Andy Thorn talks utter bollox (16 Viewers)

[Otis]

Im not paid to be manager but certainly ditch the diamond and use wing backs 3-5-2 or a 5-3-2 which ever way you wanna look at it. Most of our goals come from the full backs.

That is true. Many of our goals have come from crosses from the full back positions. We don't get enough crosses in though and with the diamond formation the full backs have to cover an awful lot of ground.

 

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[BANTAM]

there's no one out there who we can afford. All the talk of 'lets give Carsley a go' etc is utter bollox

There's hundreds of managers out there who would do a better job and who would love the job for the same money.

 

[stupot07]

Im not paid to be manager but certainly ditch the diamond and use wing backs 3-5-2 or a 5-3-2 which ever way you wanna look at it. Most of our goals come from the full backs.

If most of our goals come from our fullbacks, and they are able to get plenty of crosses in each match, why do we need to play them as wingbacks, play an extra defender and further reduce the likelihood of a midfielder getting forward supporting the attack.

No one plays 532/352 anymore.

 

[cloughie]

They bring someone in who instills a never say die attitude amongst the playing staff. They bring someone in who works on the shocking lack of movement in the team. They bring someone in who gets the team to play as a unit instead of under these tactics of massive gaps between the front two and the midfield.

Yes, said previously, it will be a struggle this season whatever, but there are undoubtedly things we could change to improve our chances.

2 massive good points there Otis. We desperately need a never say die attitude instilled into the team and someone to work on the shocking lack of movement in the team. The system falls down due to the lack of movement and forward thinking.

At times I despair! If we, the so called untrainned eye can see these things, how come, the payed professionals are oblivious to the faults of the team

 

[ccfc4ever]

Im not saying we will stay up with another manager but surley we need to gamble & give ourselves the best chance. I dont care how much money he hasnt had or what player have gone. He cant even get us to do the basics right (yes players have to take the blame for that aswel but so does he).

Being stuburn & saying you wont change the formation because we dont have the players to play 4 4 2 when we have won 2 in 19 & only scored more than 1 goal in 3 games this season just makes him look stupid.

Against Cardiff & Brighton we looked clueless & yet again our fullbacks were exposed.

Nice bloke but nice bloke dont win you games.

Time to gamble!!!!!

 

[stupot07]

That is true. Many of our goals have come from crosses from the full back positions. We don't get enough crosses in though and with the diamond formation the full backs have to cover an awful lot of ground.

They would have to cover the same amount of ground as a wing back, we'd just have 1 less midfield player.

 

[CUS Wyken]

If most of our goals come from our fullbacks, and they are able to get plenty of crosses in each match, why do we need to play them as wingbacks, play an extra defender and further reduce the likelihood of a midfielder getting forward supporting the attack.

No one plays 532/352 anymore.

So because no-one plays 3-5-2 does that mean we can't?

1 goal a game is not good enough and do you watch us play? None of our midfielders push forward as it is. Bigi, Thomas rarely go into the final 3rd. Thorn should be telling them to go forward.

 

[Otis]

They would have to cover the same amount of ground as a wing back, we'd just have 1 less midfield player.

Didn't say they wouldn't. Wasn't me advocating the wing back formation.

 

[sky blue john]

Im not paid to be manager but certainly ditch the diamond and use wing backs 3-5-2 or a 5-3-2 which ever way you wanna look at it. Most of our goals come from the full backs.

I agree with your choice of system it should in theory tighten up the defence. The only problem I see is we very rarely seem to have three centrebacks fit at any one time.

 

[Otis]

I agree with your choice of system it should in theory tighten up the defence. The only problem I see is we very rarely seem to have three centrebacks fit at any one time.

We have on many occasions. Last 2 or 3 games we have had Cranie, Keogh, Cameron and Wood. That's 4. Previous to that we had McPake available too for a few games.

 

[CUS Wyken]

I agree with your choice of system it should in theory tighten up the defence. The only problem I see is we very rarely seem to have three centrebacks fit at any one time.

The injuries are a concern and the centre half position is where we have most players.

I just feel he needs to change because we can all see the current system is not working.

 

[Grendel]

Good facts and can't argue with any of them !!!!!
Who are Sisu going to bring in that they can afford and improve our current league position without squad investment ??????????

It seems every post now reverts to the same argument - Thorn in / Thorn out. It is fairly obvious which camp I am in. My frustration is that the main response to keeping Thorn is that we cannot afford anyone else. That says more about Thorn than any critic needs to. If someone in an organisation continually fails thay get removed and a replacement is then sought.
He clearly is not capable as a manager. Comments that say no other manager could improve the situation are senseless. People who say anyone - Ferguson etc. would be incapable of improving the situation are senseless. What does that mean - Thorn is as good a manager as Ferguson or the club is in such a state no-one can improve the players as they are that bad. Well if that latter is true (it certainly ain't the former) then lets just remove him and replace him with no-one. Let's all enter a prize draw every week and be manager for a day if you win. Why not? It makes no difference.
Also if the players are so so bad (players who are taking £5 million in wages out of the club) the Chief Scout must be sacked as well - who is that by the way?
Some fans say give Thorn a medal -- what for, the easiest job in football? He can produce the worst results in living memory and still get away with it.

