What do you think is the end game ? (14 Viewers)

skybluedan

Well-Known Member
We're at turd polishing stage![/QUOTE]


Ain't anyone ever told you mate you cant polish a turd , just a roll round in some glitter at best
 

SkyBlueZack

Well-Known Member
Yes, It's all the council fault.
Should have illegally subsidised the poor management of the club and then put the icing on the cake by giving the stadium to Sisu as a gift.
Critise Sisu ............. if you dare.

No it's not all the councils fault. Not sure he said it was though.

No they shouldn't have illegally subsidised poor management of the club. Not sure he said that either.

No the stadium shouldn't have been gifted to sisu. But yes it should have been gifted to the football club who had been here since 1883. We propped it up for 10 years. We made it possible. When I say we I mean the club and fans not the owners.

Stop making shit up italia. It's boring. Your arguments have zero credence because of your hypocrisy and making shit up. Give it a rest.
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
Is this your new 'race to the bottom'?

No, its getting Sisu to show us the plan and if they have not got one to give someone else a chance.
Race to the bottom means trying to bring Wasps down to our level rather than trying to bring us up to their level..
 

SkyBlueZack

Well-Known Member
Your brown nosing of wasps is disgusting. Their level? Mortgaging the stadium? Permanent relocation 90 miles away? Using other people's money and not their own? Muscling in on another cities sporting clubs? Bullshitting the fans so the owners get what they want? That last one sounds familiar. Which one italia? Your hypocrisy knows no bounds. You're as much vermin as sisu, council, wasps and higgs.
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
No it's not all the councils fault. Not sure he said it was though.

No they shouldn't have illegally subsidised poor management of the club. Not sure he said that either.

No the stadium shouldn't have been gifted to sisu. But yes it should have been gifted to the football club who had been here since 1883. We propped it up for 10 years. We made it possible. When I say we I mean the club and fans not the owners.

Stop making shit up italia. It's boring. Your arguments have zero credence because of your hypocrisy and making shit up. Give it a rest.

Grendel never said it's the councils fault,......... really ?
So the council that stepped in and ensured the stadium was built when we sold our old ground and couldn't afford to build the new stadium should then have given it to the club?
So the club who couldn't afford to run it from division 1 and were running with substantial losses should be given the stadium?
Wasn't the original rent the same as for Highfield Road and didn't the club forgo a reduced rent should they be relegated to league 1?
Sometimes you need to sit back and understand how we got here.
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
Your brown nosing of wasps is disgusting. Their level? Mortgaging the stadium? Permanent relocation 90 miles away? Using other people's money and not their own? Muscling in on another cities sporting clubs? Bullshitting the fans so the owners get what they want? That last one sounds familiar. Which one italia? Your hypocrisy knows no bounds. You're as much vermin as sisu, council, wasps and higgs.

I just go and watch. Get over it.
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member

SkyBlueZack

Well-Known Member
The council stepped in and wrestled all control from the club. Why did they do this? Ever asked that. The project wouldn't have existed without the club. The ricoh wouldn't have stayed open without the club. Or as we now know a London rugby club. When we had propped it up for 10 years and were the reason behind the project, shouldn't we be given it? Couldn't afford to run it? Is this a we believe what fisher said moment? Aeg were going to run it. As one of the biggest arena operators in the world I imagine they would have been ok. Substantial losses? A bit like those at the London rugby club it was sold to? Yeah they did forgo that and as I pointed out earlier in the thread due to previous owners chasing a quick buck rather than seeing the bigger picture. Sit back and understand how we got here? Through various different parties. Current owners. Previous owners. Council's. Charities. Not just sisu. Maybe you should try sitting back and understanding how we got here.
 

SkyBlueZack

Well-Known Member
I just go and watch. Get over it.

No you don't. You come on here banging their drum for them. Telling everyone how great they are and how we should be at their level. How taking over the stadium and academy is all part of their masterplan to distress sisu and rid the club of them. Making up shit about money being taken out of the club. When in fact wasps issued the bonds and Richardson promptly took his money back out. Aspire to be at their level? Not in a million years!
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
So you don't want them to sell the club you want them to put is into administration and get another points deduction. At best meaning we have little chance of promotion, at worst condemning us to relegation.

