Nick
Administrator
Is it? Really?
People knew ages ago Advent were doing their PR, it was discussed. It was also discussed how dog shite it was.
breaking news? at 5pm today (21 Viewers)
- Thread starter covcity4life
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Is it? Really?
People knew ages ago Advent were doing their PR, it was discussed. It was also discussed how dog shite it was.
olderskyblue
Well-Known Member
Check more recently. Everything from CCC/Wasps et al is considered PR, yet CA says anything, it must be true
Nick
Administrator
Nobody says everything that is said is "true".
There is a difference between pre-written statements and quotes on the radio, some you can tell a mile away.
People pick up on Wasps because of the fact they denied there was ever a PR machine when meeting ccfc fans, meanwhile they had people signing up on here. Thats why the PR stuff about them comes into it, a lot of their PR is actually very good which is what I have also said many times.
olderskyblue
Well-Known Member
One man's PR Machine, is just another's standard PR practices. That argument has been done to death in the past, so best leave it there. I'm just looking for even-ness
Nick
Administrator
I can mainly only comment on here as I see it more. I can also see there are people who post on the telegraph articles who resemble people who used to post on here.
So you don't see the irony in simon trying to have digs about things that are posted that are bs? If it was a normal fan I could understand it completely.
No, he said it >was< 'Total BS' he wasn't offering his opinion on it.
He also confirmed it was signed off by the board them knowing it was BS.
Said they did this following bad PR advice.....despite him not being in the meeting where it was discussed!
olderskyblue
Well-Known Member
I was more interested in the BS... rather than who pointed it out. I thought that was more important. I don't read the comments on there, so don't have a clue (or care) who they are, so i'll have to take your word on that.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
So one is a PR machine and one is dog shite.
Maybe it's just to do with what they have to work with
Nick
Administrator
One went to a CCFC fans meeting and tried to make it out that there is no pr machine etc, meanwhile people from Wasps were signing up on here to do PR at CCFC fans...
The other have had dog shite PR for years.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
But Kieran admits that he thought it was bullshit
But still published it on the Ofgicial CCFC website as the club statement.
Yet people are telling us we should believe Kieran?
Nick
Administrator
People will believe who and what they want, I haven't told anybody to only believe ccfc and not anybody else.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Yes, I'm sure it was never subsequently discussed outside the meeting....
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dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
The other one asked a select group of fans on here to meet with them. To inadvertently convince them of their side of the story with the hope they will do there PR on here for them.
You seem to be very lucky that no one involved with the club or their PR companies are on here doing PR.
I must say I am surprised they are not.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Are you saying we shouldnt believe kieran? He didn't write it, he was asked to upload it. His name automatically goes on every article as hes the web editor (according to him on Twitter).
Wasps won't talk to us about the Ricoh, wasps and csf conspire behind our backs about the higgs, even simon said he didn't know until the day before. So Kieran says we've tried and tried and wasps won't talk to us. Seems to me the evidence is out there.
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dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
No you haven't but some people are suggesting Kieran is more believable
Nick
Administrator
Yes, the other one had about 20 - 30 meetings with different CCFC fans.
Like I said, they could well be but they are keeping under the radar doing it and not standing out. Who knows who every single person is.
CCFC fans do a great job as Wasps PR, very strange.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Fair comment bar your last comment
Which I would say CCFC fans do a great job as PR for SISU (not CCFC) very strange
SkyBlueZack
Well-Known Member
No need to panic though. The trust want everyone to get round the table and talk.
Nick
Administrator
Really? You see I can kind of understand why it might look like that as they own CCFC. Do people come on here and start promoting them for their other ventures and say "ay up, look at this takeover, top bit of work".
Of course it is strange that people would be doing Wasps PR for them, look at when they moved in. City fans preaching about it.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
What's the alternative?
Nick
Administrator
You suggested a good one, we instantly had people signing up to try and tell people not to
Obviously bothered people!No, I'm sure the fact they were BSing fans was discussed on numerous occasions
You're happy with that?
Brylowes
Well-Known Member
Think we've been at war with everyone for years now, it's not gone well has it,
Sadly We have just about reached the point where it would be unkind not to
Shoot us"
Nick
Administrator
The only thing that's happened is you have just made yourself obvious to something by posting that on multiple threads???
