What do you think is the end game ? (17 Viewers)

[Deleted member 5849]

However I'd argue that Mr Fisher is not worth his fee, considering the number of supporters his antics have alienated!

Am still pretty sure those decisions are/were not his, mind you. Then again... we're never likely to know the 'truth' are we?

Where I disagree is that I don't think the investors will tolerate leaving their money in a company that isn't worth the amount invested, unless they can take a regular profit and sell it at or near to the sum invested. There is no real money coming out and their are no real assets except Ryton, a few players who would attract a fee and the league position/goodwill of the club.

Generally we'd be in a pool though, wouldn't we. One of many, to make up the whole.

If they've persuaded individuals and groups specifically to invest in a failing football club, then why the hell can't they be that persuasive when dealing with others elsewhere?!?

 

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[Nick]

You seem to fall on the side of Sisu when there is uncertainty.
Bullshit is when you are lying and throwing it out there.
My opinion is that Sisu are not loosing out from the current situation otherwise what's the point.
You keep fighting their corner but I'm in the other one head held high.

You make statements like they are creaming from the club, I asked what it was. You actually have no idea. If you then turn round and say "well, there is this and that" then you make other people see this and they agree. Rather than shouting it over and over hoping it sticks.

You are on the Wasps side, you can have your head held high but your hypocrisy makes you look a plonker. The same as when you had a go at people for not supporting SISU and you made gifs for them.

People like you and Juggy are dangerous.

 

[oucho]

Classic . we lose a game and the anti-SISU hate flowers on SBT. Next time we win, it'll pipe down again.

 

[italiahorse]

You make statements like they are creaming from the club, I asked what it was.

You said it was bullshit, even though you can't be certain what keeps them here.
I'm giving my opinion but you are just blindly going out your way to put their case.
In my mind that's defending them.
You calling me a plonker can be taken as a compliment. I'm sure TF would say the same.

 

[Captain Dart]

Generally we'd be in a pool though, wouldn't we. One of many, to make up the whole.

If they've persuaded individuals and groups specifically to invest in a failing football club, then why the hell can't they be that persuasive when dealing with others elsewhere?!?

I think these funds are pools of relatively few extremely wealthy investors (a dozen to a score), all of whom know each other.
Brody & Ranson are semi-detached outsiders. The Huntsman family (associated closely with Sepalla & ARVO) are my best guess at who they are.
(Or on 2nd thoughts the Huntsman's were orig. investors & ARVO is Sepalla trying to recover her reputation by showing she can turn round a failed investment).
You can't tell because all the funds are Caymen Islands registered so the beneficial owners are kept secret (ie a vehicle to allow rich people to behave obnoxiously and avoid public reproach).

 

[italiahorse]

Classic . we lose a game and the anti-SISU hate flowers on SBT. Next time we win, it'll pipe down again.

I'll be anti-Sisu until they go. They had their chance and fluffed it big time.
Each to their own I guess.

 

[Nick]

You said it was bullshit, even though you can't be certain what keeps them here.
I'm giving my opinion but you are just blindly going out your way to put their case.
In my mind that's defending them.
You calling me a plonker can be taken as a compliment. I'm sure TF would say the same.

I have never said I know what keeps them here. That wasn't your claim was it? I asked you how they were creaming off the club and you come back with the usual SISU lover shit. Which is ironic as even after years nobody beats you at the start...

I am not going out of my way to put their case, Captain Dart who is far from a SISU lover has said he also doesnt' think they are taking money...

 

[Captain Dart]

I think they're appealing more in hope than expectation now. Winning would be a bonus but whether they ultimately win or lose, I expect them to stay anyway and continue with the core strategy of sitting tight and hope to take advantage of Wasps' failings in order to grab the Ricoh in the future.

I suppose that is a possible long term game. But I can't see Wasps failing badly enough to fold, they are very well run.

