If SISU are going to stay... (27 Viewers)

[italiahorse]

I actually wish they would drop JR1 and go straight for JR2..

I think a lot of us would like to see the truth behind that deal.

That's fine, but if we want a long term deal at the Ricoh talks will have to wait until the court case is complete.

 

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[Senior Vick from Alicante]

The litigation snow ball will continue to grow, if your a barrister you will carry on instructing your client to fight it, you keep getting paid. I think the flip side to all this is if our owners don't win the JR or JR2 if that happens their will be a huge legal cost financially. The problem for them is how do you settle the legal bill, if its the third parties as suggested then it would probably bankrupt Sisu as a company unless they can transfer the costs back onto the club or make the club responsible. I think their out of their depth in all aspects of sport as a business, take the appointment of Chris Anderson. Its all well and good teaching principles in analytics and writing best selling books about football statistics but does this mean your qualified to run a club on a day to day basis. Most of these type of people are brilliant in their chosen academic field but as soon as they encounter the realities of normal everyday business life this is their downfall as they don't understand emotion and drive and the things that make a company successful as their not always quantifiable or measureable, Leicester proved this this year. Sisu have been a shambles in their ownership since he very start, I have always thought that players in the past that were bought to get promotion were sold, not because they wanted too, its because they had to be to pay for the next instalments owed to the original selling club and they did not have the funds to cover it. Sisu are the footballing equivalent to Dominic Chappell buying BHS for a £1 and not having the money to pay for it.

It will not matter one jot what Sisu do as they have neglected the one business principle any one should adopt which is be nice on the way up because you can always come down. This industry is about emotion, pride, loyalty and passion and as I have previously stated they are things that cant be measured. Our owners have shown none of these traits during their tenure and are reaping what they have sown, it doesn't matter who applies the coup de grace we just need it doing quickly. Uniting behind a new owner will be the only way this club will rise again, uniting behind a company that is as poor as our owners in this field will take us all to oblivion.

 

[Ian1779]

That's fine, but if we want a long term deal at the Ricoh talks will have to wait until the court case is complete.

That may well be the case - buts let be clear this is an active choice on Wasps' part. There are no reasons why these talks can't continue if there is the will - which appears non-existent from Wasps.

And to save you pulling the line about working relationships and trust etc...

Remember that since we returned from Northampton, the club have had deals in place with ACL and Higgs which they have honoured. We have not been told that they have reneged on any part of these.

 

[italiahorse]

That may well be the case - buts let be clear this is an active choice on Wasps' part. There are no reasons why these talks can't continue if there is the will - which appears non-existent from Wasps.

I think Wasps want to distance themselves from Sisu/CCFC while the legals are on.
Maybe to do with bad publicity at this moment in time and sponsorship implications. Even keeping the bond value up by not introducing risk.
After all CCFC have nothing to offer Wasps (at the moment) and Wasps are not reliant on them.
IMHO Wasps will actually gain (eventually) with CCFC demise without actually doing anything at all.
Sisu have messed up big time and the bluff has been called, unfortunately for CCFC and us fans.

 

[Ian1779]

I think Wasps want to distance themselves from Sisu/CCFC while the legals are on.
Maybe to do with bad publicity at this moment in time and sponsorship implications. Even keeping the bond value up by not introducing risk.
After all CCFC have nothing to offer Wasps (at the moment) and Wasps are not reliant on them.
IMHO Wasps will actually gain (eventually) with CCFC demise without actually doing anything at all.
Sisu have messed up big time and the bluff has been called, unfortunately for CCFC and us fans.

If that's the case then bring on JR2.

The more bad publicity Wasps get the better...

 

[italiahorse]

If that's the case then bring on JR2.
The more bad publicity Wasps get the better...

This is exactly the point, you can't have it both ways.
Unfortunately Wasps don't have to do or say anything but CCFC will stay in the unknown while Sisu get it out their system.

 

[Ian1779]

This is exactly the point, you can't have it both ways.
Unfortunately Wasps don't have to do or say anything but CCFC will stay in the unknown while Sisu get it out their system.

I'm not looking at having it both ways. Wasps have made it perfectly clear what the way is going to be. They want the CLUB gone from Ricoh, Higgs and Coventry as a whole.

