RIP Labour (2 Viewers)

[Grendel]

I don't think I've ever voted labour (perhaps once) but no one can deny the vital role this organisation has played in workers rights and equality issues.

Tonight, however, I am now convinced that this party is at the brink of oblivion. I witnessed on channel 4 news a most disturbing interview with a member of the Labour NEC - I would urge people to watch this. A woman from the committee was interviewed in a deeply traumatised state and shaking with fear. She told of bullying intimidation and threats from Corbyn supporters to force a decision there way and how Corbyn became very adamant a secret ballot would not be acceptable to him. We are now at a stage where the hard left show their true colours. Bullying, threats of violence to get their way. McDonnell was abusing the "plotters" - how anyone can plot against a man whose voted against his own party 500 times - well.

Corbyn will win the election. The Zionist anarchist thugs who support his Stalinist vision are in the party and will ensure that.

The vast majority of labour MP's who oppose this dangerous man have to act. They must all resign and form a labour independent party - this will be the official opposition. Corbyn must be silenced and his commander in chief - the Terrorist hugger McDonnell (i am convinced he's a megalomaniac) must be sidelined for good.

Either way a fine and traditional institution is dying

 

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[MAFF]

Agreed. As a Labour member I can't see the party surviving with Corbyn as leader. Man is a complete joke and a disgrace. Very sad.

 

[Ian1779]

Labour died the day it tried to be like the Tories..

 

[MAFF]

Labour died the day it tried to be like the Tories..

lazy comparison but i assume you're referring to the 3 landslide elections. Wake me up when Corbyn even comes close to an election win.

 

[Liquid Gold]

lazy comparison but i assume you're referring to the 3 landslide elections. Wake me up when Corbyn even comes close to an election win.

He hasn't had the chance though, why can't the PLP get behind him for a single election. If they loose then they can legitimately say his politics don't work and another candidate of his ilk won't be elected leader again. By attempting to oust him like this they are making themselves look poor and their party look a shambles. 1 general election for a leader elected with an enormous mandate isn't too much to ask is it?

 

[Grendel]

Labour died the day it tried to be like the Tories..

It's never done that. It found a liberal centre ground as did the Tories. It almost died when Benn tried a revolution in the early 80's and failed badly.

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

I am a traditional labour voter but can't see me voting for Corbyn, as a party we must have somebody that is electable and more suitable to lead the country I am a huge fan of Andy Burnham and would hope he could push out the new witch May.

 

[Philosoraptor]

Trust me, there is nothing liberal about the present Labour Party. In Coventry, what it lacks in ethics is more than made up for by the incompetence of some of their councillors.

 

[chiefdave]

A woman from the committee was interviewed in a deeply traumatised state and shaking with fear. She told of bullying intimidation and threats from Corbyn supporters to force a decision there way and how Corbyn became very adamant a secret ballot would not be acceptable to him. We are now at a stage where the hard left show their true colours. Bullying, threats of violence to get their way. McDonnell was abusing the "plotters" - how anyone can plot against a man whose voted against his own party 500 times - well.

While it is obviously not on to bully anyone it strikes me as a touch odd that Joanna Baxter, who you describe as in a deeply traumatised state, has spent the entire day doing media rounds.

Of course its easy to present a one sided picture if you conveniently ignore all the pulling and threats going in the other direction.

Why should it be a secret ballot, it hasn't been before. The NEC is elected to represent the members, those members have a right to know how their elected representatives have voted, exactly the same as happens in parliament.

Interesting to note that the vote on changing the voting rules wasn't even on the agenda and was left until after Corbyn and several NEC members thought to support Corbyn had left the meeting believing the full agenda had been completed.

 

[Grendel]

While it is obviously not on to bully anyone it strikes me as a touch odd that Joanna Baxter, who you describe as in a deeply traumatised state, has spent the entire day doing media rounds.

Of course its easy to present a one sided picture if you conveniently ignore all the pulling and threats going in the other direction.

Why should it be a secret ballot, it hasn't been before. The NEC is elected to represent the members, those members have a right to know how their elected representatives have voted, exactly the same as happens in parliament.

Interesting to note that the vote on changing the voting rules wasn't even on the agenda and was left until after Corbyn and several NEC members thought to support Corbyn had left the meeting believing the full agenda had been completed.

Did you see the interview?

 

[MAFF]

He hasn't had the chance though, why can't the PLP get behind him for a single election. If they loose then they can legitimately say his politics don't work and another candidate of his ilk won't be elected leader again. By attempting to oust him like this they are making themselves look poor and their party look a shambles. 1 general election for a leader elected with an enormous mandate isn't too much to ask is it?

