oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
I know there are a lot of similar threads relating to this or elements of it so Nick if you need to move this carry on. This is part a summation and part an opinion, I will try to make clear when its my opinion. Sorry its so long
Otium trading as CCFC
opinion - some reason for optimism on the pitch following how the season ended but go back a few weeks before that and you can see why that optimism might be fragile after that dreadful run of form. Also it will be a new first team squad with quite a few new more experienced professionals required to augment the youngsters. Add to that clubs are apparently looking to offer our manager something better then is the confidence justified at this time.
- Our turnover even at the Ricoh gives CCFC some financial clout in terms of player budget whilst in L1. Whichever way you look at it our SCMP budget is certainly in the top 10 in the division. How that is used is really the question.
- Overall the club is between a very big rock and a very hard place as regards to progression to anything better. There is no doubt that it should safely be able to survive comfortably in L1. But it has no assets really to speak of, the players have little value and starlets unproven, the only property is Ryton and that is not much in the scheme of things, on the other side there are large debts and equity liabilities that (a) hamper additional finance and (b) interest from third parties. All assets are of course charged to ARVO
The owner has no real interest in football and has decided the club must be self sufficient - no long term finance going forward only an emergency fund that seems to be repaid by player sales (opinion)
We are told that the club needs more turnover, its vital, yet that same club does deals that limit access to turnover and improved SCMP calculation (F&B, Merchandise, Match progs). What is really going on is that they are cutting cost and risk - they have no choice because they need to be cash flow positive, and as of 31/05/2015 they still were not. Will 2016 be better cash flow wise, despite the Maddison sale it is hard to think it will be when we got the budgets wrong apparently (opinion)
It will be interesting to see what the final season ticket total is - the price rise will have made some baulk and if Mowbray were to go .....
If we get promoted then Ricoh or BPA I am not sure how it will allow us to compete with the clubs in that division that have many millions more to spend
The first responsibility for the well being and future of CCFC is with the directors and owners of the club. The directors cannot agree to anything without the owner signing it off, and she is interested first and foremost in her investors.
Stay or go
We don't know do we.
No one actually knows outside of CCFC and Wasps exactly what the current deal is. We certainly do not know what the 17 points are that Anderson raised with Wasps. So the base starting point as to which is better is unknown as is the potential going forward. What we do know is that Anderson said that a deal couldn't be done on those 17 points, placing the responsibility on the Wasps business model and liabilities. I really do not buy in to that because on the other side CCFC at present has very little to offer only perhaps and maybe, the biggest thing being they have no funds to offer to buy in to any other income streams. Given Wasps apparent business model then it is not a great leap to think the one thing that will tempt them is hard cash, CCFC do not have access to any. The reason is a mix of both I feel
Butts Park Arena. Is it better? , is owning our own ground better? Pretty clear ownership will be shared outside of CCFC (opinion) We can all have opinions and that is all we can have but until we know the base point then can compare the financials including the turnover and costs then we just do not know do we. We are not likely to be told either, simple let alone difficult financial questions are rarely answered properly by the CCFC directors and owners. In any case we wont own BPA. Capacity, access, and other issues are all concerns, yes there is the social community benefit, but for our club unless it stacks up financially then the rest is irrelevant. Unless it stacks up financially and allows us to progress then it is a recipe for disaster. (opinion)
The trouble is the recent press releases and efforts to back track have not helped clarify things. In my opinion what has gone on has placed CCFC at great risk, probably there has been no greater risk since 2007. Declaring cant do a deal with Wasps all but closes that door to improved deal. Wasps know we have nowhere else to go for probably 4 years why would they offer more, or partnership in some form to a temporary tenant that makes up less than 3% of their total turnover? The BPA articles by Reid have to have come from somewhere and the first was late 2015 so this is no sudden idea. But the project apparently is not close to being outline let alone ready to go. What if it doesn't happen - it isn't just CCC that could obstruct this.
We as a club are at considerable risk, and there is no certainty or improvement for 4 or 5 years it would seem (opinion)
Academy
This it seems is seriously at risk. This is our future. I am concerned that more isn't being made of this by Club, Trust, SCG, FANS etc This is the thing that needs solving before BPA
CCC
Clearly haven't been saints in this. However so far there hasn't been one aspect that they have been proven to be legally wrong. That may change. Yes people and reporters and fans can make claims of "we weren't offered the same" of " they were double dealing" or very understandable moral indignation but if you have litigious owners of the club then you can expect CCC to focus on the legal aspects not the moral or social ones. Right to do that legally yes but it doesn't help CCFC.
The insistence on no more court cases is understandable but equally very disappointing when you view the social and cultural aspects. They wont block planning applications but they don't have to they could claim inability to fund, or agree infrastructure and that will hamper a BPA project. That wont hurt CRFC but it could seriously affect CCFC. Time as they say is not on CCFC's side, CCC can sit and wait
Wasps
Sadly they are very much in the box seat at the Ricoh. That makes getting them to "give" income to CCFC difficult not just because of their business model but also what private business "gives" away its income streams.