We need to make merry hell for them on the way.

 

[italiahorse]

I'm not looking at having it both ways. Wasps have made it perfectly clear what the way is going to be. They want the CLUB gone from Ricoh, Higgs and Coventry as a whole.

We need to make merry hell for them on the way.

It's certainly not clear.
Surely offering their facilities at the Higgs is an olive branch.
We will always be able to rent at the Ricoh.
Surely you can see that legal action will compromise any deal for us ?

 

[Ian1779]

It's certainly not clear.
Surely offering their facilities at the Higgs is an olive branch.
We will always be able to rent at the Ricoh.
Surely you can see that legal action will compromise any deal for us ?

The Ricoh deal is dead... As is the Higgs deal.

They just want you to believe it's our fault even though it's their choice.

All I can see is you swallowing anything they tell you.

 

[Senior Vick from Alicante]

I'm not looking at having it both ways. Wasps have made it perfectly clear what the way is going to be. They want the CLUB gone from Ricoh, Higgs and Coventry as a whole.

We need to make merry hell for them on the way.

Disagree Ian, if the club are successful and at the Ricoh Wasps stand to make more. You would want a rental agreement that reflects in success as so many on here have said, if you owned a business that IF ONE OF YOUR TENANTS WAS IN THE PREMIER LEAGUE and contributed a rental of 1/4 of a mill a year which is not unreasonable due to the income the club would gain from the PL why would you not want us their? Wasps are being used as a stick to beat up Sisu at the moment and that's the difference. All the slighted parties are after the owners not the football club, Wasps are having to play the game to get planning permission on the adjacent land at the Higgs. I love my club and hate to see the state were in but its not an unexpected outcome from the way our owners have conducted their business. The worms have turned mate.

 

[chiefdave]

All I can see is you swallowing anything they tell you.

Wasps could drop a bomb on Ryton and italia would be on here telling us they were just trying to help.

 

[italiahorse]

The Ricoh deal is dead... As is the Higgs deal.

They just want you to believe it's our fault even though it's their choice.

All I can see is you swallowing anything they tell you.

So the Higgs deal is dead because CA wants it in writing and won't talk ?
Not only are you swallowing Sisu nonsense but you are actively spooning it in..

 

[Nick]

It's certainly not clear.
Surely offering their facilities at the Higgs is an olive branch.
We will always be able to rent at the Ricoh.
Surely you can see that legal action will compromise any deal for us ?

By Olive Branch do you mean something just to make people like you defend them as much as they can and make them out to be good? The same as the whole "yes, ccfc can come and bid on the wasps 50%" and "yes, wasps moving here is on the condition it wont damage ccfc".

 

[Nick]

Not only are you swallowing Sisu nonsense but you are actively spooning it in..

Jesus Christ, have you really just said that?

Haven't you learnt from when you were coming on here demanding everybody supported SISU?

 

[italiahorse]

Wasps could drop a bomb on Ryton and italia would be on here telling us they were just trying to help.

As long as Sisu management were there and the players were offsite, yes.
So CA still hasn't got off his arse and knocked on the Wasps door yet ?
Do you guys still go along with CA arrogance that it needs to be in writing ? A deal that hasn't yet been agreed yet but needs to be in writing!!

 

[italiahorse]

Jesus Christ, have you really just said that?

Haven't you learnt from when you were coming on here demanding everybody supported SISU?

You mean when they were making a fist of it 4 years ago.
Things move on and you no longer need to stick with someone when they go off the rails.

 

[Nick]

You mean when they were making a fist of it 4 years ago.
Things move on and you no longer need to stick with someone when they go off the rails.

You mean when you were coming on here acting the same as you do now about Wasps, just substitute them for SISU?

Coming on here going on about people being spoon fed spin, with 95% of your posts now has taken the irony meter off the scale. Don't you think it says something when you have the most hardcore people who hate sisu telling you to stop being a plonker now too?