Because there is no way Labour can win! Everyone knows it. With Corbyn in charge Labour will be wiped out and the MPs can't risk that. They have a duty to their constituents and having Corbyn in control goes against the best interests of the people.

 

[Otis]

Think Labour need a new charismatic leader.

A Tony Blair with all the bad bits cut out.

 

[Captain Dart]

Think Labour need a new charismatic leader.

A Tony Blair with all the bad bits cut out.

The hollow man.

 

[Otis]

The hollow man.

Kevin Bacon?

 

[Captain Dart]

Kevin Bacon?

Nothing that substantial .

 

[Johnnythespider]

I don't think I've ever voted labour (perhaps once) but no one can deny the vital role this organisation has played in workers rights and equality issues.

Tonight, however, I am now convinced that this party is at the brink of oblivion. I witnessed on channel 4 news a most disturbing interview with a member of the Labour NEC - I would urge people to watch this. A woman from the committee was interviewed in a deeply traumatised state and shaking with fear. She told of bullying intimidation and threats from Corbyn supporters to force a decision there way and how Corbyn became very adamant a secret ballot would not be acceptable to him. We are now at a stage where the hard left show their true colours. Bullying, threats of violence to get their way. McDonnell was abusing the "plotters" - how anyone can plot against a man whose voted against his own party 500 times - well.

Corbyn will win the election. The Zionist anarchist thugs who support his Stalinist vision are in the party and will ensure that.

The vast majority of labour MP's who oppose this dangerous man have to act. They must all resign and form a labour independent party - this will be the official opposition. Corbyn must be silenced and his commander in chief - the Terrorist hugger McDonnell (i am convinced he's a megalomaniac) must be sidelined for good.

Either way a fine and traditional institution is dying

Out of interest which time did you vote for them? I agree that they should break away and form there own party. The fact Corbyn has received such support from the membership, suggests that there are a lot of people who feel let down by Blair's new labour and are crying out for someone to stand up for them. Could Labour win with a more "Presentable" leader aligned to the centre of British politics, a centre which gets nudged further to the right with every passing year, I don't think it could, it needs it's traditional vote to win, it needs it's Scottish vote to return and the disenfranchised who support Corbyn for that. It's a quandary and no mistake. For the record I like Corbyn, and for someone to complain about bullying and threats after all that he has been subjected to recently beggars belief.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[skybluetony176]

Kevin Bacon?

He's bound to make a pigs ear of it.

 

[chiefdave]

Did you see the interview?

Yes I did. Also saw her give the same interview several times today.

I've also seen Corbyn condemn this type of activity

I am calling on all Labour Party members and supporters to act with calm and treat each other with respect and dignity, even where there is disagreement. I utterly condemn any violence or threats, which undermine the democracy within our party and have no place in our politics.

Oddly the death threats made against Corbyn this week don't seem to have had as much media coverage.

 

[Ian1779]

We will only ever know if Corbyn is unelectable if we actually have an election.

All the political analysts are doing is measuring him against their notion of mainstream politics, yet the referendum result sent out an unequivocal message that the electorate does not want mainstream politics anymore.

How exactly is Angela Eagle going to 'save Labour' when her only policy to date is to not be Corbyn. It seems like her idea is to return Labour to being a watered down version of the Tories. 170 MP's supposedly fighting for an identity that no longer exists.

Corbyn will win the leadership election - and then the other MP's have a choice to make. He has to find a way to get those that don't vote to come and vote for him and his party. Too many historical Labour supporters are now so brainwashed that they will only vote for whatever News Corporation tells them to.

 

[chiefdave]

They have a duty to their constituents

They seem to be doing their best to ignore their constituents. This was only a week ago from Eagle's CLP

Last night at our branch meeting Wallasey BRANCH Labour Party passed, with an overwhelming majority, a motion of support for Jeremy Corbyn as Leader of the Labour Party . As such we wish to send our message of support to our Leader Jeremy Corbyn at this time as we work together on the larger issues effecting our society.

There's been similar at other CLPs. Should the PLP not reflect the wishes of the CLPs and the membership in general?

Coincidentally the NEC has now suspended all CLP meetings until after the election has taken place. Along with changing the rules on who can vote to exclude over 100,000 party members. Not to mention Eagle calling for a ban on any protest at any political events - a basic democratic right.