The senior management at Wasps are sharp operators and are not easily bullied. Whilst they have a general rugby community responsibility they do not have a wider social/community responsibility that a local authority certainly has. They are not an easy target to bully and are quite ruthless in their aims.
As for CCFC waiting for them to go bust, saying a CCFC fan boycott will make a difference, Wasps have to repay £34m and 2m in interest so cant afford to be here etc etc...... good luck with that because in my opinion I do not see the problem Wasps have as it stands. The exit from the bond will have been planned before the issue was made - If we cant see how they can accumulate £34m its a good bet they don't either and planned an alternative.
Is there a deal that could be done - probably. Would it be better than moving - who knows. But I suspect it will require hard cash and I suspect an end to any legal actions involving Wasps
They are not anti CRFC, I doubt they see them as competition. But even so they are presently working with CRFC in the City of Rugby scheme. Like it or not piggy backing on the success of Wasps raises the City of Coventry profile (opinion)
Final thought on Wasps. They are doing a very good job at community infiltration just how deep that will be in 4 or 5 years time when CCFC can move in to BPA could seriously hamper CCFC's progression.
SISU (opinion)
Never has been about anything other than their investors.
Is it costing them to fund the court actions - possibly no cost at all if they have put the case costs out to be funded by third party litigation funders, they will pick up the costs win or lose.
I know the club directors say the club is separate from the owners but if that's the case why is JR1 evidence based on the harm to the club and JR2 specifically names Otium as plaintiff?
To expect SISU to back the club whatever is naiive
To expect SISU to sell whilst the court cases continue is naiive. Oh and a referral to the European Court will not be affected by Brexit and could take 4 years to happen
Their insistence on legal cases alienates fans and even keeps the fan base fractured. More importantly perhaps it alienates local decision makers. All at a time they need everyone pulling together
They are used to taking on companies in trouble with little backing, this hasn't been the case with CCC. Now they cant bully/persuade Wasps for similar reasons - Wasps feel secure in what they have and are growing it
Question though, Why the sudden aggressive press statement, why the need to push BPA, why the flurry of legal activity - are they under pressure, are their backers or partners uneasy? Just a thought nothing more
Bottom Line (opinion)
Hard to think that for the next 4 to 5 years, possibly for much longer, that CCFC are anything but screwed. CCFC is seriously at risk
Otium trading as CCFC
opinion - some reason for optimism on the pitch following how the season ended but go back a few weeks before that and you can see why that optimism might be fragile after that dreadful run of form. Also it will be a new first team squad with quite a few new more experienced professionals required to augment the youngsters. Add to that clubs are apparently looking to offer our manager something better then is the confidence justified at this time.
- Our turnover even at the Ricoh gives CCFC some financial clout in terms of player budget whilst in L1. Whichever way you look at it our SCMP budget is certainly in the top 10 in the division. How that is used is really the question.
- Overall the club is between a very big rock and a very hard place as regards to progression to anything better. There is no doubt that it should safely be able to survive comfortably in L1. But it has no assets really to speak of, the players have little value and starlets unproven, the only property is Ryton and that is not much in the scheme of things, on the other side there are large debts and equity liabilities that (a) hamper additional finance and (b) interest from third parties. All assets are of course charged to ARVO
The owner has no real interest in football and has decided the club must be self sufficient - no long term finance going forward only an emergency fund that seems to be repaid by player sales (opinion)
We are told that the club needs more turnover, its vital, yet that same club does deals that limit access to turnover and improved SCMP calculation (F&B, Merchandise, Match progs). What is really going on is that they are cutting cost and risk - they have no choice because they need to be cash flow positive, and as of 31/05/2015 they still were not. Will 2016 be better cash flow wise, despite the Maddison sale it is hard to think it will be when we got the budgets wrong apparently (opinion)
It will be interesting to see what the final season ticket total is - the price rise will have made some baulk and if Mowbray were to go .....
If we get promoted then Ricoh or BPA I am not sure how it will allow us to compete with the clubs in that division that have many millions more to spend
The first responsibility for the well being and future of CCFC is with the directors and owners of the club. The directors cannot agree to anything without the owner signing it off, and she is interested first and foremost in her investors.
Stay or go
We don't know do we.