 

[Ian1779]

Disagree Ian, if the club are successful and at the Ricoh Wasps stand to make more. You would want a rental agreement that reflects in success as so many on here have said, if you owned a business that IF ONE OF YOUR TENANTS WAS IN THE PREMIER LEAGUE and contributed a rental of 1/4 of a mill a year which is not unreasonable due to the income the club would gain from the PL why would you not want us their? Wasps are being used as a stick to beat up Sisu at the moment and that's the difference. All the slighted parties are after the owners not the football club, Wasps are having to play the game to get planning permission on the adjacent land at the Higgs. I love my club and hate to see the state were in but its not an unexpected outcome from the way our owners have conducted their business. The worms have turned mate.

Although I do see your point - I think it would actually be the opposite in reality. If we were a PL team, the money paid in rent and other costs will be insignificant in relation to the vast income from TV rights et al. Moreover, the publicity for CCFC would be such that no-one would care/remember that Wasps are at Ricoh or indeed own it. We would be the financially superior organisation. Are Wasps prepared to take the risk in them becoming the obscure partner despite them 'holding the cards'?

It's not in their interests for us to have any kind of footballing success.

 

[Nick]

Disagree Ian, if the club are successful and at the Ricoh Wasps stand to make more. You would want a rental agreement that reflects in success as so many on here have said, if you owned a business that IF ONE OF YOUR TENANTS WAS IN THE PREMIER LEAGUE and contributed a rental of 1/4 of a mill a year which is not unreasonable due to the income the club would gain from the PL why would you not want us their? Wasps are being used as a stick to beat up Sisu at the moment and that's the difference. All the slighted parties are after the owners not the football club, Wasps are having to play the game to get planning permission on the adjacent land at the Higgs. I love my club and hate to see the state were in but its not an unexpected outcome from the way our owners have conducted their business. The worms have turned mate.

Yet people are moaning about our owners conducting business, but you have just pretty much said that wasps are playing the game and sticking the boot in to us because they want planning permission. What I don't get is how something like that just gets overlooked but then people just refer back to articles Tim fisher said as justification.

 

[Senior Vick from Alicante]

Although I do see your point - I think it would actually be the opposite in reality. If we were a PL team, the money paid in rent and other costs will be insignificant in relation to the vast income from TV rights et al. Moreover, the publicity for CCFC would be such that no-one would care/remember that Wasps are at Ricoh or indeed own it. We would be the financially superior organisation. Are Wasps prepared to take the risk in them becoming the obscure partner despite them 'holding the cards'?

It's not in their interests for us to have any kind of footballing success.

I think its hand in hand with a sustainable model that doesn't put any financial pressure on you if you only have an average Rugby attendance of circa 12K. The money that would be taken can contribute to the Rugby club. Egg chasers and Footy fans are different people I don't think their would be any issue with us being successful as long as they are, in their own sport.

 

[Nick]

I think its hand in hand with a sustainable model that doesn't put any financial pressure on you if you only have an average Rugby attendance of circa 12K. The money that would be taken can contribute to the Rugby club. Egg chasers and Footy fans are different people I don't think their would be any issue with us being successful as long as they are, in their own sport.

Of course there would be, are Wasps going to want us in the premier league for example? If we were, it would all be about CCFC.

The people who strayed from CCFC to watch them would all switch back to watch the Chelseas, Man Utds, Spurs every week. We would be on sky sports a hell of a lot, we would get a lot more exposure than they would. We would have a lot more power than we do now, they would hate it.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

They might be named but what chance is there, in the unlikely event SISU win, of Wasps being impacted? The deal can't be unwound now. Any compensation or other penalty will be for CCC to deal with.


Why not? Its not particularly unusual for 2 parties working together while having ongoing legal action. Apple and Samsung have over 50 lawsuits in progress, with damages in the billions, yet still work together. Samsung is a parts supplier for Apple.

Now I know why my I-Phone keeps f**king up!!!

 

[SkyBlueZack]

What have SISU done that bad to warrant an all out assault on the football club, the history and tradition, the fans, the city? No one likes SISU. Everyone knows they fucked up, even they probably know that, from buying us to not sorting out the rent sooner. Does this really justify CCC and Wasps actions though?

 

[sky blue john]

...for me they are going to have to do one of two things for a start. Either come clean and confirm that it is third party litigation and that they are on a ship they are not the captain of and therefore can't stop it OR drop the litigation.

Here's why.