To all intents and purposes we've already been through administration twice. The process KMPG ran was administration in all but name and we ended up with SISU being the only ones prepare to buy the club. Then ACL forced administration in a weird attempt to force an ownership change and we ended up with SISU again!

But the question still stands, why would anyone who isn't a fan buy a debt ridden CCFC (even if the debt is lower via a SISU write off or administration) with no ground, nowhere to play after next season and no academy? There's can't be a single club in the country that isn't a better option than buying us.

You can't run a business and just ignore a large debt, then you would be running a charity wouldn't you.
 

Bruce the Boot

Well-Known Member
The council stepped in and wrestled all control from the club. Why did they do this? Ever asked that. The project wouldn't have existed without the club. The ricoh wouldn't have stayed open without the club. Or as we now know a London rugby club. When we had propped it up for 10 years and were the reason behind the project, shouldn't we be given it? Couldn't afford to run it? Is this a we believe what fisher said moment? Aeg were going to run it. As one of the biggest arena operators in the world I imagine they would have been ok. Substantial losses? A bit like those at the London rugby club it was sold to? Yeah they did forgo that and as I pointed out earlier in the thread due to previous owners chasing a quick buck rather than seeing the bigger picture. Sit back and understand how we got here? Through various different parties. Current owners. Previous owners. Council's. Charities. Not just sisu. Maybe you should try sitting back and understanding how we got here.


The past is the past , The future is in Sisu s hand , all we want is for them to show there hand to the fans . The fact they wont cant is because they have nt got a plan ? And with their past history so far the future looks bleak . They own us , its their mess , upto them to sort it out !!!
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
So the council that stepped in and ensured the stadium was built when we sold our old ground and couldn't afford to build the new stadium should then have given it to the club?
They could have supported the club in improving and extending HR negating the need to move. They could have given the club a loan to exercise the buy back clause on HR. They could have purchased HR and leased it back to the club at a peppercorn rent. They could have stuck to the original agreement and split the freehold 50/50 with the club. They could have given the club a reasonable rent with revenue access. They could have worked with one of the six non-SISU potential owners to ensure the ground and club were united. They could have sold ACL to the club at a reasonable rate rather than offering them matchday revenues for £34m. They could have retained ownership of ACL until SISU are gone and sold it to the club then, making the club a more attractive prospect for a takeover.
So the club who couldn't afford to run it from division 1 and were running with substantial losses should be given the stadium?
Can you explain how the club couldn't afford to run it, makes no sense unless you are saying it incurs losses. Also maybe you could explain how Wasps, with substantial losses, can take the stadium on but not the football club it was built for.
Wasn't the original rent the same as for Highfield Road and didn't the club forgo a reduced rent should they be relegated to league 1?
No, this was PWKH spin. The rent at the Ricoh is the same as the total the club paid in their final season at HR. What he failed to mention is that by that point the club was paying a huge penalty to the new owners for delays in moving out. And of course we weren't exactly the picture of financial health at that point.[/QUOTE]
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
So you don't want them to sell the club you want them to put is into administration and get another points deduction. At best meaning we have little chance of promotion, at worst condemning us to relegation.

This can't go on. We have little chance of promotion and relegation is a serious possibility eventually.
It's death by a thousand cuts with these idiots.
I'd take the hit now but realise it will need to be forced from Sisu and after the JR is finished.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
You can't run a business and just ignore a large debt, then you would be running a charity wouldn't you.
Wasn't exactly a large debt though was it. We were still paying matchday costs so ACL weren't losing out by having us playing there (and of course they were still getting the other revenue streams on matchday) and ACL were drawing down out of escrow as well as claiming off the guarantors.
Lets not kid ourselves it was a business decision, they were trying to force a change of ownership.
 

