Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
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Legal action (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter dongonzalos
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Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
Family allowance is the right of any Citizen(Term used loosely) living in the UK. Because of EU directives, that includes hundreds of thousands of economic migrants from the Eastern European region FACT!
Descended into a UKIP party broadcast - shame really.
Thousands of immigrants help support the UK economy - NHS is a good example, but also farm labouring. East Anglia and Lincolnshire produce 50% of th UKs food, and is highly reliant on immigrants to plant and harvest fruit, brassicas etc.. this reliance on mainly unskilled immigrants is dependant on free movement of labour. What do the farmers do if a key part of their operation are no longer allowed to work here?
The vote is not purely about keeping foreigners out. It's at best a lazy argument which lack any rational thought.
And by the way, the UK does make its own laws (statutes) - I will list the environmental ones that I work with and adhere to if you wish.
Thousands of immigrants help support the UK economy - NHS is a good example, but also farm labouring. East Anglia and Lincolnshire produce 50% of th UKs food, and is highly reliant on immigrants to plant and harvest fruit, brassicas etc.. this reliance on mainly unskilled immigrants is dependant on free movement of labour. What do the farmers do if a key part of their operation are no longer allowed to work here?
The vote is not purely about keeping foreigners out. It's at best a lazy argument which lack any rational thought.
And by the way, the UK does make its own laws (statutes) - I will list the environmental ones that I work with and adhere to if you wish.
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
Child benefit is paid at £20.30 a week for the first child and £13.40 for every other child, regardless of parental income.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-ending-handouts-years-off.html#ixzz4AyggRSbk
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Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
Your opinion is the only one that counts then Monners?
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
A lot of what Farage stands for is "Out of order" but then, a lot of what he says has a massive amount of creedence too.
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
At this point in the proceedings I'm now going to "Step away" Have a good debate. 
Of course not, but at least it's informed, and I am entitled to one. I notice you ingored the point I made on UK law and farm labour.
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
Do you mean in the same way Sick Boy has gone quiet? No mate I haven't ignored your post like SICK BOY ignored mine! I don't know enough about the "Farming and UK law on that subject" to be able to make a decent fist of it there you go..I've replied to your post. Do me a favour though Monners, tell your little mate that's hiding behind you(Sick Boy) why didn't he reply to my last post to him?
there you go..I've replied to your post. Do me a favour though Monners, tell your little mate that's hiding behind you(Sick Boy) why didn't he reply to my last post to him?dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Cameron should have negotiated that one in his reforms
I take it Brits are claiming the equivalent in Spain France Germany etc?
What an odd post. I put the info in about farming and UK law to inform the debate - I work in this area, so happen to know something about it.Do you mean in the same way Sick Boy has gone quiet? No mate I haven't ignored your post like SICK BOY ignored mine! I don't know enough about the "Farming and UK law on that subject" to be able to make a decent fist of it
I made reference to UKIP as I find it frustrating that for many, including the ,mass media, the vote is based on a single issue - immigration, which in my view is ill informed.
Your reference to Sick Boy hiding behind me? Sorry, this baffles me, I know him as well as I know you i.e. I don't know him at all. I am only debating the issues - no more no less
Or is it something more sinister perhaps, as by coincidence he and I are both second generation Irish - which I found out only via this thread (boo those immigrants). THIS IS A JOKE BY THE WAY
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
Nothing sinister mate haha. He liked your post whilst at the same time ignoring mine that's all.
As for you QUOTE[I put the info in about farming and UK law to inform the debate - I work in this area, so happen to know something about it.]UNQUOTE
I've already explained my position on it
You honestly don't think I'd deliberately walk into a "Shoeing" do you? haha.
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Astute
Well-Known Member
I do believe that if you go to a country even on holiday you should at least try to learn the language. So you keep mentioning Italy. When I went there when we did the pre season I did a crash course in Italian. The only time I spoke English was when talking to my own family.
But you are after Internet points again. Us going to another country and having language problems with medical staff is nothing like being in our own country and getting treated by someone who struggles with their English.
Astute
Well-Known Member
I moved from Lincolnshire to where I am now. Have you seen the problems caused? Try going to places like Boston. My stepfather had a heart attack. All they could do was stabilise him. It took over a week. Then they had to transport him to Nottingham. They had to close the heart unit as they were overwhelmed with incomers to the area. A nurse told me a big problem they have is people complaining of pains. They have to take them in under observation. So they get a bed and fed. The next morning they get up and leave. Why not take a look at how the population of Boston has exploded. And it has gone from a place where hardly anything happened to the police not being able to cope. And farming isn't 12 months of the year.