Clearly they have to pay back those bonds in a few years, but I'd wager they have a strategy to cover that and if push comes to shove Derek Richardson has a few million to cover it, after all he has a history of propping Wasps up in the short term, wasn't that the situation that prevailed between him buying Wasps and the bonds being sold?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

But I can't see Wasps failing badly enough to fold, they are very well run.

It's a massive risk though. They've played about as fast and loose as SISU, if not more so.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

Slightly off topic, but is there anyway of finding out who bought the bonds?

 

[oucho]

I'll be anti-Sisu until they go. They had their chance and fluffed it big time.
Each to their own I guess.

Me too but I was just pointing out the correlation between results and moaning about SISU.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Sepalla trying to recover her reputation by showing she can turn round a failed investment

Forget anything else, this is why it's dangerous to assume they'll just sell up at some stage and leave. Her reputation is made on playing hard ball, and hard ball doesn't work if people think you just give in and walk away. Sometimes other options can be better in the wider context of what's better for other parties, if not CCFC...

 

[italiahorse]

I have never said I know what keeps them here. That wasn't your claim was it? I asked you how they were creaming off the club and you come back with the usual SISU lover shit. Which is ironic as even after years nobody beats you at the start...
I am not going out of my way to put their case, Captain Dart who is far from a SISU lover has said he also doesnt' think they are taking money...

You never put a case against them you just challenge those that do.
People need to challenge them in everything they say and do, but it's not on here as it's like a Sisu filtering process where a few out shout the many.
Even the trust are blunted by these few and the very people who could unite the fans and offer leadership don't bother raising there head in case it is shot off by these Qwerty fighters.
Sisu are now a cancer for our club and we need to get a common theme going and not be split.

 

[no_loyalty]

It's a massive risk though. They've played about as fast and loose as SISU, if not more so.

True, but it appears Wasps seem to have a game plan

 

[SkyBlueZack]

A few members of the trust, like yourself, blunted themselves by attending Wasps games but complaining bitterly that CCFC had been moved. That's not defending SISU or a SISU filter, it's just fact.

 

[Nick]

You never put a case against them you just challenge those that do.
People need to challenge them in everything they say and do, but it's not on here as it's like a Sisu filtering process where a few out shout the many.
Even the trust are blunted by these few and the very people who could unite the fans and offer leadership don't bother raising there head in case it is shot off by these Qwerty fighters.
Sisu are now a cancer for our club and we need to get a common theme going and not be split.

I agree, they need to be challenged. So if you don't make things up it doesn't dilute things that are actually going on. While you shout about money being taken out, and Juggy makes things up don't you think it will make actual arguments weaker? It is the same as at fans forums when they have people shouting about 20m players and stupid questions, they will just laugh at stuff like that all day wont they?

The way to unite fans is to make things about CCFC.... That is the only time they ever unite.

I just don't understand what you think making up stuff will gain? It isn't challenging them is it?

Who does it damage? It isn't SISU, it is the club when fans refuse to go because they think Seppalla is out shopping with the James Maddison money. Who does Juggy's stuff damage? Certainly not SISU, again it is the club and Mowbray.

Do you not think if a fan on a fans forum asking for proof or more information on your statements stumps you, how do you think it is challenging SISU?

 

[oldskyblue58]

What keeps SISU here ? I am not sure I could say with any degree of confidence. Do they have an end game for CCFC or is it wrapped up in the off field activities

the very remote chance of recovering some of the money via the success of the club? Promotion wont guarantee that given the sums of money required to compete in the Championship.
the possibility of paying some of the loans down from player sales should the club actually become cash flow positive (it hasn't yet up to 2015) ? player development currently at risk
stubbornness and not willing to give in? ( a woman scorned etc)
lack of any idea as to how to get out of the mess they are in? cant help thinking there is some truth in this
the legal cases? think that could be more about establishing a legal principle rather than CCFC though. It could also not be costing them too much if using third party litigation funding

What I do not think it is, is a love of things Sky Blue. Not sure there is really any football ambition from the owner, its more damage limitation on a bad investment. As such then it is hard to see anything better than stagnation.