Nick

Administrator
Wasn't exactly a large debt though was it. We were still paying matchday costs so ACL weren't losing out by having us playing there (and of course they were still getting the other revenue streams on matchday) and ACL were drawing down out of escrow as well as claiming off the guarantors.
Lets not kid ourselves it was a business decision, they were trying to force a change of ownership.
Wasn't it them or the council who put a bid in?
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
Wasn't exactly a large debt though was it. We were still paying matchday costs so ACL weren't losing out by having us playing there (and of course they were still getting the other revenue streams on matchday) and ACL were drawing down out of escrow as well as claiming off the guarantors.
Lets not kid ourselves it was a business decision, they were trying to force a change of ownership.

The very idea £1.3M isn't a large debt is daft. Ask OSB.
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
ACL certainly registered an interest, can't recall now if they actually placed a bid or not.

Don't think so, it was believed to be some sort of fishing expedition to see what details a potential buyer would be given.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
The very idea £1.3M isn't a large debt is daft. Ask OSB.
Except it wasn't really £1.3m was it. They drew down £530K from the escrow account and had Robinson and McGinnity (?) as guarantors in the event of unpaid rent. Forcing administration broke the lease so they weren't owned more after that.
 

will am i

Active Member
So given there are so many other clubs in the country who would purchase an in-debt Coventry City with no ground, nowhere to play home games after next season and no academy after this season for a £1?
perhaps they would know how to run a business negotiate deals develop relationships with other organisations and have a plan which goes beyond turning us into an organisation which pisses everyone off and is unable to compete financially with burton and rotherham. Maybe there is opportunity to improve.
 

Nick

Administrator
perhaps they would know how to run a business negotiate deals develop relationships with other organisations and have a plan which goes beyond turning us into an organisation which pisses everyone off and is unable to compete financially with burton and rotherham. Maybe there is opportunity to improve.
Unable to compete with teams in the league above? Burton had a smaller budget I think when they went up.

If they were so good at negotiation, they would just buy another club. I doubt anybody splashing out on a football club would want to play in a wasps stadium and a wasps academy.
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
Except it wasn't really £1.3m was it. They drew down £530K from the escrow account and had Robinson and McGinnity (?) as guarantors in the event of unpaid rent. Forcing administration broke the lease so they weren't owned more after that.

But that money wasn't released till the admin, so SISU benefited because they did not have to pay the full amount.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Grendel never said it's the councils fault,......... really ?
So the council that stepped in and ensured the stadium was built when we sold our old ground and couldn't afford to build the new stadium should then have given it to the club?
So the club who couldn't afford to run it from division 1 and were running with substantial losses should be given the stadium?
Wasn't the original rent the same as for Highfield Road and didn't the club forgo a reduced rent should they be relegated to league 1?
Sometimes you need to sit back and understand how we got here.

We didn't pay rent at Highfield road. It was a lease back arrangement. Stop peddling out shite that PWKH stated.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
But that money wasn't released till the admin, so SISU benefited because they did not have to pay the full amount.

Sisu still paid more in rent than dear old wasps did to buy the whole lot and on a 6 fold increase in the lease period.
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
Sisu still paid more in rent than dear old wasps did to buy the whole lot and on a 6 fold increase in the lease period.
Yeah, what crap business people, I sure wouldn't like them to run anything I'm involved in.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Yeah, what crap business people, I sure wouldn't like them to run anything I'm involved in.

Still as long as the council did ok your happy council dart.
 

Hobo

Well-Known Member
Unable to compete with teams in the league above? Burton had a smaller budget I think when they went up.

If they were so good at negotiation, they would just buy another club. I doubt anybody splashing out on a football club would want to play in a wasps stadium and a wasps academy.