So how did Lincolnshire cope before our borders opened up like they are now?
Astute
Well-Known Member
Cameron hasn't negotiated anything to happen. All he has negotiated is the right to talk about what he wants to happen. He has just been wording things carefully so people without a clue think he is getting what he wants.
The worse thing is even if we get anything granted it can be taken away again without debate.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Do you mean in the same way Sick Boy has gone quiet? No mate I haven't ignored your post like SICK BOY ignored mine! I don't know enough about the "Farming and UK law on that subject" to be able to make a decent fist of it
I am at work.
You didn't even a ask a question.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Lincolnshire and East Anglia coped through immigrants, particularly post war. My point is, is that farmers are raising the issue that if leaving the EU means they cannot recruit due to people not being allowed or having to jump through hoops with visas etc.. which is what has been suggested (the Aussie system being the latest) then they will not be able to operate efficiently, productivity will drop., profits go down, and cost to the consumer (us) go up. Also the export market will be greatly impacted.
The farmers and the National Farmers Union are saying this is a major issue.
As for the NHS, I would be blind now without it, and both my consultants are foreign, as are the majority of the nurses. In future, if they have to jump through hoops to get visas in the same way, then they may go elsewhere to work. How would the health service cope? Will I be allowed to go blind?
The reason the NHS is in a mess, is down to Government policy (and not just this Govt.).
It is inaccurate, ill informed and simplistic to blame immigration as THE major factor for any of the UK's issues.
At least my kids can opt for Irish nationality when they reach working age, so will still have the option to work in the EU if the UK leaves
The farmers and the National Farmers Union are saying this is a major issue.
As for the NHS, I would be blind now without it, and both my consultants are foreign, as are the majority of the nurses. In future, if they have to jump through hoops to get visas in the same way, then they may go elsewhere to work. How would the health service cope? Will I be allowed to go blind?
The reason the NHS is in a mess, is down to Government policy (and not just this Govt.).
It is inaccurate, ill informed and simplistic to blame immigration as THE major factor for any of the UK's issues.
At least my kids can opt for Irish nationality when they reach working age, so will still have the option to work in the EU if the UK leaves
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
This government is trying to end the nurses bursery to make sure even less British people will go for the roles, when my wife trained to be a nurse she got virtually no money during the training as they said her dad earns too much even though she didn't live at home. She worked loads of hours for free and even had to pay for the parking at the hospital the bit of bursery she got didn't even cover the car parking costs for the month. Equally the previous lot were no better.
The NHS is in a mess. Which is a shame, as it is this country's greatest achievement in my view. I had a knee op recently which had to be done in the private sector but paid for by the NHS, as there were no consultants available. It was the same consultant who performed the op that could have done it on the NHS at a fraction of the cost. He makes more money in the private sector! Can't blame him really (he was white and English by the way)
Why is the NHS forced to pay the private sector in this way? - to keep waiting lists down. Tax payers money to a profit making company. Now that is a key issue, and nothing to do with immigration. The NHS is understaffed and is hemorrhaging staff.
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
They want it to fail so they continue on with their sneaky privatisation of it the problem they seem to come up against is the staff are trying harder and harder and working even more hours for free to battle against it and keep the patients safe, until the recent times I had never realised who little the junior doctors earn at the start of their careers.
Another problem they have is they are awash with people behind the scenes and not enough at the cutting edge excuse the pun, and people are earning way too much for average work.
Astute
Well-Known Member
And having more people in this country than we are set up for doesn't make the waiting lists bigger?
SkyBlueZack
Well-Known Member
Totally missing the point. Blaming immigration is just passing the book for our own failings as a country. Politicians are hardly going to come out and say yeah we fucked up. Much easier to blame someone or something else. Problem is when people buy it, they get away with it. Politics was about the greater good, creating a fair democratic society. Do you think that is still the case? Or are they just out to look after themselves and not the masses?
Astute
Well-Known Member
Not me missing the point.
Yes the NHS is underfunded. Housing is underfunded. But we are letting in the population of Newcastle each year. And all I hear on this site is that it has nothing to do with immigration. Of course it does.
Everyone coming in will need somewhere to live. They will need healthcare. How many more cars does it put on our roads? I suppose we could raise taxes to pay for what is needed. Would you still be happy?
SkyBlueZack
Well-Known Member
So you don't miss the point but have nothing to say about
Politics was about the greater good, creating a fair democratic society. Do you think that is still the case? Or are they just out to look after themselves and not the masses?