So long as they balance the books, at least, then no further harm is caused to investors fortunes. In which case we could be stuck with them for some time. That said I would think that recent events and consequences will be testing the Seppala resolve and that could be very dangerous

Current state of play is more of the same I would think and no obvious end game

 

[Deleted member 5849]

That said I would think that recent events and consequences will be testing the Seppala resolve and that could be very dangerous

(My emphasis)

Seems to often get lost amongst all this... the consequences of attempting to force regime change could be very destructive indeed for CCFC.

Worthwhile? Everyone would have a different view on that. There's certainly a logic that if it were to be done, 'tis best it were done quickly...

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

It's uncomfortable to think that these people are still our owners, when it doesn't really make sense what they are doing, or plan to do.

If they would sell the club it would have to either be to the Wasps so then we'd get revenue off the stadium too, or a new owner that would be prepared to build their own stadium (within the close city of Coventry). That's the only way the club could move forward.

As they don't seem to be overly keen to sell, it just loops back to the OP. What the hell do they actually plan on doing?

 

[italiahorse]

A few members of the trust, like yourself, blunted themselves by attending Wasps games but complaining bitterly that CCFC had been moved. That's not defending SISU or a SISU filter, it's just fact.

Everybody complained when CCFC was moved.
Only a few are prioritising attending Wasps matches as a concern in the greater scheme of things.
I guess it is easier to target these people than Sisu, but ultimately it just lets them off the hook.

 

[italiahorse]

I agree, they need to be challenged. So if you don't make things up it doesn't dilute things that are actually going on. While you shout about money being taken out, and Juggy makes things up don't you think it will make actual arguments weaker? It is the same as at fans forums when they have people shouting about 20m players and stupid questions, they will just laugh at stuff like that all day wont they?

The way to unite fans is to make things about CCFC.... That is the only time they ever unite.

I just don't understand what you think making up stuff will gain? It isn't challenging them is it?

Who does it damage? It isn't SISU, it is the club when fans refuse to go because they think Seppalla is out shopping with the James Maddison money. Who does Juggy's stuff damage? Certainly not SISU, again it is the club and Mowbray.

Do you not think if a fan on a fans forum asking for proof or more information on your statements stumps you, how do you think it is challenging SISU?

I think you are saying, in all but words, is we should just watch the football and don't question the money we are putting in for season tickets etc.
Unfortunately every day a few more people just give up supporting financially.
Close the forum down if you want proof not opinions.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

True, but it appears Wasps seem to have a game plan

SISU have always had a game plan, it just hasn't come off.

And the consequence of selling your soul to an investment fund is what happens when it doesn't come off. Wasps will find that out too... if their plan doesn't come off.

 

[Nick]

I think you are saying, in all but words, is we should just watch the football and don't question the money we are putting in for season tickets etc.
Unfortunately every day a few more people just give up supporting financially.
Close the forum down if you want proof not opinions.

So if it is your opinion, why not explain why you think that after going on and on about it rather than calling people SISU lovers for questioning you? What makes you get to that conclusion? Have you seen things in the accounts, heard things? Read things that make you think it?

What I am saying is, don't make stuff up I know it must sound good in Anti SISU circles and get everybody all angry and worked up.

I often have opinions, I am also often wrong and I am happy to be corrected

 

[JimmyHillsbeard]

A lot of people have said over the years what are Sisu trying to achieve ? Nobody definitely knows. My opinion , is they are happy to keep taking board room level salaries out of the club , and use the club books for other reasons beyond a normal person to understand other than an accountant. I think the end is near , soon no academy ? and very soon nowhere for home fixtures . To me it looks like administration and Sisu walk away .

Thanks for the interpretation from beyond a normal person ;-)

Seriously for a second, having put us through administration twice since SISU arrived what would they benefit from by doing so a third time?

