Planning application for Higgs submitted by Wasps (3 Viewers)

[chiefdave]

As I have said before the indoor pitch can be used in the evenings when Wasps have gone.

Which would mean we lose our Cat 2 status.

 

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[duffer]

I think that the simple truth here is that having sold the Ricoh to Wasps, the council will do everything possible to support them because if it fails they will look incredibly stupid. So there's no way this falls over at planning stage, because the council will support it via fair means and foul. We've already seen the sly, underhand manouvering to try to stop any deal at the BPA, again because the Council want to force the club to stay at the Ricoh - not for the club's benefit, but for the landlords. And now what we're getting is something similar from CSF - a registered charity with the stated aims of...

"PROVISION OF A VARIETY OF SPORT, RECREATION, EDUCATION AND TRAINING ACTIVITIES WITHIN IDENTIFIED AREAS OF UNDER REPRESENTATION AND NEIGHBOURHOOD RENEWAL."

With apologies for the caps, I lifted that straight off the official charities register http://apps.charitycommission.gov.u...steredCharityNumber=700409&SubsidiaryNumber=0

I'm not sure we can stop this at the planning stage, but I'd certainly question whether the charity is meeting its stated aims here. The only thing the community gets out of this development is the added occasional use of an indoor rugby pitch - that's not something I recall as being a pressing need for community sport in the city. In return we'll lose the netball courts and a football pitch. But more significantly, we'll lose the football academy, which draws in and provides opportunity to far more children than the signficantly less popular game of rugby.

I wonder if someone might get Dave Moorcroft to comment - he's a keen CCFC fan as I recall, and also a trustee for CSF. Is he happy that the charity is behaving as it should - it's just that to me this seems a lot more about money than about the provision of sports facilities for the under represented.

 

[Warwickhunt]

Someone needs to get clarification from the FA. You say ccfc don't get exclusive use, but do you know whether if ccfc need it that non-ccfc bookings are cancelled? Do ccfc get primacy? What about those 16-18 year olds thah have left school? Have you ever been down on a Saturday morning when all the pitches are in use. Losing 2 pitches, and probably the main 2 pitches will have a big impact on the academy. What about wasps academy? Won't they want yo use the facilities? Won't most of theirs be school age and only use it in the evenings?

I feel wasps are spinning this.

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be able to use the Butts because WASP have stolen all their youngsters anyway

 

[duffer]

Pursue the offer with Wasps.
As I have said before the indoor pitch can be used in the evenings when Wasps have gone.
We usually get kicked off at 6pm for the academy.
There are plenty of outdoor pitches available (Wasps nicking 2 of them). The outdoor astro turf pitch is still available.
It could work and certainly gives the academy an option if the swimming pool does go ahead.
Worse case scenario is the Wasps application gets turned down and the swimming pool goes ahead.

Mate, every one of your posts is something along the lines of 'cave in and do a deal with Wasps'. I understand that suits your self-interest, but I just wondered if you ever thought beyond that.

Did you ever have any fight in you or love for the club, or does making a few bob simply trump all of that?

 

[chiefdave]

I wonder if someone might get Dave Moorcroft to comment - he's a keen CCFC fan as I recall, and also a trustee for CSF.

Think he's the Executive Director.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I think that the simple truth here is that having sold the Ricoh to Wasps, the council will do everything possible to support them because if it fails they will look incredibly stupid. So there's no way this falls over at planning stage, because the council will support it via fair means and foul. We've already seen the sly, underhand manouvering to try to stop any deal at the BPA, again because the Council want to force the club to stay at the Ricoh - not for the club's benefit, but for the landlords. And now what we're getting is something similar from CSF - a registered charity with the stated aims of...

"PROVISION OF A VARIETY OF SPORT, RECREATION, EDUCATION AND TRAINING ACTIVITIES WITHIN IDENTIFIED AREAS OF UNDER REPRESENTATION AND NEIGHBOURHOOD RENEWAL."

With apologies for the caps, I lifted that straight off the official charities register http://apps.charitycommission.gov.u...steredCharityNumber=700409&SubsidiaryNumber=0

I'm not sure we can stop this at the planning stage, but I'd certainly question whether the charity is meeting its stated aims here. The only thing the community gets out of this development is the added occasional use of an indoor rugby pitch - that's not something I recall as being a pressing need for community sport in the city. In return we'll lose the netball courts and a football pitch. But more significantly, we'll lose the football academy, which draws in and provides opportunity to far more children than the signficantly less popular game of rugby.

