SIR ERNIE
Well-Known Member
I think there's a lot of truth in that Astute.
Few people voted because of what Farage said.
But what Farage said and did ultimately enabled people to vote.
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (23 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
- Start date
I think there's a lot of truth in that Astute.
Few people voted because of what Farage said.
But what Farage said and did ultimately enabled people to vote.
eastwoodsdustman
Well-Known Member
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36660133
More bad news for the remain campaign. They said it'd never happed.
More bad news for the remain campaign. They said it'd never happed.
Out of interest, the EU is meeting in Bratislava in September. If....they commit themselves to more transparency, more democracy, controls to stop benefit tourism and so on, then make an offer of basically what Cameron and other critical nations wanted, and then present it to parliament. Would the government then be able to say the referendum was based on past facts and that it was only advisory, now we have a far better deal and we wil let parliament decide? ( Don't see it happening though, but just a thought ).
Astute
Well-Known Member
That was the night before when we found out. Most people didn't know before voting. You keep saying about the 350m. That was constantly called out as a lie since it was first mentioned. But the remain side wouldn't admit to how much the real amount was because it is so high. That was where the personal attacks started. An absolute joke from both sides.
SIR ERNIE
Well-Known Member
yawn
Astute
Well-Known Member
If all that happened millions who voted out would want to stay in.
So, did you read the whole article or just the headline? There was plenty of caution there.
mrtrench
Well-Known Member
It'll be up and down just as it always is. I expect a large fall tomorrow. The City likes volatility.
Some people must have made a packet ( others a loss of course ).
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
It will do whatever Murdoch decides it will do...
eastwoodsdustman
Well-Known Member
Plenty more positives than negatives from what I read although if you are ooking for negatives then you read it how you will. Glass half full or half empty depending on your viewpoint and how the referendum went.
Hardly the bottom dropping out of the market as some stated though is it?
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Not necessarily, you can have a minimum % threshold before getting any seats. That would keep out the more extreme groups. But it would make it more difficult for independents (like Martin Bell).
Somehow you need a system that allows popular individuals to get a seat but keeps out extreme groups that poll lowish over a wide area, but allows such people a voice if they poll well in a smaller area. Not easy, I'm sure there would be anomalies in any system, there certainly are in FPP, especially as there is a lot of difficulty in determining boundaries.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Boing boing, then it will settle till the next crisis.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Well just two days after we were told the pound was doomed and now it's back already to pre brexit. I would suggest this is proof the predictions the remain gave false predictions and they knowingly lied. But no we won't mention that as it can't be true.
mrtrench
Well-Known Member
Do you seriously think that the people who work in the City pay the slightest attention to Murdoch?
Astute
Well-Known Member
Yet after a day or two there was proof that we was in the shit as our economy was collapsing.......
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Quick word of farage, I have probably followed him closer than anyone on here with all respect and he might well be a populist but I would put it that populists are democrats at least. He made it clear this was a once in a lifetime vote and the result was the result. He told a few porkies and who didn't? That's politics.
He isn't part of the political class I have to disappoint you, he had a real job for 20 years hence his go in the eu parliament. He has suffered abuse for 17 years from the eu parliament he was allowed one last say after winning. He has been called every name under the sun. Watch his videos on YouTube. His rant at Tony Blair in 2005 and 2010 rant at Herman van rompuy are his two most famous so check them out. Very funny. He says things the political class don't want you to know or hear so that's why they shout him down. As Gandhi said first they ignore you and then they laugh at you then they fight you and then you win and he did on this one.
He has wanted out of the eu for 20 years and reason he got into politics in the first place. He could see what was happening. As he says it's not a bad thing for Just the Uk but for Europe this failed project. The EU is a sinking ship and there are not enough lifeboats.
Farage got us this refendum and no one else. Call him what you want it it's down to how you see him. I see him as a rare thing in politics. Someone said and I'm not old enough that back in the 60-70's labour was really labour working class and conservative was for the richer person. Now someone said they have morphed into one. How very true. They all come from the same background and careers. Never worked a day in their lives and most don't see outside London or even care.
