented something called a telephone? He reckons people will be able to talk to each other at distances of miles! Ridiculous! We've got riders and horses and messenger boys, why would we need a telephone? They'll be saying we'll be able to fly over to America next"

 

[torchomatic]

I'd be amazed if it ever passed planning, the residents comments alone will hold it up forever. Some people on here seem to have never met anyone from Earlsdon.
.

I have. Unfortunately, my Dad was born there.

 

[clint van damme]

That's the crux of it, of course. However, you and many others are stating it WON'T happen before the project has even got off the ground.

I can imagine you, Otis and Tony in the pub..."here, have you heard about that bloke who's invented something called a telephone? He reckons people will be able to talk to each other at distances of miles! Ridiculous! We've got riders and horses and messenger boys, why would we need a telephone? They'll be saying we'll be able to fly over to America next"

I wouldn't be talking to Tony and Otis, I'd be too busy selling you magic beans!

 

[torchomatic]

Name one building project SISU/ARVO have delivered. I don't believe they've never built anything *, some hedge funds do that but that is not what SISU/ARVO do.

* If someone can provide an example of a completed or even in progress SISU/ARVO development I'd be delighted to hear of it.

Not sure what that's got to do with anything. Name one 32K stadium CCFC/CCC had been involved with before the Ricoh.

 

[shmmeee]

I have. Unfortunately, my Dad was born there.

As an Earlsdon native, I take exception to that.

Expect a strongly worded letter in the ECHO.

 

[torchomatic]

I wouldn't be talking to Tony and Otis, I'd be too busy selling you magic beans!

Well, as I say. We'll agree to disagree.

 

[torchomatic]

As an Earlsdon native, I take exception to that.

Expect a strongly worded letter in the ECHO.

I remember those long (and I mean long) summer days in Hawkins Road.

 

[clint van damme]

I live in Earlsdon and would love it to happen.

For my City team to achieve something playing out of the suburb I live in would make me a very happy man.

But it's an enormous project which would require a lot of imagination and innovation, the involvement of people with a sense of civic pride and above all funding. Don't know enough about CRFC but not one box ticked by sisu or the council.

 

[Otis]

I'd be amazed if it ever passed planning, the residents comments alone will hold it up forever. Some people on here seem to have never met anyone from Earlsdon.

Then people are talking about knocking down half of Spon End and the Butts for access and parking, as if we live in a dictatorship and can just clear land like Mugabe.

Yep, exactly. Are we so selfish, that even after Wasps et al screwed us over, we think we can just start knocking down stuff here and there, making other people's lives a misery?

The people making these comments seemingly HAVEN'T met anyone from Earlsdon. There will be absolutely massive opposition to this. No doubt about this and how is anyone going to be able to get up and down Albany Road to Earlsdon High Street?

Are we really going to make all the residents go all the way around to come through via the Memorial Park to get in and out? It's either that way or up towards Hearsall Common and take a left, but that again may well mean driving past the stadium.

I don't mind going to the Butts on the proviso it is going to be big enough for a long term future, but we also have to show some compassion and care and understanding for the local residents and the retirement village and see how they feel about it all, don't we?

Great if there is little or no opposition, but personally I think the opposition is going to be huge.

It can't just be get out of the Ricoh at all costs and that is sort of coming through here I feel from a few posts.

Let's build something that is for the whole city if possible, not just for what is less than 10% of the population.

 

[Otis]

That's the crux of it, of course. However, you and many others are stating it WON'T happen before the project has even got off the ground.

I can imagine you, Otis and Tony in the pub..."here, have you heard about that bloke who's invented something called a telephone? He reckons people will be able to talk to each other at distances of miles! Ridiculous! We've got riders and horses and messenger boys, why would we need a telephone? They'll be saying we'll be able to fly over to America next"

Torch stop being an arse.

You are clearly reading between the lines.

I have said I am happy to go to the Butts, but that it is going to take some major roadworks and changes to the road system for it to even begin to work.

Because I am being reasoned and rational, merely stating the difficulties, you take that as opposition and negativity.

