Brainstorm (14 Viewers)

[martcov]

Yes it's a settlement where both parties agree to settle out of court a legal dispute.

This has to be agreed by both parties without consideration to other influences.

The settlement would not involve Wasos but the party the club is taking action against - the council and ACL in its prior guise.

So the two actions are not mutually exclusive and the council wouldn't agree to it in a million years - their legal team would block it for very obvious reasons given prior history.

I would have thought the council would be happy if legal actions were stopped.

 

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[Grendel]

It would be legal

The dispute is between ACL from the council and Higgs days and Otium

The lease would be ACL owned by wasps holdings and CCFC.

They are two entirely different parties so the two are unrelated so think about that.

Think also if wasps holdings really would make this a requirement rather than background noise.

 

[Grendel]

I would have thought the council would be happy if legal actions were stopped.

It wouldn't stop would it. If a third party unrelated to a dispute is saying drop an action against another party in order to stay in their property - a property that they purchased off said third party - what would that suggest?

 

[martcov]

It wouldn't stop would it. If a third party unrelated to a dispute is saying drop an action against another party in order to stay in their property - a property that they purchased off said third party - what would that suggest?

All parties sit at a table in a locked room and aren't allowed out until a Solution to the Stadium and academy problem is found. Somewhere along the line the JRs must stop. Doesn't matter which party insists or what the trade off is. You cannot negotiate in this atmosphere - as we can see.

 

[Grendel]

All parties sit at a table in a locked room and aren't allowed out until a Solution to the Stadium and academy problem is found. Somewhere along the line the JRs must stop. Doesn't matter which party insists or what the trade off is. You cannot negotiate in this atmosphere - as we can see.

Wasps can - they've offered a deal.

 

[martcov]

Wasps can - they've offered a deal.

What's the deal?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

If we flood a Wasps game, then the next week why don't we all boycott a CCFC game when we could have a mass protest/kickabout outside the council house.

If the latter would guarantee the former, I'd go with it.

 

[Grendel]

What's the deal?

They have outlined what they see as the terms of a deal they would accept.

You see clearly not stupid so let's just for arguments sake say the offer was £1 million a year for a 10 year deal.

Now are you seriously telling me a pre condition would be that Otium drop a judicial review appeal?

Anderson has entered proceedings with good intent. His points are obviously at the other end of the spectrum but wasps are confident they can go it alone.

Ultimately why would they move from what they want? If the club left tomorrow it would be a blip on their balance sheet.

That's why talk of legal action is hilarious really as a block. They hold all the cards.

 

[martcov]

They have outlined what they see as the terms of a deal they would accept.

You see clearly not stupid so let's just for arguments sake say the offer was £1 million a year for a 10 year deal.

Now are you seriously telling me a pre condition would be that Otium drop a judicial review appeal?

Anderson has entered proceedings with good intent. His points are obviously at the other end of the spectrum but wasps are confident they can go it alone.

Ultimately why would they move from what they want? If the club left tomorrow it would be a blip on their balance sheet.

That's why talk of legal action is hilarious really as a block. They hold all the cards.

I would say that there is more to this than meets the eye, but that the JRs are an impediment to a peace agreement. Wasps have put everything on hold because of the background noise and they are in bed with CCC and own ACL. They took over ACL with all rights and all liabilities - maybe the JRs present a possiblity liability and they want it cleared.

 

[Grendel]

I would say that there is more to this than meets the eye, but that the JRs are an impediment to a peace agreement. Wasps have put everything on hold because of the background noise and they are in bed with CCC and own ACL. They took over ACL with all rights and all liabilities - maybe the JRs present a possiblity liability and they want it cleared.

They'd agree terms on their terms.

And frankly if those terms are so wide from where the clubs position is why bother dropping legal action?

No company would be railroaded like that. Especially when the action is against a third party.

Not a chance and to be honest as a libertarian I would support sisu all the way of that was the case. Which it isn't.

 

[martcov]

They'd agree terms on their terms.

And frankly if those terms are so wide from where the clubs position is why bother dropping legal action?

No company would be railroaded like that. Especially when the action is against a third party.

Not a chance and to be honest as a libertarian I would support sisu all the way of that was the case. Which it isn't.

Because the negotiations are on hold. I think - rightly or wrongly - nothing positive will Happen as long as the JRs are there. Trench warfare. Both sides dug in.