You just contine to bang the immigration drum. The EU as people have said is about more than just immigration. Coming back to the same point just shows a lack of understanding of it all. I didn't know about the water and air quality directives, which is surely a good thing? Yet no mention of that, just immigrants, immigrants and immigrants. Out of the migrants that come here, how many are asylum seekers or work? I would hazard a guess a lot more than don't. The population is increasing, but it would be anyway without immigration. People live longer and more children are born. In part because the Government not the EU have allowed people to just have children and the country pay for them. Blaiming immigration is passing the book, don't let them get away with it.
Politics was about the greater good, creating a fair democratic society. Do you think that is still the case? Or are they just out to look after themselves and not the masses?
You just contine to bang the immigration drum. The EU as people have said is about more than just immigration. Coming back to the same point just shows a lack of understanding of it all. I didn't know about the water and air quality directives, which is surely a good thing? Yet no mention of that, just immigrants, immigrants and immigrants. Out of the migrants that come here, how many are asylum seekers or work? I would hazard a guess a lot more than don't. The population is increasing, but it would be anyway without immigration. People live longer and more children are born. In part because the Government not the EU have allowed people to just have children and the country pay for them. Blaiming immigration is passing the book, don't let them get away with it.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
to go back to the OP
There is an assumption being made that the back ground noise of legals actually relates to the JR cases. What if the back ground noise is to do with other legal actions/letters ? We all know that the weapon of choice for SISU is a legal action or threat of. Would that tie in with Wasps saying the JR is nothing to do with them but there still being legal background noises
There is an assumption being made that the back ground noise of legals actually relates to the JR cases. What if the back ground noise is to do with other legal actions/letters ? We all know that the weapon of choice for SISU is a legal action or threat of. Would that tie in with Wasps saying the JR is nothing to do with them but there still being legal background noises
Yes - it isn't a single issue, and immigration is part of the debate - but only a part.
"Let's blame immigration" is simplistic. I made the point on staffing the NHS, farming industry - also on UK laws being set by the UK (in an earlier post today in reference to environmental laws).These get ignored, or misunderstood in the case of the EU Directive from yesterday - they are essentially economic arguments, but it seems easier to say that immigration is THE issue and we should leave because of it. It is way more complex than that. Don't always believe what the mass media and the politicians tell you.
Now what's the address for the Irish Embassy, so I can sort out the kids passports (and the wife as well I suppose).
Astute
Well-Known Member
What a load of bollocks.
I have said earlier that they are all out for themselves. I also said that I don't trust politicians. I also said that I prefer to vote in who I want to run our country and have the right to vote them out if I don't like what they are doing.
I keep going on about immigration ATM because of people like you keep saying it makes no difference. Anyone with a working braincell will know it makes a massive difference.
Look at some unfounded points made on here. Like there is not enough housing because of the right to buy. But these houses are lived in. It is a lack of affordable housing. And while we don't have enough housing for people already here there will always be a lack of affordable housing.
Astute
Well-Known Member
As I just said immigration is only one of the points. But it is a bigger point than some would like you to believe.
The biggest for me is not being in charge of our own rules and regulations. A lot of OAP's are struggling. One way we could help them would be if we dropped VAT on utilities when you reach a certain age. But we are not allowed to because the EU says we can't. Their rules on tax means the rich and big companies find it easy not to pay any here.
Are you happy being ruled by people we have never voted for?
No - I have never voted Tory!
But seriously, we do get a say, and surely if we stay, then there is an opportunity to debate and reform the EU - which is needed. There is a good chance to do so if we stay in as the UK is a major player. Leaving out of spite or through a sulk, saying "it's not fai"r, strikes me as bizarre.
I always thought the the UK Govt brought in VAT on fuel bills - could be wrong though, so happy to be corrected; and doesn't the UK set it's own level of taxation and National Insurance?
Anyway, I had better go an implement some Directives!
Astute
Well-Known Member
0
They don't set our VAT levels. But the EU sets minimum amounts. And that is how much is charged here for utilities. We can't charge less but can charge more. It is only 5% but it can be a lot of money to some.
There is a chance to debate changing things. But that is all it is. A mandate on having talks. Even the remain side want to tighten our borders.
They don't set our VAT levels. But the EU sets minimum amounts. And that is how much is charged here for utilities. We can't charge less but can charge more. It is only 5% but it can be a lot of money to some.
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
I know I didn't...... YOU did!
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
@ Sick Boy... When I had my Heart Attack, a little polynesian nurse whom I never heard one word of English come from her mouth, Would religiously "Stab me in the Stomach" every morning for 2 weeks at 6-00am with Warfarin. She still works at the "Royal Gwent Hospital" to this day. I saw her when my daughter was having her baby there. Only now her English is excellent.
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
Could it be the head of the "Vatican City" in your beloved Italy says so?