Make no mistake and you want proof. Here is two Ed milliband is unelectable and labour lost last year as he is a posh toff who is meant to represent Mike from Sunderland. Do me a favor.
It's a joke. And to finish something really major has happened here. The people always use to protest against the establishment and now the establishment protest against us when we don't vote "right" I hope this could be the change we all need. Cameron gone and corbyn will go. Can we start to have a difference in politics now and real debates.
He isn't part of the political class I have to disappoint you, he had a real job for 20 years hence his go in the eu parliament. He has suffered abuse for 17 years from the eu parliament he was allowed one last say after winning. He has been called every name under the sun. Watch his videos on YouTube. His rant at Tony Blair in 2005 and 2010 rant at Herman van rompuy are his two most famous so check them out. Very funny. He says things the political class don't want you to know or hear so that's why they shout him down. As Gandhi said first they ignore you and then they laugh at you then they fight you and then you win and he did on this one.
He has wanted out of the eu for 20 years and reason he got into politics in the first place. He could see what was happening. As he says it's not a bad thing for Just the Uk but for Europe this failed project. The EU is a sinking ship and there are not enough lifeboats.
Farage got us this refendum and no one else. Call him what you want it it's down to how you see him. I see him as a rare thing in politics. Someone said and I'm not old enough that back in the 60-70's labour was really labour working class and conservative was for the richer person. Now someone said they have morphed into one. How very true. They all come from the same background and careers. Never worked a day in their lives and most don't see outside London or even care.
Make no mistake and you want proof. Here is two Ed milliband is unelectable and labour lost last year as he is a posh toff who is meant to represent Mike from Sunderland. Do me a favor.
It's a joke. And to finish something really major has happened here. The people always use to protest against the establishment and now the establishment protest against us when we don't vote "right" I hope this could be the change we all need. Cameron gone and corbyn will go. Can we start to have a difference in politics now and real debates.
Astute
Well-Known Member
And if you have a lot of racists in a small area?
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
As for sturgeon, already been told where to go after 5 days by the French and Spanish and Italians. Brilliant. They have regions wanting to split off also not to mention Scotland will be after their handouts.
She is a crazy lady with one agenda. People are starting to see through it IMO. She will be gone in 5 years time. Back in the bin where she came from.
What if we had a English first minister who want out of the U.K.? What then? Would he/she be a nice person?
She is a crazy lady with one agenda. People are starting to see through it IMO. She will be gone in 5 years time. Back in the bin where she came from.
What if we had a English first minister who want out of the U.K.? What then? Would he/she be a nice person?
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Or a muslim enclave, a jewish ghetto or a concentration of left wing students. Sure distributions are bound to have the odd cluster, can't guarantee 100% blandness.
Astute
Well-Known Member
This is the problem. Some people want everyone's voices heard. But only if they say what they want to hear.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Not at all... But what I do know is that you can manipulate presented figures to tell whatever story you want to.
I have nothing against a protest vote against an elite. You can always vote someone else next time if you so wish. This is, however, a fundamental and existential question - a one off - and as such should have handled by our democratically elected parliament. It is so complex, you cannot reduce it to leave or remain. Some voted against immigration, some as protest against the elite, others for national sovereignty .... I doubt whether everyone voted for the complicated negotiations which will take years and some things will be reached, others not. Some may agree with freedom of movement, but not with other parts of the EU agreements. We have a parliament to go through these things on our behalf - we have taken the sovereignty away from our elected institution and have given it to the streets. The streets can be mobilised by populists such as Farage, such as Johnson, and 40 years of gutter press blaming Brussels for all our ills. Some papers being owned by Murdoch - hardly a man of the people, but rather one of the powerful elite. We now have a mess - which a German TV commentator just now described as a 'disgrace'.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Those of us that understood fully about the leave vote knew it wouldn't be easy to start with. Germany has all the countries tied into the EU making it not easy to get out. I said on here enough times that if we voted to leave it would be hard to start with, but short term pain for long term gain makes it very worthwhile.