 

[ccfc1234]

I am 100% behind this idea Grendel and hate how SISU are so downright hated by many fans they are oblivious/dont care about the bigger picture.
As for ideas, big business hates people power and disruption caused by people in their spare time can cost businesses tens of thousands and become unsustainable. It seems the Wasps owner has properly sucked up to ann Lucas et al and its paying off.

I think the football match at the council would be great for symbolism but do this alongside 100's of FOI (freedom on information) requests around this topic and the headache caused would be a big internal message to the council leaders.
As for wasps I would urge all ur friends who go to games to instead head to cov rugby instead of supporting a franchise club more obsessed with profit that people.
I would also like to explore paying for some legal and non slanderous anti wasps propaganda. Have some good concepts and advertising has never been cheaper and more effective than now with the advances in tech.

Time to water the plants ☺

 

[COVKIDSNEVERQUIT]

I know we've had some threads around the issue but I think we need to get some ideas out on the table and decide what actions can actually be taken.

The problem is the fragmentation of the fanbase. Blame apportionment and re-writing of history is far from helpful. My belief always has been that Wasps have wanted a cheap stadium for many years and Richardson identified this opportunity and it's why he purchased wasps. Th subsequent events have been all conduits to wasps and the councils desire to bring this club here. There see wasps fans who equally concur with this viewpoint.

I believe now wasps want the club gone. I believe that this City of Rugby strategy is ultimately an attempt to get both union and league at the ground. Wasps I'm afraid have huge delusions of grandure. They believe wasps will be some sort of global brand and I'm sure the only other club they will ever integrate will be the rugby league club.

There have definitely been plants on this forum. That says a lot about their intent and desire to always be the positive good guy in this saga.

Their hold on local media is incredible and I an not sure how this has been done. Even CWR is skewed hugely to them. Today has been a walking advert for them.

There is in my mind no doubt that if wasps remain in coventry this club as well as the rugby club will be marginalised - I actually think the football club will cease to exist.

Whatever peoples views I personally find this a very sad and upsetting prospect. The football club has been a huge part of my life (often to my families annoyance) and the thought that it's going to be removed is not something that I can comprehend.

The future looks grim - with wasps it has no hope.

So can we think of something's we can do to try and counter this threat?

I would urge people to at least look at their forum. There is an arrogance - laughing at football fans for their poor grammar, claiming conentry needs wasps more than the other way round and telling the club to find some money and build something itself for once (that individual clearly doesn't appreciate irony) but at the same time there is nervous uncertainty. A concern if the placid and actually compliant fan base started to turn.

It is this that gives us our only hope. There is a lack of assurance - they know they have years before they can be fully entrenched.

So - what can we do? I've some thoughts - but what about anyone else?

I would ask this thread does not descend into the normal divergent blame game nonsense. If people don't share the view fine - but those that do - what do we think?

I know we've had some threads around the issue but I think we need to get some ideas out on the table and decide what actions can actually be taken.

The problem is the fragmentation of the fanbase. Blame apportionment and re-writing of history is far from helpful. My belief always has been that Wasps have wanted a cheap stadium for many years and Richardson identified this opportunity and it's why he purchased wasps. The subsequent events have been all conduits to wasps and the councils desire to bring this club here. There see wasps fans who equally concur with this viewpoint.

I believe now wasps want the club gone. I believe that this City of Rugby strategy is ultimately an attempt to get both union and league at the ground. Wasps I'm afraid have huge delusions of grandure. They believe wasps will be some sort of global brand and I'm sure the only other club they will ever integrate will be the rugby league club.

There have definitely been plants on this forum. That says a lot about their intent and desire to always be the positive good guy in this saga.

Their hold on local media is incredible and I an not sure how this has been done. Even CWR is skewed hugely to them. Today has been a walking advert for them.

There is in my mind no doubt that if wasps remain in coventry this club as well as the rugby club will be marginalised - I actually think the football club will cease to exist.

Whatever peoples views I personally find this a very sad and upsetting prospect. The football club has been a huge part of my life (often to my families annoyance) and the thought that it's going to be removed is not something that I can comprehend.

The future looks grim - with wasps it has no hope.

So can we think of something's we can do to try and counter this threat?

I would urge people to at least look at their forum. There is an arrogance - laughing at football fans for their poor grammar, claiming conentry needs wasps more than the other way round and telling the club to find some money and build something itself for once (that individual clearly doesn't appreciate irony) but at the same time there is nervous uncertainty. A concern if the placid and actually compliant fan base started to turn.

It is this that gives us our only hope. There is a lack of assurance - they know they have years before they can be fully entrenched.

So - what can we do? I've some thoughts - but what about anyone else?