I wonder if someone might get Dave Moorcroft to comment - he's a keen CCFC fan as I recall, and also a trustee for CSF. Is he happy that the charity is behaving as it should - it's just that to me this seems a lot more about money than about the provision of sports facilities for the under represented.

Not sure whether or not the freeholder is working within its own stated aims either:

The objects of the charity are:-
(a) Such charitable purposes as the trustees may select which shall benefit wholly or mainly the inhabitants of the area within 25 miles of the centre of Coventry.
(b) The charity fund shall be applied as far as may be practicable in the promotion of child welfare and particularly the welfare of under-privileged children.
(c) The trustees of the charity may co-operate with or contribute to any other charity having objects substantially similar to the objects of the charity.

It is the aim of the trustees to reach as wide a selection of the community as possible within the geographical limitations. They are happy to receive applications for grants from local bodies or associations and from national organisations who can show that any grant from the charity would be used to benefit persons resident within the above geographical area. The trustees do not normally entertain applications from individuals.

That said, who knows, the training centre exclusively for the use of a professional rugby club may achieve some of the above aims.

 

[italiahorse]

Which would mean we lose our Cat 2 status.

Forget I said it.
We should give the fuck up and roll over and die !!

 

[chiefdave]

We should give the fuck up and roll over and die !!

Nobody is saying that. Just saying don't swallow the PR line that we can use it when Wasps aren't there and it will all be fine. That won't meet the academy requirements.

 

[italiahorse]

Mate, every one of your posts is something along the lines of 'cave in and do a deal with Wasps'. I understand that suits your self-interest, but I just wondered if you ever thought beyond that.

Did you ever have any fight in you or love for the club, or does making a few bob simply trump all of that?

That's exactly what Sisu would say.
Sometimes you have to admit defeat and make the most of it.
You can either roll over and die or look at the opportunity available.
There is a chance we can maintain our Academy status at the Higgs but the only negative it will be renting from Wasps.
But hey, lets fight the Council, Higgs and Wasps and although we will have fuck at the end of it all, it's better to have fought and lost than never to have fought at all.
Bring on the court battle even though it may not need to happen.

 

[italiahorse]

Nobody is saying that. Just saying don't swallow the PR line that we can use it when Wasps aren't there and it will all be fine. That won't meet the academy requirements.

Then get the blessed details before you start digging the trenches.

 

[stupot07]

Question - Do we look for long term solutions to the Academy, pressure decision makers to solve it or do we just say lets moan complain, look for reasons why not then give up ?

There is nothing mentioned above that is not possible of being solved for the overall benefit of the Academy. Might take compromise on both sides but it is doable

Was once told "I don't do compromise I tell people what I want" - it doesn't work

Surely our role is to pressure all sides to get this sorted out whether that's at the current site or elsewhere - failure to solve this is not an option

Why would wasps want to compromise? They are spending a lot of money on the facilities, they will quite rightly want first dibs on the them. We will be able to use then when they dont want or need them. How is that a compromise?

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[italiahorse]

We rented the stadium off ACL and now we rent off Wasps.
We currently rent the academy off Higgs and we could rent off Wasps.
We are skint, we can't build are own facilities yet, so we need to rent until we can.
Get the best deal we can and tread water for a several years.

 

[italiahorse]

Why would wasps want to compromise? They are spending a lot of money on the facilities, they will quite rightly want first dibs on the them. We will be able to use then when they dont want or need them. How is that a compromise?

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Maybe ...
They will want us to help with the costs of the facilities.
They are available from 3pm onwards which is when the academy seems to run.
The outdoor pitches are still available including the astro turf pitch.

 

[chiefdave]

Then get the blessed details before you start digging the trenches.

What details do you think we need? It is clear that the existing indoor pitch will be lost. We have an offer to use the Wasps facility when they aren't using it. That does not meet the requirements for a Cat 2 academy.

Breed was asked by the CT if the academy could remain and didn't answer the question. Its a simple yes / no. If the option is there for the academy to remain why would he not say so?

 

[covcity4life]

so fuking depressing supporting this club

 

[torchomatic]

so fuking depressing supporting this club

The views of some of the supporters is even more so.