 

[Ian1779]

A few members of the trust, like yourself, blunted themselves by attending Wasps games but complaining bitterly that CCFC had been moved. That's not defending SISU or a SISU filter, it's just fact.

Completely destroying their own and the Trust's credibility in the process.

 

[Ian1779]

Thanks for the interpretation from beyond a normal person ;-)

Seriously for a second, having put us through administration twice since SISU arrived what would they benefit from by doing so a third time?

Twice?

 

[JimmyHillsbeard]

Completely destroying their own and the Trust's credibility in the process.

I'm afraid LateKickOffGate - when four leading Trust members called for the club to go into Admin in the hope that it would get rid of the owners without any real plan of how to achieve it - already achieved that feat in my book.

And on your other point of course you're right it was only once - schoolboy error sorry. But we were in it so long we were punished twice for it.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I'm afraid LateKickOffGate - when four leading Trust members called for the club to go into Admin in the hope that it would get rid of the owners without any real plan of how to achieve it - already achieved that feat in my book.

That was indeed poor.

However, much as the club needs to move on from Northampton and everything, I also think we need to maybe accept mistakes were made by a Trust board not expecting this, unable (incapable?) of knowing how to react, and maybe thrown into a bit of naive panic.

But maybe we need to get behind a trust in the sense that we're stronger together, accept the mistakes were made, and hope they've been learned from.

 

[Nick]

I'm afraid LateKickOffGate - when four leading Trust members called for the club to go into Admin in the hope that it would get rid of the owners without any real plan of how to achieve it - already achieved that feat in my book.

And on your other point of course you're right it was only once - schoolboy error sorry. But we were in it so long we were punished twice for it.

Completely forgot about Late Kick Off.

Another example why people should be able to ask questions!

"We need to go into admin to get rid of SISU!"
"How will that work? What will happen?"
"Stop defending SISU all the time, they are taking all the money from this club. Do you not want to get rid of them?"
"Of course, but I just want to know how it will work when we go into admin. What is the process and why will it force them to go?"
"So you think SISU are great owners then?"

That is the conversations that happen over and over again. Nobody ever says "This is exactly why".

Whilst it was a long time ago, I do think that people like the Trust do need to listen to a range of people who have different views as it could cut things like that out.

 

[Ian1779]

That was indeed poor.

However, much as the club needs to move on from Northampton and everything, I also think we need to maybe accept mistakes were made by a Trust board not expecting this, unable (incapable?) of knowing how to react, and maybe thrown into a bit of naive panic.

But maybe we need to get behind a trust in the sense that we're stronger together, accept the mistakes were made, and hope they've been learned from.

For me they need to come out and condemn Wasps presence in our city. Even if it's 'perceived' as too late it needs to be done.

When they do that unequivocally then they'll get my support.

 

[chiefdave]

That is the conversations that happen over and over again. Nobody ever says "This is exactly why".

While I'm not a fan of doing things via the media if there is someone waiting in the wings to take over the best thing they can do is make it known publically. Tell us how they will sort things out and how they will fund it.

If that happened I'm sure you'd unite the vast majority of the fanbase behind them in putting pressure on SISU to go.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

While I'm not a fan of doing things via the media if there is someone waiting in the wings to take over the best thing they can do is make it known publically. Tell us how they will sort things out and how they will fund it.

If that happened I'm sure you'd unite the vast majority of the fanbase behind them in putting pressure on SISU to go.

Hmm. Like when that happened with Haskell?

 

[chiefdave]

Hmm. Like when that happened with Haskell?

Not really, that was all whispers and people claiming to know more than others. The same as I'd like SISU to come out with a clear plan that stacks up if there's any potential new owner get them to put their plan out there.

 

[Otis]

Classic . we lose a game and the anti-SISU hate flowers on SBT. Next time we win, it'll pipe down again.

What if we don't?

 

[Grendel]

So they are not offsetting their losses ?
They must be daft.

It's not their losses though is it?