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
I think this constant referral to PR from either side (and it is all sides) that every thread seems to descend into detracts from the real issues. Yes all sides try to spin it their way but surely by now we have learnt to see through it? Damn well should have done by now
Summary of what I think is happening now
- I think that CCC, CSF, Wasps, COWAT, Charity and others have aligned themselves to put maximum pressure on SISU. They most probably have just got simply fed up of dealing with them. They want SISU (not the club) gone
- many of the above are linked in ways not immediately obvious to the average CCFC fan
- SISU have found just about every door closed to them and are left with legal actions (against opponents that are not that vulnerable and not that scared of a fight) and belatedly an appeal to the fans. Having led the fracturing of the support (ably assisted by others though) they now think everyone will fall behind them over the Academy
- CCFC is the football to be kicked around by all sides and is seriously at risk. It isn't just the Academy that is on the edge
- The Academy is the last call to arms. I very much favour having one but there are alternatives. Will be emailing the FA to see if I can get some questions answered and let you know the response
- CCC is as was always the case a dominant player in all this and is one of the rocks that CCFC is ground against. CCFC because of the dispute and lack of partnership has plummeted down its list of priorities - it shouldn't be the case but that's where egos and dispute has led
- CSF & COWAT. They run much more than the Higgs centre but have close relations with both CCC & Wasps. The relationship with CCFC at the Higgs Centre has not, despite CA's assurances, been historically that great. The club has been locked out for non payment of rent allegedly and was in dispute over costs before CCFC decided to leave breaking that link forged in 2003. CCFC saying they want to stay (apparently recently - I mean in last 6 months) moving it to contract something else (takes two though). Doesn't feel like there was a sense of partnership between CSF COWAT and CCFC. But finding another tenant does put big pressure on SISU. In theory that pressure should galvanise the fans behind SISU but it really doesn't seem to have. Also why didn't we all challenge the swimming pool - it apparently doesn't even fund itself so how can it be better value for CSF, CCC, the taxpayer than renting out a big empty space with significantly less costs!
- Wasps. Yes part of putting the pressure on SISU. They will go about their business as is their right and do not have to consider the needs of CCFC, frankly if the needs haven't been adequately addressed by the owners by now why should Wasps. I still think the offers of partnership should not be dismissed but you get the impression it doesn't include SISU. Can they be active in maintain the Academy 2 status - I think we need to ask some questions of FA, EPPP regulators, Wasps & CSF first to know that. Basically CCFC under SISU is an irritation to them and they are moving on regardless with their plans. That has to give CCFC fans a feel for the confidence Wasps have surely. I don't want them here but I do not see a way of making them leave, and they are here long term. The only place there is a door open to the club though in terms of partnership at any site in Coventry - but not it seems with SISU in control
- Charity. I think the key here is the clause in the Covenant regarding disposals to entities involved in legal action or threat against the Charity. That seems to me to rule out a lease to Otium trading as CCFC. The Higgs Charity want nothing to do with anything connected to SISU. Not really a surprise after all the bad blood between them but it is an obstacle to CCFC taking over the Higgs Centre instead of Wasps. Surely then CA must know that an offer to base CCFC from there is therefore pretty hollow - if he doesn't he ought to. But SISU being involved means no goodwill from AEHC towards CCFC
- Others. Not such obvious characters perhaps. But how long does it take to obtain a head lease and what is holding it up?. Without the head lease then BPA as an alternative is a total non starter and another door closed to CCFC under SISU. Without access to funds and the head lease then CRFC have no way of progressing their under used site for the good of CRFC let alone a CRFC & CCFC partnership.
- SISU. I would think feel under a concerted attack from the parties above. They have not it seems found a way to encourage or build any positive relationships let alone partnerships in this whole saga (is CRFC a partnership or is it with CCFC). Their chosen method of "negotiation" is tell people what they want and to take legal action if they do not get it. Hardly a way to open doors or to keep them open. All of the above basically want SISU gone. Are SISU under other financial pressures? The last accounts were not great are their investors getting less than impressed with their investment returns?