Burton had at least 5 years of momentum behind them. It wasn't a one season wonder Nick. SISU need to learn that leadership needs to be shown from the top. With the right leadership and blue print, yes great things can be achieved. But you can't build a reputation by continually half baking the cake.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
perhaps they would know how to run a business negotiate deals develop relationships with other organisations and have a plan which goes beyond turning us into an organisation which pisses everyone off and is unable to compete financially with burton and rotherham. Maybe there is opportunity to improve.
Even if they were the worlds best negotiators they'd be starting from a position far worse than if they took over any other club in the country so again why would anyone other than a fan buy us?
 

singers_pore

Well-Known Member
There are claims on here that the club's accounts show that SISU have not taken any money out of CCFC. That is simply not true. And before anyone asks, yes, I am an accountant (ex-KPMG) as well as being a professor in a business school.

While it is incorrect to conclude from the accounts that SISU have not taken any money out of CCFC, it is equally the case that the accounts do not show that SISU have taken money out of CCFC. In other words, it could be that SISU have taken money out, but the accounts are simply not shown at a level of granularity that would prove it to be the case (or not). In short, we simply don't know.

To clarify my point in relation to previous comments by OSB and others, the accounts show that SISU have not received any dividend (in fact such a dividend would be illegal) or interest payments from the club. However, the absence of a dividend or interest payment does not necessarily imply, in and of itself, that SISU have not taken any cash out of the business. There are many ways for an owner to take cash out of the business other than through a dividend or interest payment. Moreover, those other ways wouldn't have to show up as a separate line item in the published accounts.

For example, consider the 2014 accounts which show that the club's direct operating costs were 1.1m. According to note 4 of the accounts, the 1.1m charge covers "match expenses and the direct costs relating to commercial activities". In the same year, the club reported "administrative expenses" of 4.1m. What were these admin expenses? Certainly they are not salaries because salaries are reported as a separate line item with an amount of 5.3m.

I am not saying necessarily that any of the 4.1m in "admin expenses" represent "management charges" or other types of expenses paid to SISU. On the other hand, neither am I ruling that out as a possibility. We simply DO NOT KNOW for sure because the accounts do not provide a sufficient level of detail for us to say one way or another what these numbers actually represent.

That's not to say that the accounts are materially misstated or in violation of financial reporting standards. Rather, we do not have enough detail from the published accounts about all the club's transactions in order for us to draw any firm conclusions.

For example, it was previously alleged (*) that under the club's previous ownership (Richardson and Robinson) the club had overstated its expenses paid to former players for the services they provided in entertaining corporate clients on a match day. Because the accounts are shown at a highly aggregated level, there would have been no way for me, OSB or anyone else to ascertain that from the published accounts.

* This allegation appeared on a now defunct fans forum. I am not saying that the allegation is necessarily true; rather I am using it for illustrative purposes.
 

singers_pore

Well-Known Member
We have so far had three "explanations" from the club as to what has happened to the Maddison money:

1. According to CA's statement at the time of JM's sale, the money will be used to build the club's infrastructure.
2. Later it was stated - mainly by Nick and others on this forum - that, according to the club, the Maddison money was being used to repay a loan that SISU had made to the club in the previous year.
3. Most recently, MV has said that, in fact, none of the Maddison money was paid to SISU.

A generous interpretation of the above is that the club's communications lack clarity and cause confusion.
A harsher interpretation is that the club's representatives have not been entirely honest with the fans.
 

singers_pore

Well-Known Member
To go back to the OP, I believe that SISU are hanging around for two reasons:
1. It's not costing them anything as long as the club can pay its own way.
2. Wasps will likely encounter significant financial difficulties when the bond becomes due for repayment as they are still making huge losses.
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
To go back to the OP, I believe that SISU are hanging around for two reasons:
1. It's not costing them anything as long as the club can pay its own way.
2. Wasps will likely encounter significant financial difficulties when the bond becomes due for repayment as they are still making huge losses.

1. But they put money in last year did they not.. so there has been a shortfall till recently.
2. That means at least 6 more years, Maturity Date 13 May 2022.:bag:

I agree there may be some cash coming out buried in figures but won't it be more in the form of perks, like medical insurance, entertainment, travel & posh hotels.

As for inconsistent statements coming from SISU, ironically that is the only thing they are consistent at.
 
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