The fact Corbyn has received such support from the membership, suggests that there are a lot of people who feel let down by Blair's new labour and are crying out for someone to stand up for them.

I find the 'unelectable' tag a bit strange. It seems to have come from the Tory supporting media and is now being thrown about in a similar way to Fisher saying 3 weeks. Say it often enough and hopefully everyone will believe it.

The facts are he got the biggest win in a leadership contest in history. There are now more Labour members than ever before and more than the other major parties combined. When he goes somewhere to speak crowds turn up, to such an extent he is regularly speaking outside venues as there isn't enough room for those who want to see him - I can't remember any politician in my lifetime having that sort of reaction. He is getting increasing polling ratings, both among Labour members and in general, in fact he's been polling ahead of Cameron. And of course he's been an MP since 1983 so someone is voting for him.

it needs it's traditional vote to win, it needs it's Scottish vote to return and the disenfranchised who support Corbyn for that

That is the question that doesn't seem to get asked. While people say Labour won't win with Corbyn would they win with anyone else. With the political landscape in Scotland as it us its virtually impossible for Labour to win a clear majority. It would take an unprecedented swing in England. However since Corbyn has become leader other parties, including the SNP, have appeared more open to working with Labour. That could be their only way forward.

What is odd is that when you actually look at Corbyn's policies you'd struggle to find something that is 'out there' in the way the media likes to portray them. In fact many of his policies, such as renationalisation of the railways, are hugely popular among voters according to polls.

The problem is these days elections are carried out in the media. Having policies that people agree with won't be enough to win Labour an election.

If their is a split I hope the rumours of the more centrist Tories splitting off to join with those leaving Labour. That could really shake things up.

 

[chiefdave]

To put unelectable into context for Labour before you account for the boundary changes and the issue of the SNP it would require a swing that has only been achieved twice in history. 1906 and 1945.

To win the next election they would need to gain in the region of 106 seats after the boundary changes (which will effectively give the Conservatives around 20 extra seats). Given the situation is Scotland they will most likely need to be gains in England. That's a swing of getting on for 12% And on the basis it will need to be in England they will need to win seats they have never won before.

As a result of boundary changes it is likely Labour will need 40% of the vote to get any majority while the Conservatives will only need 36% To put that in to context Labour won a 66 seat majority in 2005 with 35% of the vote.

 

[ccfctommy]

Think Labour need a new charismatic leader.

A Tony Blair with all the bad bits cut out.

And they want Angela Bloody Eagle.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

lazy comparison but i assume you're referring to the 3 landslide elections. Wake me up when Corbyn even comes close to an election win.

Errrrrr...he HAS already been elected by his own party members

...onwards & upwards PUSB

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Think Labour need a new charismatic leader.

A Tony Blair with all the bad bits cut out.

Dave 'The Cardboard Box' it is then

...onwards & upwards PUSB

 

[rob9872]

Centre left or centre right I'm not fussed, but it seems we only have extremes who are so out of touch with the people. Corbyn needs to join dave nellists lot and leave it to the sensible players. David milliband or hillary Benn would make far more credible and electable opposition but it seems the unions are hell bent on destroying their chances. They want rid of the tories bur are too stubborn or stupid to think that polar opposite is what people want.

 

[Astute]

Errrrrr...he HAS already been elected by his own party members

...onwards & upwards PUSB

It cost £3 to join the Labour party and get a vote. It is well known that a very large amount of Tory supporters joined to vote him in. He is seen as unelectable. He only got into the selection because they wanted one more to vote for. He didn't have enough supporters.

The Labour rules have changed for the next vote. If you wasn't a part of the Labour party at the start of the year you won't get a vote. And they have put it up to £25.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

It is well known that a very large amount of Tory supporters joined to vote him in.

I actually find it rather insulting to suggest new joiners of a left wing party, cannot be left wingers voting for a left wing leader... but instead must be right wingers.

This suggestion is absolute toss. It's not well-known in the slightest, it's people attempting to rationalise something they can't understand, as opposed to looking at other factors surrounding both the country at large, and the party itself, that contribute(d) to Corbyn getting a majority within his party. Let's not forget, after all, he won the leadership election in every section of his party... bar MPs.

Or in other words, he'd have won without the support of new members.

Now... there are many things Corbyn has shown himself lacking in, as a *leader* and many of those are concerns before he became leader, crystalising. Therefore fine, I can buy the desire to challenge now, no problem with that. The way the parliamentary party have gone about attempting to come up with an alternative has been shambolic in the extreme however, and their initial alternative has shown little to suggest they are the better option (I know little about Owen Smith). As such, when (as seems likely) Corbyn wins the coming leadership contest, they need to look at themselves and ask why that is, rather than turning round and blaming their leader. They have the power to change their leader if they think about it... and they clearly haven't.