I would ask this thread does not descend into the normal divergent blame game nonsense. If people don't share the view fine - but those that do - what do we think?

Oh Dear Grendel, what an Hypocrite you are. I make a mistake and you try and Belittle me ( conentry ) I won't be lowering myself to your Level. Any one can make a mistake Grendel .

 

[The Gentleman]

That's mostly rubbish I'm afraid and I'm not really sure what your point is. The 3 most effective and visible protests to have taken place were the two marches and the Arsenal protest. How much anti-council sentiment was displayed then? None. Were you complaining about that then? I doubt it.

Recent talk of protests relate specifically to the actions of the council/Wasps on a number of specific issues - but of course any such protest would also focus on the actions of SISU, how couldn't they? And why do you think they wouldn't?

That's mostly rubbish I'm afraid and I'm not really sure what your point is. The 3 most effective and visible protests to have taken place were the two marches and the Arsenal protest. How much anti-council sentiment was displayed then? None. Were you complaining about that then? I doubt it.

Recent talk of protests relate specifically to the actions of the council/Wasps on a number of specific issues - but of course any such protest would also focus on the actions of SISU, how couldn't they? And why do you think they wouldn't?

Ok Ferret, What part of my post is rubbish? Have all the things I said not happened? have certain people on this forum not taken certain perspectives? should we not be targeting all sides equally?

You see, as much as the protests were good at uniting most of the fans (sadly not all), that's all it did. It didn't make the blindest bit of difference to Sisu who are only really bothered by money. So when talk of taking the protests further just like people are on this thread, it really pisses me off that when we really had the chance to make a direct difference to our club, we missed the fucking boat. Now that the ship has sailed, the same some posters are all over action against Wasps.

Oh and there was still plenty of anti CCC all through the protests or are you denying that? you see there has been anti CCC sentiment all through this just as much as other parties.

Lastly, do you not agree that all parties can be targeted equally?

I know that this is a thread about getting at Wasps but threads often veer off on occasion. But I'm sorry for saying that we should include Sisu in organisations that should be blamed equally. I guess I'll leave the 'some' to carry on.

 

[Gazolba]

There is no secret to packing the Ricoh, We simply need a winning team playing attractive football. If we are near the top of the table and winning our home games, the crowds will come. But let's not forget SISU's shenanigans have put some people off forever. Those people wont be coming back. We'll need to build a whole new generation of supporters. And there are a lot more things competing for people's time and money than there used to be.

 

[Grendel]

Oh Dear Grendel, what an Hypocrite you are. I make a mistake and you try and Belittle me ( conentry ) I won't be lowering myself to your Level. Any one can make a mistake Grendel .

Another awesome contribution to a debate - well done.

 

[dongonzalos]

They'd agree terms on their terms.

And frankly if those terms are so wide from where the clubs position is why bother dropping legal action?

No company would be railroaded like that. Especially when the action is against a third party.

Not a chance and to be honest as a libertarian I would support sisu all the way of that was the case. Which it isn't.

Dispute is with the council
Wasps are an interested party.
There is no legal impediment, stopping the out of court settlement to be that SISU drop the action if the find common ground and sign a 20 year agreement with Wasps including the academy.

 

[Grendel]

Dispute is with the council
Wasps are an interested party.
There is no legal impediment, stopping the out of court settlement to be that SISU drop the action if the find common ground and sign a 20 year agreement with Wasps including the academy.

Wasps have put an offer to the club and the club have rejected it. Chris Anderson was asked directly if legal disputes were an issue he said no.

Regardless any such settlement would require the council buy in and that ain't happening as they are the party in the dispute. They will agree nothing.

Equally what you are suggesting is frankly disgusting - that a company should stop due legal process.

It's also alarming as it suggests there is something someone has to hide. You actually seem to be panicking a bit.

This is interesting. What are they desperate to surpress?

Anyway regardless the council wouldn't agree for several reasons.

 

[dongonzalos]

Wasps have put an offer to the club and the club have rejected it. Chris Anderson was asked directly if legal disputes were an issue he said no.

(He didn't say no I have already shown you what he said.)


Regardless any such settlement would require the council buy in and that ain't happening as they are the party in the dispute. They will agree nothing.

(They just agree to SISU dropping the legal action. They don't need to do any elss, of course they would.)

Equally what you are suggesting is frankly disgusting - that a company should stop due legal process.

(Yes and I sure that really disgust you !!!! )

It's also alarming as it suggests there is something someone has to hide. You actually seem to be panicking a bit.