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[chiefdave]

Armstrong is in the CT saying they picked Higgs out of the 17 sites as its in the city centre and close to the Ricoh. Can someone get him a map of Coventry.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

One alternative point of view is that SISU can opt to change the academy from cat 2 to cat 3 and reduce their cost base (which may be a requirement anyway). Each level sets out a minimum requirement in terms of facilities, staff and even the minimum number of hours of coaching that should be offered. It does not mean that having a cat 3 academy has to reduce its standards or what it offers over a cat 2 . It does however give the club a more flexible approach in to how they hire any facilities , what permanent staff are required etc... it may actually give the clubs some needed financial benefits for the first team.

This approach was adopted by Watford in 2012 when they opted to go from a Cat 1 to Cat 3 was a very emotional discussion with the fans at the time but it does not seem to have held them back.

If CCFC / SISU really believe that a Cat 2 academy is required then they have all the necessary facilities that they can rent in accordance with the requirements. If they need to look at operational expenses across the board and the academy classification will be changed to save some money then that is a different argument. The club need to determine what £ 's value is added to the bottom line of CCFC by having a cat 2 academy. If they can be equally effective with cat 3 and over deliver on the minimum requirements and save money well why not.

But lets keep the emotion at the front so that it clouds everything!

The club will lose a 500k grant if they lose cat 2 status. So you are asking the club to provide the same service with 500k less funds.

Other negatives we will find it harder to attract the best young players as they will choose other cat 2/1 clubs. We get less compensation for any youth players who get poached. We get put into a division with other cat 3 clubs so won't be testing ourselves against the top teams.

 

[Ian1779]

Get the best deal we can and tread water for a several years.

There is no deal to be done. Not now, not ever. What part of that is difficult to understand?

And before you refer to the article, quote, Q&A, chat over a cuppa or any other press release from Wasps or their mouthpiece the CET.. It's all bollocks.

 

[The Reverend Skyblue]

Reading other sites that Cov supporters post on I can't believe they actually want total destruction of our 133 year old football club so to get one over evil SISU . I'm honestly gobsmacked people think this.

Everyone dislikes the groups involved and all their underhand shenanigans, but for Christ sake to want your club to go into liquidation so SISU will suffer is beyond shame imo.

SISU won't suffer if we go bust or not, they don't care and will move onto their next project, but no let's all leave the club to die a painful death so one side wins.

Some of our support are an absolute disgrace, the club is better off without them when SISU finally do move on, which they inevitably will.
They still call themselves a supporter of Coventry City FC, how dare they do that

 

[tisza]

Armstrong is in the CT saying they picked Higgs out of the 17 sites as its in the city centre and close to the Ricoh. Can someone get him a map of Coventry.

can someone get the list of 17 sites because the agents we are paying only seem to have come up with 3 or 4 options in the last 3 years?

 

[ccfcway]

can someone get the list of 17 sites because the agents we are paying only seem to have come up with 3 or 4 options in the last 3 years?

and the 17 requests ccfc made of Wasps

and the list of everyone in East 17

 

[LB87ccfc]

Reading other sites that Cov supporters post on I can't believe they actually want total destruction of our 133 year old football club so to get one over evil SISU . I'm honestly gobsmacked people think this.

Everyone dislikes the groups involved and all their underhand shenanigans, but for Christ sake to want your club to go into liquidation so SISU will suffer is beyond shame imo.

SISU won't suffer if we go bust or not, they don't care and will move onto their ne t project but let's all leave the club to die a painful death so one side wins.

Some of our support are an absolute disgrace, the club is better off without them when SISU finally do move on, which they inevitably will.
They still call themselves a supporter of Coventry City FC, how dare they do that

Exactly this.

For one we as a fan base are too soft, the trust is too soft and in bed with both groups, I DID state on this forum whilst at Northampton and long before wasps come to town, the council were stabbing us in the back with behind closed doors meetings etc, but I was laughed at and told don't be silly when I said its the council we should ALSO be directing our attention too.

How its all come to roost.

I cannot think for one minute of another set of fans in the country who would just watch and take a step back from what is happening here, its an utter disgrace, a once proud football club is dying on its arse and no fucker gives a shit as their so directed towards one party when BOTH parties are as bad as each other!

CCC will NEVER let Coventry City Football Club develop and grow under SISU's regime, the vandetta and personal opinions sit too deep now, even with Lucas gone, nothing will change.

Its time for real commited action to take place.