What do you want me to say, that all is going to be well and easy?

If you wish to ignore all the obstacles, then do so and keep wishing for the dream, but those of us in the real world know this is going to be very, very difficult to pull off, if at all.

 

[Grendel]

Yep, exactly. Are we so selfish, that even after Wasps et al screwed us over, we think we can just start knocking down stuff here and there, making other people's lives a misery?

The people making these comments seemingly HAVEN'T met anyone from Earlsdon. There will be absolutely massive opposition to this. No doubt about this and how is anyone going to be able to get up and down Albany Road to Earlsdon High Street?

Are we really going to make all the residents go all the way around to come through via the Memorial Park to get in and out? It's either that way or up towards Hearsall Common and take a left, but that again may well mean driving past the stadium.

I don't mind going to the Butts on the proviso it is going to be big enough for a long term future, but we also have to show some compassion and care and understanding for the local residents and the retirement village and see how they feel about it all, don't we?

Great if there is little or no opposition, but personally I think the opposition is going to be huge.

It can't just be get out of the Ricoh at all costs and that is sort of coming through here I feel from a few posts.

Let's build something that is for the whole city if possible, not just for what is less than 10% of the population.

Frankly if the council have a will public opposition will mean absolutely nothing.

They are building on virtually every green belt land area that is available despite massive opposition to it. Every area that is impacted has said no and it's been totally ignored.

The 10% of the population is a red herring as it will benefit more of the population of the city than it impacts. I doubt very much that local businesses in earlsdon will object either,

If rather see money invested in this than a swimming pool in god forsaken Earnsford Grange or a water park in a city no one wants to go to.

 

[Otis]

Frankly if the council have a will public opposition will mean absolutely nothing.

They are building on virtually every green belt land area that is available despite massive opposition to it. Every area that is impacted has said no and it's been totally ignored.

The 10% of the population is a red herring as it will benefit more of the population of the city than it impacts. I doubt very much that local businesses in earlsdon will object either,

If rather see money invested in this than a swimming pool in god forsaken Earnsford Grange or a water park in a city no one wants to go to.

I honestly believe the opposition here will be huge and it will scupper anything other than a very small stadium, if that.

I have a problem with building on green belt land too as it happens, unless there is absolutely no other way round it.

Would also just like to add, SBT is doing its usual if you're not with me you're against me routine.

It's not just a case of for the Ricoh, against the Butts, or for the Butts and against the Ricoh. There's a massive, massive grey area inbetween.
Just because someone says the whole thing is probably not going to work, doesn't mean they don't want it to work.

 

[skybluetony176]

Whereas the future is so bright at the Ricoh!

It's far from ideal but then neither is the BPA in what's being proposed. If SISU ever do look to sell personally I see part ownership of a 15K BPA as a bigger hurdel than renting at the Ricoh. For starters the BPA gives any potential new owners very few options, if any. If they want to expand they need agreement of CRFC, are CRFC going to either want that, need that or have the finances for that? If no what do we do next? Buy CRFC out of the BPA so we can expand? CRFC buy us out of the BPA so we can move on?

If we can get the right rent deal at the Ricoh for say 5-10years the one thing it does give any new owner is options and easy ones. The BPA isn't going anywhere they can always look at that again or they could start trying to locate a new site altogether. New owner who aren't litigating everyone with a different attitude may just be easier to work with when compared to current owners and options might all of a sudden become more available.

 

[skybluetony176]

That's the crux of it, of course. However, you and many others are stating it WON'T happen before the project has even got off the ground.

I can imagine you, Otis and Tony in the pub..."here, have you heard about that bloke who's invented something called a telephone? He reckons people will be able to talk to each other at distances of miles! Ridiculous! We've got riders and horses and messenger boys, why would we need a telephone? They'll be saying we'll be able to fly over to America next"

I would think leving the Ricoh for the BPA in what is being proposed is more like replacing the telephone with horses and riders. Maybe that's what you, grendull talk about in the pub

 

[torchomatic]

I would think leving the Ricoh for the BPA in what is being proposed is more like replacing the telephone with horses and riders. Maybe that's what you, grendull talk about in the pub

So you'd rather your club be hamstrung with no chance of increasing revenue and progressing up the leagues?