(Yes I am quaking in my boots. Or alternatively I just want the best for my football club. You want the best for a company.
If you mean the council or wasps are quaking in their boots. They probably just want the riddiculous legal action stopped. Like when they said negotiations of ACL couldn't happen unless JR 1 was stopped. We all know how that is panning out. )

This is interesting. What are they desperate to surpress?

(Just quite keen for a quick resolution and the footy club to have its future solved)

Anyway regardless the council wouldn't agree for several reasons.

(Doesn't this remind you of encouraging the club not to agree to the rent deal. Saying there will be no one else. Keep pushing and pushing get it for even lower or put ACL out of business. Whilst I was saying get it signed up stop jerking around get the deal done and get our future secured.
Fast forward a few years Wasos are here and you have learnt jack and are still encouraging SISU not to compromise and not to do deals in the best interests of CCFC.
You are weird your hate of the council if far more important to you than CCFC. That is clear for anyone to see)

 

[Grendel]

Anderson said legal actions are not a barrier - as you lied again I can't be bothered reading the rest of your tripe.

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-managing-director-chris-11420915

 

[covrugby]

Tbf that kind of opinion does exist in their fanbase,

TBF that sort of opinion does exist down, got told to fuck off back to the footy while chatting about all the shit and being overheard.
Basically, I'm here for the Rugby and don't want to hear about that shit.
There will be a fair bit of suspicion and distrust down there among their fanbase from conversations I've had.

Thanks Wingy ..... You would get a mixed response probably, I welcome anyone if they want to come and watch rugby and I would have welcomed all of you 18 months ago standing in solidarity when Wasps moved here. But why should you be made welcome now just because your academy has gone tits up and you think it will all be solved by suddenly becoming interested in the plight of CRFC ? ... Nick says he has spoken to 'someone' at CRFC .. That may well be so but I bet you haven't spoken to the supporters who are there week after week, who felt shat upon when Wasps arrived ! My gripe about people inciting criminal acts is made because by moderators ignoring it gives the impression that it's ok to make posts like that and the forum then gets associated with it .... I don't want people standing in solidarity with me who want to smash up the Ricoh. Delete the posts and make it unacceptable! ... And please don't say they weren't seen .... You were quick enough to jump on me for posting something you didn't like and sadly looking up my IP address etc what difference does it make where I post from ?

As for doing anything at a rugby game be it Cov or Wasps .... You'll have to wait 3 months anyway ..... All your troubles will have blown over by then. Don't you think Wasps have timed this in close season to avoid any problems ?

 

[sbadey]

Wasps have put an offer to the club and the club have rejected it. Chris Anderson was asked directly if legal disputes were an issue he said no.

Regardless any such settlement would require the council buy in and that ain't happening as they are the party in the dispute. They will agree nothing.

Equally what you are suggesting is frankly disgusting - that a company should stop due legal process.

It's also alarming as it suggests there is something someone has to hide. You actually seem to be panicking a bit.

This is interesting. What are they desperate to surpress?

Anyway regardless the council wouldn't agree for several reasons.

If the councils court fees were paid and the promise of no further legal action was promised the council would accept that scenario G

Sent from my Versus TouchPad 9 using Tapatalk

 

[Deleted member 5849]

But why should you be made welcome now just because your academy has gone tits up and you think it will all be solved by suddenly becoming interested in the plight of CRFC ?

In simple terms, because there's a chance of the clubs becoming partners, in an attempt to fight off the threat to their existence by the cuckoos in the city.

And what's done is done.

 

[covrugby]

Is suggesting that we come and make a united fan base a St Trinian's misdemeanour? We ( our club ) could be your Partners soon. Both clubs could be adversly affected by Wasps expansion. I would have thought we shared ( at least in part ) the Same agenda. Our club is/ was negotiating with Wasps. Now on hold. Watching one of your games and maybe going to a pub afterwards and swapping points of view wouldn't hurt anyone. Are you in favour of the BPA proposal?

St trinians was made in response to some of the other juvenile protest suggestions.

We do share the same agenda or similar, my point is that we have shared it for 18 months but you are only now interested in CRFC because you want to raise awareness of your academy going tits up .... Where was your interest and solidarity against Wasps 18 months ago ? (Other than a bit of lip service on here)

I don't have an issue at all with the BPA proposal mainly because I don't think it will happen.

I'd happily share and buy anyone a beer who comes down to watch rugby and put the world to rights but not anyone who's only interest is furthering your own ends to sort your academy.

Like I said earlier if you had been offered a blinding deal for your Academy and the Ricoh this week .... Nobody would give a shit about CRFC !