Also just to drop it in their, every time you walk up the Ricoh park your car in the car park, or purchase something INSIDE the stadium , cup of coffee, a beer, rest assured the football club sees 15% of that money... the rest goes to our new friends who simply do not want us anywhere near the Ricoh and now will destroy our last vital possession.

Food for thought.

 

[Monners]

I don't buy anything at the Ricoh now. I even opted out of Springsteen to avoid lining their pockets

Edit: and the pockets of that parasite Italiahorse

 

[stupot07]

Maybe ...
They will want us to help with the costs of the facilities.
They are available from 3pm onwards which is when the academy seems to run.
The outdoor pitches are still available including the astro turf pitch.

They said we can use it for up to 3 hours in the evening, what about weekends? What about in the day for the u18s that are on YTS doing part time footy/part time college? What about the fact the FA requirements say exclusive access at all times (ie the academy gets primacy). What about the SBiTC Saturday morning sessions, and holiday day time sessions? What about losing 2 of the main grass pitches? What happens when their academy moves up?

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[Monners]

We can use the RIcoh for an hour after the game - and then they pull the bar shutters down and usher you out. Anybody else attend the supporters club awards after the last home game. Made to feel like unwanted guests in our own city. Fuck off Italiahorse

 

[The Reverend Skyblue]

When the going gets tough ,and by God it's been a tough few years, what does most of our supposed supporters do, they get going, some even to the Franchise.

 

[Gaz71]

Just at the Higgs now and there is a camera crew setting up with some guy in a suit with a load of paperwork in his hands.

 

[italiahorse]

We can use the RIcoh for an hour after the game - and then they pull the bar shutters down and usher you out. Anybody else attend the supporters club awards after the last home game. Made to feel like unwanted guests in our own city. Fuck off Italiahorse

I'm trying to be pragmatic in the dire situation we are in.
People don't seem to want to pursue a solution offered by Wasps and seem to prefer to play victim.
It's where we are and Wasps are going nowhere.
We can either talk to them or give up.
They seem to think that we can maintain our academy status with there help so lets pursue it.
I've been on CCFC side since 1967 so I'm going nowhere.
You can throw your teddy out your pram but lets hop Sisu don't.

 

[italiahorse]

I don't buy anything at the Ricoh now. I even opted out of Springsteen to avoid lining their pockets

We can use the RIcoh for an hour after the game - and then they pull the bar shutters down and usher you out. Anybody else attend the supporters club awards after the last home game. Made to feel like unwanted guests in our own city. Fuck off Italiahorse

Make your mind up.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

Just at the Higgs now and there is a camera crew setting up with some guy in a suit with a load of paperwork in his hands.

They're getting ready to film my naked sky-dive protest.....

the plan is to land on the roof & they can zoom in to a close up of my cock which has "london wasps rfc franchise cunts..........why don't you suck this?" written on it in black & yellow stripes.....

see you on the news !!

 

[Ian1779]

They seem to think that we can maintain our academy status with there help so lets pursue it.

I'm sorry Italia - but they are spinning us lies. They know damn well that the 2 can't coexist, they are just trying to soften the blow and use SISU previous lack of strategy as an excuse.

 

[oldfiver]

ignificantly, we'll lose the football academy, which draws in and provides opportunity to far more children than the signficantly less popular game of rugby.

I wonder if someone might get Dave Moorcroft to comment - he's a keen CCFC fan as I recall, and also a trustee for CSF. Is he happy that the charity is behaving as it should - it's just that to me this seems a lot more about money than about the provision of sports facilities for the under represented.

I am told CRFC approached Moorcroft back in March to discuss their training requirements - he said he would discuss but then never responded to further mails. They now know why

 

[italiahorse]

I'm sorry Italia - but they are spinning us lies. They know damn well that the 2 can't coexist, they are just trying to soften the blow and use SISU previous lack of strategy as an excuse.

But still pursue it.
Armstrong has offered to help so lets get all the details.
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/wasps-offer-help-coventry-city-11416081

 

[Monners]

Make your mind up.

I buy a ticket from CCFC for a CCFC game at the Ricoh, I don't buy anything there. The bar shutters are pulled down after and hour and out we all we all had to shuffle. As you appear simple as well as selfish, here goes: - I personally didn't buy anything from the bar. Others did, which is their choice of course.

You are an embarrassment to our club (just to clarify, that's Cov City, not Wasps)