- CCFC is the tool used by all involved to get what they want. I think from where I sit all the above want CCFC to survive. However for CCC, CSF etc that's survival without SISU. Because of the financial structure adopted then the shares and debt stop any interest from third parties - the saga and decisions taken have stripped out just about anything of worth (not the same as asset stripping) the club has little worth. The club is very seriously at risk. The Academy is seriously at risk but there may still be ways to maintain it. CCFC is led by an obviously intelligent guy who has the best intentions but crucially does not have the final say. There is a feeling of they cant do this to us we are CCFC - oh but they can and are. The only weapon that CCFC have to compete with are a fractured fan base and 133 years of history. As I said above CCFC is the football to be kicked around by all sides
Fans - well we do not seem to agree on much. Even then very real threat to, in my opinion, the vital Academy is met with arguments and indeed apathy. This of course is happening at the quietest time in the football calendar or indeed the rugby one - coincidence? It takes the wind out of protest ideas to some extent. The CCFC owners have never really developed a relationship with the fans - the club tries but apathy has set in for many and unbelievably some so called fans would rather see the club fail. But then who listens to the fans - NONE OF THE ABOVE
Doors have systematically been closed, at quite probably the worst time for SISU and CCFC. I do not see that as a coincidence but it is all perfectly legal. Any business has as its first duty the requirement to look after its own affairs first, including SISU (read that last sentence again)
There are ways out of this mess but ......................................
Summary of what I think is happening now
- I think that CCC, CSF, Wasps, COWAT, Charity and others have aligned themselves to put maximum pressure on SISU. They most probably have just got simply fed up of dealing with them. They want SISU (not the club) gone
- many of the above are linked in ways not immediately obvious to the average CCFC fan
- SISU have found just about every door closed to them and are left with legal actions (against opponents that are not that vulnerable and not that scared of a fight) and belatedly an appeal to the fans. Having led the fracturing of the support (ably assisted by others though) they now think everyone will fall behind them over the Academy
- CCFC is the football to be kicked around by all sides and is seriously at risk. It isn't just the Academy that is on the edge
- The Academy is the last call to arms. I very much favour having one but there are alternatives. Will be emailing the FA to see if I can get some questions answered and let you know the response
- CCC is as was always the case a dominant player in all this and is one of the rocks that CCFC is ground against. CCFC because of the dispute and lack of partnership has plummeted down its list of priorities - it shouldn't be the case but that's where egos and dispute has led
- CSF & COWAT. They run much more than the Higgs centre but have close relations with both CCC & Wasps. The relationship with CCFC at the Higgs Centre has not, despite CA's assurances, been historically that great. The club has been locked out for non payment of rent allegedly and was in dispute over costs before CCFC decided to leave breaking that link forged in 2003. CCFC saying they want to stay (apparently recently - I mean in last 6 months) moving it to contract something else (takes two though). Doesn't feel like there was a sense of partnership between CSF COWAT and CCFC. But finding another tenant does put big pressure on SISU. In theory that pressure should galvanise the fans behind SISU but it really doesn't seem to have. Also why didn't we all challenge the swimming pool - it apparently doesn't even fund itself so how can it be better value for CSF, CCC, the taxpayer than renting out a big empty space with significantly less costs!
- Wasps. Yes part of putting the pressure on SISU. They will go about their business as is their right and do not have to consider the needs of CCFC, frankly if the needs haven't been adequately addressed by the owners by now why should Wasps. I still think the offers of partnership should not be dismissed but you get the impression it doesn't include SISU. Can they be active in maintain the Academy 2 status - I think we need to ask some questions of FA, EPPP regulators, Wasps & CSF first to know that. Basically CCFC under SISU is an irritation to them and they are moving on regardless with their plans. That has to give CCFC fans a feel for the confidence Wasps have surely. I don't want them here but I do not see a way of making them leave, and they are here long term. The only place there is a door open to the club though in terms of partnership at any site in Coventry - but not it seems with SISU in control
- Charity. I think the key here is the clause in the Covenant regarding disposals to entities involved in legal action or threat against the Charity. That seems to me to rule out a lease to Otium trading as CCFC. The Higgs Charity want nothing to do with anything connected to SISU. Not really a surprise after all the bad blood between them but it is an obstacle to CCFC taking over the Higgs Centre instead of Wasps. Surely then CA must know that an offer to base CCFC from there is therefore pretty hollow - if he doesn't he ought to. But SISU being involved means no goodwill from AEHC towards CCFC
- Others. Not such obvious characters perhaps. But how long does it take to obtain a head lease and what is holding it up?. Without the head lease then BPA as an alternative is a total non starter and another door closed to CCFC under SISU. Without access to funds and the head lease then CRFC have no way of progressing their under used site for the good of CRFC let alone a CRFC & CCFC partnership.