Fair enough, each to their own.

Sent from my P9000 using Tapatalk

 

[skybluetony176]

So you'd rather your club be hamstrung with no chance of increasing revenue and progressing up the leagues?

Fair enough, each to their own.

Sent from my P9000 using Tapatalk

No. Which is why I'm against moving to the BPA at 15K with a fingers crossed approach to further expansion. I struggle to see how that's a better option to renting at the Ricoh at this moment in time. Still I'm sure our owners are sharing all the details at the latest SCG and this time next week when the minutes are out we'll all be able to make an informed decision on wether it's a good idea or not.

 

[Otis]

We need Sisu gone.

I am doing my bit, I'm buying a Euromillions lucky dip every week.

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[Grendel]

No. Which is why I'm against moving to the BPA at 15K with a fingers crossed approach to further expansion. I struggle to see how that's a better option to renting at the Ricoh at this moment in time. Still I'm sure our owners are sharing all the details at the latest SCG and this time next week when the minutes are out we'll all be able to make an informed decision on wether it's a good idea or not.

So you'd sign a ten year lease with no break cause and no revenue benefits? Can't see that being attractive to any new buyer.

 

[clint van damme]

So you'd rather your club be hamstrung with no chance of increasing revenue and progressing up the leagues?

Fair enough, each to their own.

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Don't think he, or anyone else is saying that.
But the whole project has to be right. If someone can show me how moving to the Butts improves our chances of increasing revenue and progressing up the leagues then that's a start but there are so many barriers to cross and so many questions to be answered.

Really can't see what your not grasping. If a coherent plan is put before the supporters which has the backing of the parties involved and will benefit both the football and rugby clubs as well as the city's council tax payers then who wouldn't back it apart from a few nimbys. We're a million miles away from that.

I'm not saying don't move to the Butts, I'm saying show me how me can in a way that takes the club forward.

At the moment all we've got is a statement from the rugby club and an artists impression of the ground from 2013.

 

[skybluetony176]

So you'd sign a ten year lease with no break cause and no revenue benefits? Can't see that being attractive to any new buyer.

I didn't say say that numb nuts. Probably why you're trying to make out I did.

 

[torchomatic]

I didn't say say that numb nuts. Probably why you're trying to make out I did.

A lot of that goes on though, isn't there, Tony?

 

[torchomatic]

No. Which is why I'm against moving to the BPA at 15K with a fingers crossed approach to further expansion. I struggle to see how that's a better option to renting at the Ricoh at this moment in time. Still I'm sure our owners are sharing all the details at the latest SCG and this time next week when the minutes are out we'll all be able to make an informed decision on wether it's a good idea or not.

Read Jan's post about Wasps, Ricoh and revenue on the SCG thread. There is no chance we are going to get a better deal. No chance of increased revenues. Without increased revenues then bargain basement players and selling of anyone decent who comes through the ranks. That is what our future will be if we stay and stagnate at the Ricoh. I don't want that, which is why I am hoping the BPA thing comes off. Yes, it will be a smaller capacity at the start but history shows we wouldn't sell that out very often. They talk of increasing capacity if we were successful, sounds good to me.

We do have two choices. You've made yours, I've made mine. However, it won't be up to us what happens anyway.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Some people on here seem to have never met anyone from Earlsdon.

Hey, I married an Earlsdon girl and what a fcuking disaster that turned out to be!

 

[rupert_bear]

BPA ain't going to happen. Our only option is to negotiate an on going deal at the Ricoh.