 

[sky blue john]

We have on many occasions. Last 2 or 3 games we have had Cranie, Keogh, Cameron and Wood. That's 4. Previous to that we had McPake available too for a few games.

If you have three at the back you have two markers and a sweeper. The sweeper needs to be able to comunicate well and position the two markers and wing backs. But the sweeper can only do this if they are a good reader of the game.
The centre halfs marking job is easy all you have to do challenge for the ball and listen to instructions from the sweeper. Based on my comments on what the sweepers role is, which player we currently have do you think could fill this role ? I'm not sure we have one. Its definately a system I would play if I thought we had someone capable.

 

[sky blue john]

It seems every post now reverts to the same argument - Thorn in / Thorn out. It is fairly obvious which camp I am in. My frustration is that the main response to keeping Thorn is that we cannot afford anyone else. That says more about Thorn than any critic needs to. If someone in an organisation continually fails thay get removed and a replacement is then sought.
He clearly is not capable as a manager. Comments that say no other manager could improve the situation are senseless. People who say anyone - Ferguson etc. would be incapable of improving the situation are senseless. What does that mean - Thorn is as good a manager as Ferguson or the club is in such a state no-one can improve the players as they are that bad. Well if that latter is true (it certainly ain't the former) then lets just remove him and replace him with no-one. Let's all enter a prize draw every week and be manager for a day if you win. Why not? It makes no difference.
Also if the players are so so bad (players who are taking £5 million in wages out of the club) the Chief Scout must be sacked as well - who is that by the way?
Some fans say give Thorn a medal -- what for, the easiest job in football? He can produce the worst results in living memory and still get away with it.

Sack the owners !!!!!!!!
Sack the players !!!!!!!!
I don't hear you calling for their heads surely they are equally at fault ?

 

[Grendel]

Sack the owners !!!!!!!!
Sack the players !!!!!!!!
I don't hear you calling for their heads surely they are equally at fault ?

Well yes but sacking the owner is a paradox. They will have to go by other means. SISU will not get rid of him anyway they lack interest in football issues. That is not the point. The point is Thorn is being paid money for a job he is not capable of doing. Regardless of the boardroom he is clueless and it is time to go.

 

[ICHAN]

Must agree with kduffy on this one don't agree much with him but this time yes..
Board can't sack themselves and nor can the players be sacked unfortunatly although some should be for the amount of effort there putting in especially some of the experianced ones.
So there is only one solution weather thats fair or not depends on which side of the AT fence you sit on but a time has come when something needs to happen.

 

[Otis]

Sack the owners !!!!!!!!
Sack the players !!!!!!!!
I don't hear you calling for their heads surely they are equally at fault ?

We can't sack the owners.
We can't sack the players.
We can sack the manager.

Also can we please put to bed this nonsense about AT being a scapegoat! Fans are blaming the board. Fans are blaming the players. Fans are also blaming the manager. All have a degree of culpability.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

And that's it, it's because people have lost patience. Really, we all knew we were in massive trouble before a ball was kicked. But most hoped that, by some miracle, we'd be OK. It was denial, as football is all about hope. I just couldn't see it with the squad we have-too little depth, too many crocks, and for all the promise of the youth, we know they can't play every minute of every game at an acceptable level yet. If you'd accepted relegation like me pre-season then you wouldn't be blaming the manager now. I don't want us to go down, and it is sad to have accepted it so early, but it really was entirely inevitable IMO.

I just think it's the done thing in football to blame the manager. I can see the points of criticisms that some have made, but in the grand scheme of things it's stuff that might make maybe a couple of points difference to our season. Not enough to keep us up, yes, WHOEVER is in charge.

I know a lot of people who previously blamed the board now blame Thorn. The frustration at not being able to get to them means he, naturally, is the only available target for frustrations. SISU have their scapegoat. It's all going perfectly to plan :facepalm:

 

[sky blue john]

We will just have to agree to differ in opinion I just don't see anything to gain by sacking the manager especially when the root causes aren't being fixed first.

 

[sky blue john]

Will we now start seeing Thorn protests and sack the manager chants deflecting the attention away from Sisu ?

 

[Otis]

We will just have to agree to differ in opinion I just don't see anything to gain by sacking the manager especially when the root causes aren't being fixed first.

But you know as well as me that the root causes are not going to be fixed! There is in fact only one change we can make.

 

[Grendel]

And that's it, it's because people have lost patience. Really, we all knew we were in massive trouble before a ball was kicked. But most hoped that, by some miracle, we'd be OK. It was denial, as football is all about hope. I just couldn't see it with the squad we have-too little depth, too many crocks, and for all the promise of the youth, we know they can't play every minute of every game at an acceptable level yet. If you'd accepted relegation like me pre-season then you wouldn't be blaming the manager now. I don't want us to go down, and it is sad to have accepted it so early, but it really was entirely inevitable IMO.