If they come clean about the third party litigation we as fan can unite, that word again unite, against wasps and say to them "look, our owners have set us on a path that they have no controll over and it's not fair on the club, it's fans and the wider Coventry community that you won't negotiate with CCFC until the litigation stops as that is simply not an option".

If it isn't third party litigation and they drop it aside from the fact that the vast majority of fans want them to drop it anyway it will call Wasps bluff. They'll have to re-enter negotiations with CCFC.

Either of these two actions will start the club moving forward. If they don't then to coin a phrase we still aren't at the bottom of the cycle yet.

Lets say Sisu hold their hands up and say its third party litigation. Who would negotiate with Wasps / Higgs on behalf of the club ?

 

[Nick]

What have SISU done that bad to warrant an all out assault on the football club, the history and tradition, the fans, the city? No one likes SISU. Everyone knows they fucked up, even they probably know that, from buying us to not sorting out the rent sooner. Does this really justify CCC and Wasps actions though?

Pretty much all of the actions are being justified by a Tim fisher state (or 2) saying we wish to move our academy and ground together and build. It is as if it has given them a free pass to all have a go.

 

[Nick]

Lets say Sisu hold their hands up and say its third party litigation. Who would negotiate with Wasps / Higgs on behalf of the club ?

A CCFC employee, rather than a SISU one surely?

 

[sky blue john]

A CCFC employee, rather than a SISU one surely?

So who is that likely to be and would they have full authority to make a deal ?

 

[SkyBlueZack]

Thing is since Northampton SISU seem to have got better in running a football club, the football side anyway. By judgement or luck? I'd say both. Life dictates that you need a bit of luck on the way. Despite insisting on match day revunues and non match day revenues. Ticket prices have not gone up, been up there with the cheapest in the league. So they haven't fleeced the fans in that respect. They have stuck with the academy which has provided vital in assiting with the clubs running costs. It's not ideal we have to sell players, it's not ideal we have no match day revenues. What would we rather have though? Cheaper tickets or a player sold? Now bear in mind people have complained about the BPA move if it were to happen and the possibility of prices increasing. Although it's been suggested, SISU have said nothing of the sort. Again ticket prices have been reasonable so the evidence points the other way. They are attempting to run the club at break even, which can surely be a good thing? After all chasing the dream is why we ended up with SISU? They appointed TM and MV and allowed them total control of the football side, is this not a good thing? Even if it was only because TM demanded it. Does it not show that they are able to compromise? They have appointed CA, who so far seems to only want the best for the club. He seems to have more of an idea than other idiots they have appointed.

 

[Senior Vick from Alicante]

Yet people are moaning about our owners conducting business, but you have just pretty much said that wasps are playing the game and sticking the boot in to us because they want planning permission. What I don't get is how something like that just gets overlooked but then people just refer back to articles Tim fisher said as justification.

I think their playing the game Nick. All sorts of under hand stuff goes on in the corridors of any political organisation such as councils as every one has their own agenda. I don't agree with it as much as the next man but its an unspoken reality. The thing for me is the likes of Fisher and his pals haven't been as savvy as the rest when it has really come to the crunch, its all been threatened by Fisher consistently about plan B, what he should have done is bought the land and then said fuck you here's plan B your welcome to what's left. The others having constantly been threatened with plan B called his bluff first. As with all things its like a game of poker, you cant keep bluffing the same hand if you haven't got the money on the table to keep up the bluff, I think that the other protaganists have found out the pot is empty and turned the tables and Sisu cant raise. If Sisu played the game from the start Wasps wouldn't even be here.

 

[Otis]

The only thing for sure Nick is we can't unite behind BS. As we're seeing first hand on this very forum.

Like you say it's cards on the table time. I would add it's cards on the table time or do one. Personally unless SISU start playing with a straight bat I'd be quite happy to start chanting SISU out at games. Something I personally haven't done since we returned from Sixfields. I suspect I won't be alone either.

Big problem I see in all this is, that in organising any protest against Higgs and/or Wasps and/or CCC, that, that will be seen by many City fans as backing Sisu and that is something they are not prepared to do.

Not saying that is the right and proper stance, or that it helps any, just that, that is the way it is going to be.

Fight against Sisu's adversaries and it will appear to a lot of people as if that is supporting Sisu and the bottom line is everyone wants Sisu out.