 

[covrugby]

In simple terms, because there's a chance of the clubs becoming partners, in an attempt to fight off the threat to their existence by the cuckoos in the city.

And what's done is done.

Where was your interest 18 months ago to fight off the threat of Wasps to CRFC ?

 

[covrugby]

Get a couple of hundred in and smash the fucking place up every week

Mods .... Why leave posts like this on here ? Why not challenge it ?

 

[martcov]

Where was your interest 18 months ago to fight off the threat of Wasps to CRFC ?

Out of interest, what was your form of protest 18 months ago? Or did you accept the version at the time that Wasps were going to work together and were not a threat? Have you benefited from Wasps' arrival?

 

[shelby76]

think this thread is being infultrated by wasp sympathisers, must be hitting a raw nerve keep going Grendel.

 

[Nick]

Mods .... Why leave posts like this on here ? Why not challenge it ?

Because if you read the context of it and still get offended you might want to back away from the internet.

Go away, you are being too obvious. This isn't the telegraph site.

You are a cov rugby fan who hates wasps being here who interrupts their holiday to whinge about an off the cuff remark about "smashing the place up" at a wasps game.

Ok then...

 

[Nick]

think this thread is being infultrated by wasp sympathisers, must be hitting a raw nerve keep going Grendel.

Quite obvious, must be doing something right

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Where was your interest 18 months ago to fight off the threat of Wasps to CRFC ?

You seem to have missed the what's done is done bit.

Anyway, had there been a decent protest organised then, I'd have been there if possible but... what's done is done. One could argue neither CCFC nor CRFC especially encouraged a form of protest, with their statements, but should we not protest because we didn't 18 months ago? Isn't that rather counter-productive?

For info, the last year has seen me working so unable to attend, but I have toddled down to CRFC occasionally over the years. My Dad... far more than me. Was a regular at Coundon Road through the 70s, travelled away too. One of the major CRFC players of the time used to get the tickets, as there was a connection.

Not, of course, that I have to justify. I just find it slightly odd that you would bang on about no protest 18 months ago, so let's let Wasps walk over the two major clubs too. There are many opportunities that have been lost over the years, but we can do nothing about the past, only the future.

 

[dongonzalos]

Wasps have said they have paused negotiations over the distraction of the legal action.
Chris Anderson has said he doesn't know enough about the legal situation to comment on that, but as far as he is aware Wasps are not been sued.
The last time the fans were polled around 90% said its time to drop the legal action.
After the absolute ahniliated moon in JR1 it is time to get negotiating.
All sides need pressure for various reasons
SISU to agree to legal action getting dropped if deal can made.
Wasps to finish the negotiations for both academy and main team.
Council give us suitable land if a deal is not possible.

Simple as that.

Any issues with the above you are putting your own personal agenda over the future of CCFC.

 

[covrugby]

Out of interest, what was your form of protest 18 months ago? Or did you accept the version at the time that Wasps were going to work together and were not a threat? Have you benefited from Wasps' arrival?

Personally my form of action at the time was to engage in dialogue with various people and seek answers to questions.

I don't see that CRFC have benefitted, a few more people turn up at games and there are promises from Wasps about the future with player loans etc but that all remains to be seen.

 

[covrugby]

Because if you read the context of it and still get offended you might want to back away from the internet.

Go away, you are being too obvious. This isn't the telegraph site.

You are a cov rugby fan who hates wasps being here who interrupts their holiday to whinge about an off the cuff remark about "smashing the place up" at a wasps game.

Ok then...

Funny how you can't just answer or comment on the points I raise, you just hit back with criticism of me. I spend a few weeks in Ireland across the year, I call it a holiday but I'm actually semi retired, so I end up doing things I do at home, why should that matter ? Is that any of your business, I haven't interrupted anything.

Im not offended by anything on the Internet and I'm fully aware of the context. My question to you as a mod still applies !

 

[Nick]

Funny how you can't just answer or comment on the points I raise, you just hit back with criticism of me. I spend a few weeks in Ireland across the year, I call it a holiday but I'm actually semi retired, so I end up doing things I do at home, why should that matter ? Is that any of your business, I haven't interrupted anything.

Im not offended by anything on the Internet and I'm fully aware of the context. My question to you as a mod still applies !

The question about an off the cuff comment that is clearly not actually arranging to smash anything up which you felt the need to sign up and complain about?

Yes, ok then.

As I said, go back to your holiday any action or anything involved crfc would obviously be cleared with them first.