Otis
Well-Known Member
Just what sort of outcry do you think there would be if England picked Championship players!
It would all be talk of how low England have fallen and the death of English football.
Euro 2016 big thread (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter Nick
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It would all be talk of how low England have fallen and the death of English football.
sw88
Chief Commentator!
Including one free agent who didn't get a renewed contract at Reading, and has been a star for them so far! Part of me wonders if he turned down a contract for financial reasons, but still, hes part of it and standing out
vow
Well-Known Member
Not a chance!
vow
Well-Known Member
We started Italia 90 with a back 4 and soon changed it to 5 or a 3 whichever way you wanna look at it.
Euro 96 we played 4 at the back in a xmas tree formation 4-3-2-1 which then manifested into a 4-4-2 at times.
speedie87
Well-Known Member
Your right I remember the famous xmas tree formation also. I heard Pearce on the radio talking about us playing 3 at the back though and we def were by the end of tournament as this was the team v Germany. ( I think it may have been as Neville was injured or suspended)
Seaman
Southgate Adams Pearce
Mcmanman platt nice gazza Anderton
Shearer sheringham
sw88
Chief Commentator!
Excellently put. Apparently.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Just says 'Well I never! Just checked the history books and found out that I am actually Welsh! '
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Why would he want to take 2 steps backwards?
sw88
Chief Commentator!
Excellently put in that case and something I can relate to without the books. Thanks Grandad
Otis
Well-Known Member
Do you want your pocket money this week or not, you cheeky young whippersnapper!Excellently put in that case and something I can relate to without the books. Thanks Grandad
vow
Well-Known Member
Indeed you're right about the Germany game, Kuntz.
Gazolba
Well-Known Member
Nowhere in my post did I mention passing. In most cases, Rooney is so slow he fails to control the ball and gives it away. He never gets to make the passes he should. Yes, when he has plenty of time and no-one is pressing him, he makes passes, usually sideways or backwards. That is the bare minimum you would expect of a very highly paid professional footballer. The fact is the entire team structure was organized around playing Rooney, which necessitated playing other players out of position.
Otis
Well-Known Member
I didn't say you did mention passing. I just wanted to highlight some of his qualities. Against Iceland he was giving the ball away when he was under no pressure.
skybluesam66
Well-Known Member
French showing us how bad England were
Otis
Well-Known Member
Shows how bad our finishing was.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No just how bad we are. How arrogant our players are. How behind we are. Making Hodgson the scapegoat is really not addressing the issue. In fact if you appoint an English manager who do you pick. The fact Pardew is even mentioned shows the problem. Influx of foreign players and managers in wrecking the game.
Otis
Well-Known Member
We WERE really bad. I don't believe for a single second we ARE really bad.
Wrong tactics, formations, players out of position, players not fit, players out of form.
Had we sorted all that out we could have easily gone further in this competition without doubt.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Which everyone says after every competition.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Yep and we keep getting it wrong and keep picking individuals rather than a team.
CCFC Germany
Active Member
It was the difference between a team (!) and 11 uselful/good players... Have a look at Wales with just one "star" on their squad.
Otis
Well-Known Member
We had Ericksson when we had some really good players in Beckham and Scholes and Gerrard and Owen and Ferdinand and Carrick and Ashley Cole and Campbell and Rooney and Lampard and Gary Neville, yet we went ultra defensive at times, trying to hold on to leads and defending far too deep.
Wrong tactics.
Plain to see how many times we change things and play people out of position and players who should not have been picked.
Can't remember who said it (might have been Shearer), but he said that we had a system in place for the 16 qualifying games (or however many it was) this campaign, but then as soon as we reached the tournament we threw it out if the window and started chopping and changing and moving players about and out of their normal positions and comfort zones
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
I think something must be to do with Hodgson not really managing players of that calibre much before. He seemed to be overawed by the quality of players at his disposal and wanted to play as many as possible. Shearer said going into '96 even though he hadn't scored for England in something like 3 years Venables told him he was 1st choice no matter what. I know Kane wasn't really fit but you can understand if the lad was feeling under more pressure knowing that a bit of bad play could have him dropped.
Gazolba
Well-Known Member
Don't know if anyone has posted this but some interesting facts in there:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/jul/02/england-euro-2016-friction-roy-hodgson-gary-neville
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/jul/02/england-euro-2016-friction-roy-hodgson-gary-neville
Gazolba
Well-Known Member
Another very interesting article about Iceland:
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ise-euro-2016-gylfi-sigurdsson-lars-lagerback
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ise-euro-2016-gylfi-sigurdsson-lars-lagerback
Otis
Well-Known Member
Well there you go. Infighting and disagreements within the coaching staff. Says it all really.
What chances did we create against Iceland? I genuinely can't remember any.