No one actually knows outside of CCFC and Wasps exactly what the current deal is. We certainly do not know what the 17 points are that Anderson raised with Wasps. So the base starting point as to which is better is unknown as is the potential going forward. What we do know is that Anderson said that a deal couldn't be done on those 17 points, placing the responsibility on the Wasps business model and liabilities. I really do not buy in to that because on the other side CCFC at present has very little to offer only perhaps and maybe, the biggest thing being they have no funds to offer to buy in to any other income streams. Given Wasps apparent business model then it is not a great leap to think the one thing that will tempt them is hard cash, CCFC do not have access to any. The reason is a mix of both I feel
Butts Park Arena. Is it better? , is owning our own ground better? Pretty clear ownership will be shared outside of CCFC (opinion) We can all have opinions and that is all we can have but until we know the base point then can compare the financials including the turnover and costs then we just do not know do we. We are not likely to be told either, simple let alone difficult financial questions are rarely answered properly by the CCFC directors and owners. In any case we wont own BPA. Capacity, access, and other issues are all concerns, yes there is the social community benefit, but for our club unless it stacks up financially then the rest is irrelevant. Unless it stacks up financially and allows us to progress then it is a recipe for disaster. (opinion)
The trouble is the recent press releases and efforts to back track have not helped clarify things. In my opinion what has gone on has placed CCFC at great risk, probably there has been no greater risk since 2007. Declaring cant do a deal with Wasps all but closes that door to improved deal. Wasps know we have nowhere else to go for probably 4 years why would they offer more, or partnership in some form to a temporary tenant that makes up less than 3% of their total turnover? The BPA articles by Reid have to have come from somewhere and the first was late 2015 so this is no sudden idea. But the project apparently is not close to being outline let alone ready to go. What if it doesn't happen - it isn't just CCC that could obstruct this.
We as a club are at considerable risk, and there is no certainty or improvement for 4 or 5 years it would seem (opinion)
Academy
This it seems is seriously at risk. This is our future. I am concerned that more isn't being made of this by Club, Trust, SCG, FANS etc This is the thing that needs solving before BPA
CCC
Clearly haven't been saints in this. However so far there hasn't been one aspect that they have been proven to be legally wrong. That may change. Yes people and reporters and fans can make claims of "we weren't offered the same" of " they were double dealing" or very understandable moral indignation but if you have litigious owners of the club then you can expect CCC to focus on the legal aspects not the moral or social ones. Right to do that legally yes but it doesn't help CCFC.
The insistence on no more court cases is understandable but equally very disappointing when you view the social and cultural aspects. They wont block planning applications but they don't have to they could claim inability to fund, or agree infrastructure and that will hamper a BPA project. That wont hurt CRFC but it could seriously affect CCFC. Time as they say is not on CCFC's side, CCC can sit and wait
Wasps
Sadly they are very much in the box seat at the Ricoh. That makes getting them to "give" income to CCFC difficult not just because of their business model but also what private business "gives" away its income streams.
The senior management at Wasps are sharp operators and are not easily bullied. Whilst they have a general rugby community responsibility they do not have a wider social/community responsibility that a local authority certainly has. They are not an easy target to bully and are quite ruthless in their aims.
As for CCFC waiting for them to go bust, saying a CCFC fan boycott will make a difference, Wasps have to repay £34m and 2m in interest so cant afford to be here etc etc...... good luck with that because in my opinion I do not see the problem Wasps have as it stands. The exit from the bond will have been planned before the issue was made - If we cant see how they can accumulate £34m its a good bet they don't either and planned an alternative.
Is there a deal that could be done - probably. Would it be better than moving - who knows. But I suspect it will require hard cash and I suspect an end to any legal actions involving Wasps
They are not anti CRFC, I doubt they see them as competition. But even so they are presently working with CRFC in the City of Rugby scheme. Like it or not piggy backing on the success of Wasps raises the City of Coventry profile (opinion)
Final thought on Wasps. They are doing a very good job at community infiltration just how deep that will be in 4 or 5 years time when CCFC can move in to BPA could seriously hamper CCFC's progression.
SISU (opinion)
Never has been about anything other than their investors.
Is it costing them to fund the court actions - possibly no cost at all if they have put the case costs out to be funded by third party litigation funders, they will pick up the costs win or lose.
I know the club directors say the club is separate from the owners but if that's the case why is JR1 evidence based on the harm to the club and JR2 specifically names Otium as plaintiff?
To expect SISU to back the club whatever is naiive
To expect SISU to sell whilst the court cases continue is naiive. Oh and a referral to the European Court will not be affected by Brexit and could take 4 years to happen
Their insistence on legal cases alienates fans and even keeps the fan base fractured. More importantly perhaps it alienates local decision makers. All at a time they need everyone pulling together
They are used to taking on companies in trouble with little backing, this hasn't been the case with CCC. Now they cant bully/persuade Wasps for similar reasons - Wasps feel secure in what they have and are growing it
Question though, Why the sudden aggressive press statement, why the need to push BPA, why the flurry of legal activity - are they under pressure, are their backers or partners uneasy? Just a thought nothing more
Bottom Line (opinion)
Hard to think that for the next 4 to 5 years, possibly for much longer, that CCFC are anything but screwed. CCFC is seriously at risk
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