 

[Astute]

http://labourlist.org/2016/07/conte...e-and-rules-for-leadership-election-revealed/

Try reading it yourself. 84% who joined for £3 right before the vote then voted Corbyn. Are you trying to tell me 84% of the Labour party members wanted him in as leader?

He did get just over 50% of the long term members vote. 50.4% to be precise. But 105,598 paid their £3 and got a vote. And 84% of them voted Corbyn. And yet you know for sure that there wasn't a conspiracy. If so why have Labour changed the rules this time.

Sorry got it wrong. 50.4% of the long term voters didn't vote for Corbyn. But out of the last minute joiners only 16% didn't vote for Corbyn.

Suppose you will still call it absolute toss although the evidence is undeniable.

 

[Ian1779]

That doesn't mean that the 84% are all secretly Tories either.

The impression I get is that a lot of those £3 members are actually young people that previously have had no interest in politics nor are likely to have ever voted. However he's done it he seems to have engaged younger people - perhaps because they see very little opportunity in their lives going forward, and he suggests there may be a better way. Whether he can deliver on that may be another matter.

 

[Grendel]

That doesn't mean that the 84% are all secretly Tories either.

The impression I get is that a lot of those £3 members are actually young people that previously have had no interest in politics nor are likely to have ever voted. However he's done it he seems to have engaged younger people - perhaps because they see very little opportunity in their lives going forward, and he suggests there may be a better way. Whether he can deliver on that may be another matter.

Deliver what? A 1970's vision of Britain?

A few years ago nick griffin managed to get people to come out and vote for the first time.

To be fair griffin and Corbyn have many similar ideals

 

[Astute]

That doesn't mean that the 84% are all secretly Tories either.

The impression I get is that a lot of those £3 members are actually young people that previously have had no interest in politics nor are likely to have ever voted. However he's done it he seems to have engaged younger people - perhaps because they see very little opportunity in their lives going forward, and he suggests there may be a better way. Whether he can deliver on that may be another matter.

I didn't say all 84%. Are you just trying to cover up for the person who said it certainly didn't happen?

Are you saying that it doesn't look suspicious that less than 50% already registered with the Labour party voted for Corbyn but 84% that paid £3 to vote put their vote for Corbyn? And why is it that they have changed the way that they do it now?

 

[Ian1779]

I didn't say all 84%. Are you just trying to cover up for the person who said it certainly didn't happen?

Are you saying that it doesn't look suspicious that less than 50% already registered with the Labour party voted for Corbyn but 84% that paid £3 to vote put their vote for Corbyn? And why is it that they have changed the way that they do it now?

Let's be honest - the reason they have changed the policy is because there has been a groundswell of membership increase in the last 2/3 weeks (100000+ new members IIRC) It would appear that a significant number of those are in support of Corbyn. If they are allowed to vote Eagle's chance of winning goes from slim to fuck all.

Is it really suspicious? Unconventional and not really seen before I agree. At some point people are going to have to consider the possibility that Corbyn actually has managed to engage these new members with his ideas. I don't understand why so many commentators can't take a step back and see this.

 

[Astute]

Let's be honest - the reason they have changed the policy is because there has been a groundswell of membership increase in the last 2/3 weeks (100000+ new members IIRC) It would appear that a significant number of those are in support of Corbyn. If they are allowed to vote Eagle's chance of winning goes from slim to fuck all.

Is it really suspicious? Unconventional and not really seen before I agree. At some point people are going to have to consider the possibility that Corbyn actually has managed to engage these new members with his ideas. I don't understand why so many commentators can't take a step back and see this.

There were people saying about paying just £3 to choose the next Labour leader and they were not Labour supporters.

So you really think that 84% of new joiners only did it because they wanted to support Corbyn as they see him as the right person to take them forward?

For starters I can't remember anyone ever getting 84% in politics before where there is a free vote.

I actually find it funny myself.

 

[Ian1779]

I think the telling sign will be that out of the 84% - how many wanted to vote for Corbyn because it was Corbyn, how many of them still would vote for Corbyn now and how many of them will vote for Labour going forward in GE or local elections.

It would also be interesting to see the demographic of those £3 members.

 

[Astute]

Www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3175453/call-flawed-leadership-race-say-labour-MPs.html