- SISU. I would think feel under a concerted attack from the parties above. They have not it seems found a way to encourage or build any positive relationships let alone partnerships in this whole saga (is CRFC a partnership or is it with CCFC). Their chosen method of "negotiation" is tell people what they want and to take legal action if they do not get it. Hardly a way to open doors or to keep them open. All of the above basically want SISU gone. Are SISU under other financial pressures? The last accounts were not great are their investors getting less than impressed with their investment returns?
- CCFC is the tool used by all involved to get what they want. I think from where I sit all the above want CCFC to survive. However for CCC, CSF etc that's survival without SISU. Because of the financial structure adopted then the shares and debt stop any interest from third parties - the saga and decisions taken have stripped out just about anything of worth (not the same as asset stripping) the club has little worth. The club is very seriously at risk. The Academy is seriously at risk but there may still be ways to maintain it. CCFC is led by an obviously intelligent guy who has the best intentions but crucially does not have the final say. There is a feeling of they cant do this to us we are CCFC - oh but they can and are. The only weapon that CCFC have to compete with are a fractured fan base and 133 years of history. As I said above CCFC is the football to be kicked around by all sides
Fans - well we do not seem to agree on much. Even then very real threat to, in my opinion, the vital Academy is met with arguments and indeed apathy. This of course is happening at the quietest time in the football calendar or indeed the rugby one - coincidence? It takes the wind out of protest ideas to some extent. The CCFC owners have never really developed a relationship with the fans - the club tries but apathy has set in for many and unbelievably some so called fans would rather see the club fail. But then who listens to the fans - NONE OF THE ABOVE
Doors have systematically been closed, at quite probably the worst time for SISU and CCFC. I do not see that as a coincidence but it is all perfectly legal. Any business has as its first duty the requirement to look after its own affairs first, including SISU (read that last sentence again)
There are ways out of this mess but ......................................
Last edited:
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
You suggested a good one, we instantly had people signing up to try and tell people not to
Which idea specifically are you talking about? I have that many I can't narrow it down
I actually meant what alternative do the trust have other than trying to get all parties to talk? That's what needs to happen at the end of the day. Something neither side wants to do. If I was being cynical I'd say it suits both parties not to talk as neither have CCFC's best interests at heart. That's expected by at least one of those parties. Probably expected of the other as well really when you think about it. Leopards don't change their spots and all that.
shelby76
Well-Known Member
Ok mate.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Yes I find that strange I agree and I also find defending SISU strange and encouraging people to back their decisions as ultimately they are what is best for the club as strange.
Encouraging them not to agree to rent deals but keep pushing further and further.
Encouraging them not to drop legal action.
Some people not only agree with their tactics but seem to revel in it and encourage it.
Such tactics will never end in a better future for CCFC so I find it strange.
I am not saying you are one of them.
Then when some criticise such actions, others point out that Wasps, Council or the Charity are worse.
SkyBlueZack
Well-Known Member
Encouraging them not to drop legal action? Wrong. Stop spinning. People have said it shouldn't stop negotiations.
Nick
Administrator
Is that about your poll again that doesn't make sense? People voted for negotiations not to be interupted by Wasps because it's nowt to do with them.
It's like making posts saying how proud somebody is of the council, look how that is turning out.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Nah not the poll well well before that you had people who claim to be Coventry fans on here encouraging SISU not to sign that rent deal that was shook in and instead hold out and try and drive ACL into the ground. Because remember Decisions SISU make that are good for them are coincidently good for us.
That turned out fantastic for us.
People saying when the council told us put in our best offer for ACL before January or they are going a different route.
People said ignore them hold out they are bluffing (fantastic)
So no I don't understand people encouraging SISU with their tactics.
Yes sorry to say as it will really wind you up. I am still proud that the council took a stand to the bullying.
It would have been easier to cave.
I don't Lord the council for everything they do I am nothing to do with them. I am currently angry with them at the moment over "Greater Birmingham"
However their action took balls and I think they were right to do it.
AFCCOVENTRY
Well-Known Member
this breaking news sounds more exciting
This time next week, I'll be making an exciting announcement on my Facebook page. Join me at 8pm on Weds, June 15 facebook.com/TheSimonGilbert
This time next week, I'll be making an exciting announcement on my Facebook page. Join me at 8pm on Weds, June 15 facebook.com/TheSimonGilbert