I just think it's the done thing in football to blame the manager. I can see the points of criticisms that some have made, but in the grand scheme of things it's stuff that might make maybe a couple of points difference to our season. Not enough to keep us up, yes, WHOEVER is in charge.

I know a lot of people who previously blamed the board now blame Thorn. The frustration at not being able to get to them means he, naturally, is the only available target for frustrations. SISU have their scapegoat. It's all going perfectly to plan :facepalm:

The difference though between me and you is that in my opinion if we had plenty of financial backing I think he would still be a disaster. He is a typical example in business of someone who should have been careful what he wished for. Promoted above his ability and it is being exposed now every week.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

But you know as well as me that the root causes are not going to be fixed! There is in fact only one change we can make.

Entirely proving my point: we want to change the manager because we can't change the owners.

 

[Otis]

Entirely proving my point: we want to change the manager because we can't change the owners.

No, not at all. Think you are missing the point. I said the above but you are forgetting that I also said they are all culpable (board, manager, players).

People want to change AT because he is making a number of mistakes and showing his inexperience.

 

[Grendel]

Entirely proving my point: we want to change the manager because we can't change the owners.

But that is the same at Blackburn and any other club in strife isn't it? You can't change the ownes. Anyway if you did in this example they would change the manager anyway!!

 

[Otis]

And that's it, it's because people have lost patience. Really, we all knew we were in massive trouble before a ball was kicked. But most hoped that, by some miracle, we'd be OK. It was denial, as football is all about hope. I just couldn't see it with the squad we have-too little depth, too many crocks, and for all the promise of the youth, we know they can't play every minute of every game at an acceptable level yet. If you'd accepted relegation like me pre-season then you wouldn't be blaming the manager now. I don't want us to go down, and it is sad to have accepted it so early, but it really was entirely inevitable IMO.

I just think it's the done thing in football to blame the manager. I can see the points of criticisms that some have made, but in the grand scheme of things it's stuff that might make maybe a couple of points difference to our season. Not enough to keep us up, yes, WHOEVER is in charge.

I know a lot of people who previously blamed the board now blame Thorn. The frustration at not being able to get to them means he, naturally, is the only available target for frustrations. SISU have their scapegoat. It's all going perfectly to plan :facepalm:

Simply do not buy this one bit. Thorn is probably already responsible for more than 2 points lost and it's only 17 games in. You think he is only going to be responsible for a couple of points the entire season? :facepalm:

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

No, not at all. Think you are missing the point. I said the above but you are forgetting that I also said they are all culpable (board, manager, players).

People want to change AT because he is making a number of mistakes and showing his inexperience.

So you don't think in any way whatsoever that people what the board to sack the manager because it's the only change we can make? You are contradicting yourself if so.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

Simply do not buy this one bit. Thorn is probably already responsible for more than 2 points lost and it's only 17 games in. You think he is only going to be responsible for a couple of points the entire season? :facepalm:

So any points we gain, he's not responsible for them? :facepalm:

 

[Otis]

So any points we gain, he's not responsible for them? :facepalm:

and how many points have we gained again? :facepalm:

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

And how many not gained are the managers fault? You'll say many more than me, as it's opinion based. Stalemate again. Maybe, one day, I'll agree with you on something Otis! Unlikely, though.

 

[Otis]

So you don't think in any way whatsoever that people what the board to sack the manager because it's the only change we can make? You are contradicting yourself if so.

Where am I contradicting myself? I am not contradicting myself at all. :facepalm: People would like to change the board, we can't. People would like to change the players, we can't do that either. People want to change the manager. This is something that can be done.

Simple really. People do not want to change the manager because it is the only change that can be made. They want all the changes. Only one can happen.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

I think they do want to change the manager as it's the only change that is likely.

 

[CUS Wyken]

If the manager for arguments sake was Coleman, Dowie or Adams in charge. Alot more would be calling for there heads. Because its Andy Thorn who is a likeable fella people feel sorry for him.

Fans need to realise that Thorn is not answer and should stop using the sympathy vote for him. Many on here like myself ask what good has thorn actually don't while in charge and there only reply is the neat football which is ineffective. Can anyone tell me what good thorn has done this season? He hasn't really and that's the issue for me.

 

[Otis]

I think they do want to change the manager as it's the only change that is likely.

Well some may I suppose, but not me. I desperately want AT to be a success. Wish he didn't give us anything to critisise him about. I really do. Unfortunately there has been too much and we are only 19 games in.

 

[Grendel]

Where am I contradicting myself? I am not contradicting myself at all. :facepalm: People would like to change the board, we can't. People would like to change the players, we can't do that either. People want to change the manager. This is something that can be done.

Simple really. People do not want to change the manager because it is the only change that can be made. They want all the changes. Only one can happen.

And this is the whole point. Why anyone doesn't want a change now defeats me. Thorn must practice black magic and hypnotise the crowd into thinking he is some kind of messiah. Coleman, Boothroyd, Dowie all had better records than this loser but they were never as defended as he is. It is mystifying.