I don't want to be governed by Germany. If we stay in our strengths as a single country will continue to be taken away. The disgrace is how the certain members of the gravy train are now using bully boy tactics. They know it can all start collapsing around them. They say that we can't cherry pick the good parts. So there is no doubt that they know that there is plenty wrong. What they should have done is corrected what is wrong before bringing lots more countries into the union.
The idea of countries coming together as one to help each other is the right way to go. But to me the first thing that needs to go is the Euro. The strongest countries benefit while the weaker suffer. Maybe the idea is that once they join it is even harder to get out when they can't get by without handouts.
I don't want to be governed by Germany. If we stay in our strengths as a single country will continue to be taken away. The disgrace is how the certain members of the gravy train are now using bully boy tactics. They know it can all start collapsing around them. They say that we can't cherry pick the good parts. So there is no doubt that they know that there is plenty wrong. What they should have done is corrected what is wrong before bringing lots more countries into the union.
The idea of countries coming together as one to help each other is the right way to go. But to me the first thing that needs to go is the Euro. The strongest countries benefit while the weaker suffer. Maybe the idea is that once they join it is even harder to get out when they can't get by without handouts.
There is obviously plenty wrong, but not everything is wrong. The biggest problem is getting 28 countries with widely different views to act together. Despite that, we need to act together as a block in present day circumstances. A dilemma which won't be solved by brexit.
The weaker countries in the Euro were weak before the Euro. Greece was a financial disaster and should never have been accepted. Italy was constantly devaluing and for years constantly having government crisis.
Most of Spain and Portugal were poor pre EU.
Free movement of labour has helped our Economy and given poorer people the chance to work elsewhere for more money than at home.
To say we are governed by Germany is bending the truth to fit your POV. We were a counterbalance , or are you classing us alongside the likes of Estonia? We have a powerful Economy and large population. We should be up there in the EU alongside Germany bringing Europe together.
lewys33
Well-Known Member
Everyone with a brain cell knew it wouldn't just be decided after a few days or a week. It will be volatile.
This reminds me of when people call sisu liars but quote them as evidence.......
mrtrench
Well-Known Member
I know you weren't replying to me but that was my point! You cannot have a single economy that would fit these countries and the UK, France and Germany. You could accommodate all in the single trading bloc we signed up for,
CCFC Germany
Active Member
No country in the EU is being governed by Germany. Each of the countries has the same rights and votes in elections.
An important + just fact, often heavily critized by "bigger" countries like France, Germany and the UK (!) that say they should have more votes due to their bigger population than Luxembourg + Estonia.
And that because they don't get through everything like they want...
An important + just fact, often heavily critized by "bigger" countries like France, Germany and the UK (!) that say they should have more votes due to their bigger population than Luxembourg + Estonia.
And that because they don't get through everything like they want...
The EU has drastically improved the infrastructure of these countries - something they could never have afforded. That gives them a chance to become more efficient and therefore less weak. The idea is that their economies grow to even out the differences. To stay merely as a trading block would leave them disadvantaged forever - which is not in the long term interests of our region or it's people. An increase in purchasing power throughout Europe is good for suppliers and consumers. Equal rights for everyone in the EU is not directly an economic benefit, but a humanitarian necessity. A trading block as voted for 40 years ago is no longer enough as the world has progressed enormously.
mrtrench
Well-Known Member
I understand the aim, I just don't believe it's achievable. I understand that much of the money paid into the EU goes into these investments and I have no problem with that. My concern is that it would take decades to realise and I don't think that they would last the course before the medicine felt worse than the disease.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
I liked the guy behind him giving the wanker sign and face palming!
Tbf no-one knows if the long term aim will be achieved, but I have seen the improvements and the increase of wealth for at least some regions of these poorer countries. This happened relatively quickly and these people buy our goods. Take beer and cider for example. The best selection of English craft beers and cider in a normal super market that I have seen, is in Estonia. When you consider the pro capita income it is amazing. The pro capita income pre EU was too low to afford such things. Not everything is bad in the EU - could be better of course.