 

[oldskyblue58]

So is BPA imminent ? no nowhere close to that if ever

 

[Paxman II]

I've been away out of touch but having read this stuff through I think there is no possibility we will be going to the BPA any time soon. I said it long ago there simply is not the capacity to grow a big city club there. This club will get out of league 1 even with SISU in charge. In the Championship and beyond we will need capacity. The Ricoh is still the obvious choice. We are in a strong position there tbh. Wasp can not survive there long term without a supporting tenant in my opinion. Time will come when we are the focus there with 30k crowds and the pressure on Wasp to deal with 'ownership' rights will crop up again and again...particularly if we have new owners and are sitting in the Premier league or even holding steady in the Championship.They need us now and we can and should find a way to work together and believe ultimately they will.
The alternative is some sort of home at the BPA while we wait and see Wasp struggle with overhead. Then come pouncing back and try to win the Ricoh deal back...really? Even SISU can't be thinking of going down that kind of road again. The light in the tunnel has been on this last twelve months. TM and MV - finally a proper management team, we very nearly joined in the fun of promotion. SISU I believe will encourage them with one of the best budgets in the league this coming season (it doesn't take much to do that in league 1) and I honestly believe we will get promoted. 30k at the Ricoh come April time is not unlikely as fans interest peaks. And that's what we are as a club folks. We are not (I hope) going to condemn ourselves to the BPA and step backwards in time and start acting like we never were a premier league outfit for 34 years prior to our dramatic slide. If it were my business I would keep us at the Ricoh and aim for promotions. Let the rest take care of itself as the success accumulates. It was always going to be difficult for WASP to sustain the Ricoh and keep it for their sole use while ignoring a one team big city football club standing on the sidelines. For that they were naive and the council at the time stupid.

 

[Kingokings204]

BPA ain't going to happen. Our only option is to negotiate an on going deal at the Ricoh.

I agree but the counter argument is well we don't want to rent off wasps well newsflash no one does. We are in a crap position and there is no easy answer but the only answer for now is a short term rent deal with wasps whether people like that or not that's the reality.

I'm with Clint, if someone can show me realistic quality plans to BPA or any new venture then I am all for it obviously but I have two major problems.

1. 15k stadium and a possible increase just isn't acceptable to me. Funding and access need major re designs.

2. Our owners have had years to sort out this new ground and 4 years on from when we first rent striked we have a artist sketch and some idle chit chat discussions. It could of been ready now if serious.

Bottom line is we won't have a new ground under these owners. Sixfields was as good as it got to a new stadium and just for the record in 2 years we are homeless. Time to panic again?

 

[skybluetony176]

A lot of that goes on though, isn't there, Tony?

What? Numb nuts?

 

[Samo]

I've been away out of touch but having read this stuff through I think there is no possibility we will be going to the BPA any time soon. I said it long ago there simply is not the capacity to grow a big city club there. This club will get out of league 1 even with SISU in charge. In the Championship and beyond we will need capacity. The Ricoh is still the obvious choice. We are in a strong position there tbh. Wasp can not survive there long term without a supporting tenant in my opinion. Time will come when we are the focus there with 30k crowds and the pressure on Wasp to deal with 'ownership' rights will crop up again and again...particularly if we have new owners and are sitting in the Premier league or even holding steady in the Championship.They need us now and we can and should find a way to work together and believe ultimately they will.
The alternative is some sort of home at the BPA while we wait and see Wasp struggle with overhead. Then come pouncing back and try to win the Ricoh deal back...really? Even SISU can't be thinking of going down that kind of road again. The light in the tunnel has been on this last twelve months. TM and MV - finally a proper management team, we very nearly joined in the fun of promotion. SISU I believe will encourage them with one of the best budgets in the league this coming season (it doesn't take much to do that in league 1) and I honestly believe we will get promoted. 30k at the Ricoh come April time is not unlikely as fans interest peaks. And that's what we are as a club folks. We are not (I hope) going to condemn ourselves to the BPA and step backwards in time and start acting like we never were a premier league outfit for 34 years prior to our dramatic slide. If it were my business I would keep us at the Ricoh and aim for promotions. Let the rest take care of itself as the success accumulates. It was always going to be difficult for WASP to sustain the Ricoh and keep it for their sole use while ignoring a one team big city football club standing on the sidelines. For that they were naive and the council at the time stupid.

They need us sooooo much that they are refusing to negotiate and have not moved on any single point.
And Pax... there is more than one Wasp.