As for us not being really bad Otis, Wales have won as many knockout games in the last week as we have in 20 years. This is the first tournament they've qualified for in how long?
That's how bad we are.
Otis
Well-Known Member
But we are talking about different things, I think. I think we are an average team. Think a lot of the talk is of the players not being good enough.
I am saying with the players we have we should be doing better as a team than we are.
I know our qualifying group wasn't strong, but we won every game. Every match and only let 3 goals in. I don't see how you can be a bad team winning every single match. Weak group but if we were such a bad team we would have struggled much more.
We are poor when it comes to tournaments and that points to something else, something mentally not right or ill preparation.
When you look back to the Eriksson era and the players we had, it is quite scandalous that we didn't have a better team.
We have failed for years and have always been found to be mentally lacking.
I am saying with the players we have we should be doing better as a team than we are.
I know our qualifying group wasn't strong, but we won every game. Every match and only let 3 goals in. I don't see how you can be a bad team winning every single match. Weak group but if we were such a bad team we would have struggled much more.
We are poor when it comes to tournaments and that points to something else, something mentally not right or ill preparation.
When you look back to the Eriksson era and the players we had, it is quite scandalous that we didn't have a better team.
We have failed for years and have always been found to be mentally lacking.
Eriksson got us consistently to quarter finals where we lost narrowly to good sides, twice on pens. He never humiliated us like we have been the past four tournaments.
Otis
Well-Known Member
In the 2006 tournament with Beckham and Owen and Gerrard and Lampard and Neville and Ashley Cole and Carrick and Rooney and Campbell and Ferdinand, we blustered and stuttered and were not convincing at all, drawing with Sweden, only beating Paraguay 1-0 and flattering to deceive against Trinidad and Tobago.
The fact is, the loss against Iceland wasn't down to us having poor players, it was that tactically we got it wrong, formation wise we got it wrong, selection wise we got it wrong and the spirit and application was lacking.
It happens tournament after tournament. Players either freeze, go missing or we set ourselves up as a team wrong.
The way we played against Iceland was unforgivable and we all know the players simply did not perform to their abilities.
If we played our best in these tournaments and were beaten by better sides, then fair enough, but nearly every time we see England underperforming. That points to something so much greater than the players not being good enough.
We underperform and don't do ourselves justice and then are left scratching our heads.
Badly organised, spirit not right, wrong tactics, wrong systems, wrong formations.
The fact is, the loss against Iceland wasn't down to us having poor players, it was that tactically we got it wrong, formation wise we got it wrong, selection wise we got it wrong and the spirit and application was lacking.
It happens tournament after tournament. Players either freeze, go missing or we set ourselves up as a team wrong.
The way we played against Iceland was unforgivable and we all know the players simply did not perform to their abilities.
If we played our best in these tournaments and were beaten by better sides, then fair enough, but nearly every time we see England underperforming. That points to something so much greater than the players not being good enough.
We underperform and don't do ourselves justice and then are left scratching our heads.
Badly organised, spirit not right, wrong tactics, wrong systems, wrong formations.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
I know this game was nearly a year ago and that Lithuania are dross but the side that played them in tbr last qualitifying game was:
Butland
Walker
Jones
Jagielka
Gibbs
Shelvey
Oxlade-chamberlain
Lallana
Barkley
Vardy
Kane
Only 2 started the game against Iceland and half weren't even in the squad
Even if you want to write that off as experimental a month earlier the side that won 2-0 against the swiss was
Hart
Clyne
Cahill
Smalling
Shaw
Milner
Shelvey
Delph (barkley coming on after 3 mins)
Oxlade-chamberlain
Sterling
Rooney
Only 5 started against Iceland and Rooney was played in a completely different position.
In comparison, wales crunch game against Bosnia aroubd thr same time we played thr swiss where they clinched qualification despite losing the game
Hennessay
Gunter
Williams
Davies
Richards
Taylor
Allen
Ramsey
Ledley
Bale
Robson-Kanu.
10 of those 11 all started against Belgium.
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Butland
Walker
Jones
Jagielka
Gibbs
Shelvey
Oxlade-chamberlain
Lallana
Barkley
Vardy
Kane
Only 2 started the game against Iceland and half weren't even in the squad
Even if you want to write that off as experimental a month earlier the side that won 2-0 against the swiss was
Hart
Clyne
Cahill
Smalling
Shaw
Milner
Shelvey
Delph (barkley coming on after 3 mins)
Oxlade-chamberlain
Sterling
Rooney
Only 5 started against Iceland and Rooney was played in a completely different position.
In comparison, wales crunch game against Bosnia aroubd thr same time we played thr swiss where they clinched qualification despite losing the game
Hennessay
Gunter
Williams
Davies
Richards
Taylor
Allen
Ramsey
Ledley
Bale
Robson-Kanu.
10 of those 11 all started against Belgium.
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