Don't ask me for an easy answer because there isn't one.

 

[Senior Vick from Alicante]

Thing is since Northampton SISU seem to have got better in running a football club, the football side anyway. By judgement or luck? I'd say both. Life dictates that you need a bit of luck on the way. Despite insisting on match day revunues and non match day revenues. Ticket prices have not gone up, been up there with the cheapest in the league. So they haven't fleeced the fans in that respect. They have stuck with the academy which has provided vital in assiting with the clubs running costs. It's not ideal we have to sell players, it's not ideal we have no match day revenues. What would we rather have though? Cheaper tickets or a player sold? Now bear in mind people have complained about the BPA move if it were to happen and the possibility of prices increasing. Although it's been suggested, SISU have said nothing of the sort. Again ticket prices have been reasonable so the evidence points the other way. They are attempting to run the club at break even, which can surely be a good thing? After all chasing the dream is why we ended up with SISU? They appointed TM and MV and allowed them total control of the football side, is this not a good thing? Even if it was only because TM demanded it. Does it not show that they are able to compromise? They have appointed CA, who so far seems to only want the best for the club. He seems to have more of an idea than other idiots they have appointed.

Do you think the management team were appointed by Sisu or was it the fact that Waggot was the footy man and having been turned down once before went back again to secure his services? Not disagreeing with running the club on a sound financial basis, it needed to happen but the jury is still out on Chris (I haven't had it in writing yet) Anderson.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

As long as Sisu management were there and the players were offsite, yes.
So CA still hasn't got off his arse and knocked on the Wasps door yet ?
Do you guys still go along with CA arrogance that it needs to be in writing ? A deal that hasn't yet been agreed yet but needs to be in writing!!

Italia's hatred runs that strong he wants people to die. Bit extreme. Don't like CCC, don't like Wasps, never considered bombing them would be appropriate though. Nice to see them shown up for what they are, yes. Death? No. Plain for all to see now that your opinion is anything but subjective.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

I think their playing the game Nick. All sorts of under hand stuff goes on in the corridors of any political organisation such as councils as every one has their own agenda. I don't agree with it as much as the next man but its an unspoken reality. The thing for me is the likes of Fisher and his pals haven't been as savvy as the rest when it has really come to the crunch, its all been threatened by Fisher consistently about plan B, what he should have done is bought the land and then said fuck you here's plan B your welcome to what's left. The others having constantly been threatened with plan B called his bluff first. As with all things its like a game of poker, you cant keep bluffing the same hand if you haven't got the money on the table to keep up the bluff, I think that the other protaganists have found out the pot is empty and turned the tables and Sisu cant raise. If Sisu played the game from the start Wasps wouldn't even be here.

Do you know this as a fact? Or just your opinion? See, evidence states CCFC would never own the stadium. Before SISU, during SISU and long after SISU. Please see this for what it is. Ok if you think Wasps are just good businessmen but realise what you're praising them for you're critical of SISU for. Be consistent please.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

Big problem I see in all this is, that in organising any protest against Higgs and/or Wasps and/or CCC, that, that will be seen by many City fans as backing Sisu and that is something they are not prepared to do.

Not saying that is the right and proper stance, or that it helps any, just that, that is the way it is going to be.

Fight against Sisu's adversaries and it will appear to a lot of people as if that is supporting Sisu and the bottom line is everyone wants Sisu out.

Don't ask me for an easy answer because there isn't one.

SISU go? Then what? Surely whilst SISU are here and need to claw back their losses we know we'll have a football team albeit with no stadium and no academy. SISU go and we have no idea of what will happen. Better the devil you know.

Alan Higgs was a lifelong supporter of Coventry City Football Club. Do you think he would of wanted this? Do you think he would of found another way?

Jimmy Hill. Do you think he would of stood for this?

People might think or like to think it's SISU that will pay, but it won't be. It will be the club, fans and future generations of football talent. That is far bigger than SISU now and in the future. Let's get over SISU being shit and challenege this. If we're going to go down, least let's do it fighting?

 

[stupot07]

So who is that likely to be and would they have full authority to make a deal ?

Chris Anderson, and any deals would need to be approved by the ccfc board. He confirmed this is in one the q&a articles in the CT last week.

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