Council helps football club (16 Viewers)

[Brylowes]

I just don't get the logic the rent was their fault (I agree, they could have tried more or at least made it more public they need it lower and sooner). Surely if the rent is off putting for buyers, as was the council because of the Ricoh stuff then what happens then?
ONE OF THE MAJOR THINGS THAT ANNOY ME ABOUT SISU is their ability to communicate with fans. If they opened their mouthes at the right time they could have done the same things but had a lot more fans onside.

Look how it has worked for the council and Wasps.

REALLY!! That says a lot Nick.

 

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[Nick]

REALLY!! That says a lot Nick.

What does it say?

 

[Brylowes]

What does it say?

All the things they've done , and one of the major problems for you is their inability
To make the most of PR.
It also tells me you don't give people much credit to be able to look at the situation
And form an opinion on their own.

 

[Nick]

All the things they've done , and one of the major problems for you is their inability
To make the most of PR.
It also tells me you don't give people much credit to be able to look at the situation
And form an opinion on their own.

I've seen how it's worked for wasps and the council.

No, I don't give a lot of people credit. I've seen the pr first hand make somebody who was protesting about a move, cosying up to afc Wimbledon, anti franchising come on here justifying wasps moving here and preaching about it.

I did actually say communication, that means transparency, honesty and better pr. Better communication also means better customer service.

When you can see their pr in action, and how people fall for it so much then of course it would have made a difference.

There are city fans coming on a city forum justifying wasps, justifying high rents, justifying the councils behaviour. There are fans actually happy that the club gets screwed over and think that people like pwkh are heroes.

You are totally ignoring the stuff about before sisu coming here, the high rent is all sisus fault.

So no, I don't really give some people credit when I can see just how much the pr actually works right in front of me.

How would the wasps stuff have gone down if we were fan owned for example? What about if the trust took us over but we still got charged stupid rent?

 

[Brylowes]

I've seen how it's worked for wasps and the council.

No, I don't give a lot of people credit. I've seen the pr first hand make somebody who was protesting about a move, cosying up to afc Wimbledon, anti franchising come on here justifying wasps moving here and preaching about it.

I did actually say communication, that means transparency, honesty and better pr. Better communication also means better customer service.

When you can see their pr in action, and how people fall for it so much then of course it would have made a difference.

But what could PR do to enhance anything they've done whilst running CCFC, Nick you
Come across as a very intelligent person and an extremely passionate supporter, what
Have they done that you think they have done well or successfully in their time here.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

I've seen how it's worked for wasps and the council.

No, I don't give a lot of people credit. I've seen the pr first hand make somebody who was protesting about a move, cosying up to afc Wimbledon, anti franchising come on here justifying wasps moving here and preaching about it.

I did actually say communication, that means transparency, honesty and better pr. Better communication also means better customer service.

When you can see their pr in action, and how people fall for it so much then of course it would have made a difference.

There are city fans coming on a city forum justifying wasps, justifying high rents, justifying the councils behaviour. There are fans actually happy that the club gets screwed over and think that people like pwkh are heroes.

You are totally ignoring the stuff about before sisu coming here, the high rent is all sisus fault.

So no, I don't really give some people credit when I can see just how much the pr actually works right in front of me.

FFS do you actually believe the shite you preach.
Another one with Grendel who thinks he is the only one that understands it all and the other 99% are stupid.

 

[Nick]

But what could PR do to enhance anything they've done whilst running CCFC, Nick you
Come across as a very intelligent person and an extremely passionate supporter, what
Have they done that you think they have done well or successfully in their time here.

I didn't say done well, I said communication.

Wasps managed to move a club 90 miles and have the same people who had been protesting about moving clubs a couple of months earlier backing them...

Acl, wasps and the council play the city fans like a fiddle.

Sisu could have come in and been more transparent from the start, their pr has been dog shit.

A good example is players being sold, Venus has already said the money hasn't left the club. It gets hidden away in the scg minutes, not many people see that.

I'd have made sure people knew that.

Like the academy. Pitch thing the other day, Richard Stevens just disproved it straight away.

I'm far from very intelligent, I maybe just take a step back and try and analyse things, maybe a bit too much sometimes. For example how when loads of random people sign up, posters who haven't posted for months come back and it's all anti sisu it looks a bit dodgy. Then the next couple of days the news about wasps and the academy comes out.

All people have to do is start a rumour, people get angry and it distracts.

Due to sisus awful communication, they could be trying and being totally honest but nobody believes them.

 

[Nick]

FFS do you actually believe the shite you preach.
Another one with Grendel who thinks he is the only one that understands it all and the other 99% are stupid.

Ok, sisu have great communication and I didn't see Jan in the telegraph saying how great wasps were, in the same breath having a go at any city fan who would have gone to watch us play at Bermuda.

That's just one example.

Problem is too many people wanting to be the insider, then they get a whisper and get played.

It must be worthwhile playing the fans, as acl wouldn't have started so many rumours off to get the sisu hate going.

If the pr isn't so obvious, how did I point out something bad was going to come out just before the academy stuff broke? I have no sources, I didn't know what, just that it was going to bad for the club bit from the "other side". Then random.People signed up especially to try and discredit me They haven't logged in since.

All it takes is a rumour to be planted and there's a sisu protest and outrage, it's so easy.

 

[Brylowes]

I didn't say done well, I said communication.

Wasps managed to move a club 90 miles and have the same people who had been protesting about moving clubs a couple of months earlier backing them...

Acl, wasps and the council play the city fans like a fiddle.

Sisu could have come in and been more transparent from the start, their pr has been dog shit.

A good example is players being sold, Venus has already said the money hasn't left the club. It gets hidden away in the scg minutes, not many people see that.

I'd have made sure people knew that.

Like the academy. Pitch thing the other day, Richard Stevens just disproved it straight away.

I'm far from very intelligent, I maybe just take a step back and try and analyse things, maybe a bit too much sometimes. For example how when loads of random people sign up, posters who haven't posted for months come back and it's all anti sisu it looks a bit dodgy. Then the next couple of days the news about wasps and the academy comes out.

All people have to do is start a rumour, people get angry and it distracts.

Due to sisus awful communication, they could be trying and being totally honest but nobody believes them.

But I don't think City fans care about Wasps, I know I don't, that's for their fans to worry about,
Be honest if they'd moved 90 miles to Plymouth or Norwich you wouldn't have batted an
Eyelid would you.

 

[Nick]

But I don't think City fans care about Wasps, I know I don't, that's for their fans to worry about,
Be honest if they'd moved 90 miles to Plymouth or Norwich you wouldn't have batted an
Eyelid would you.

Usually I would agree, but the fact we had just been moved kind of makes it even stranger that the fans most against that seemed to be the ones justifying them moving.

 

[Astute]

Exactly, people moan about what would happen if sisu owned the ricoh. Yet wasps actually did it and it's great business.

Yes well trodden ground.

When all this crap was going on I said that I didn't want SISU to get the arena as I thought that they would raise money from the lease. Some of the abuse I got was amazing Oh yes it couldn't happen either as there was no value to it. The words white elephant even got used by some. Then someone else comes along, negotiates and gets the arena. They then load debt onto the arena.

Take off your Sky Blue goggles. Who did the great business? Was it SISU or Wasps?

Still all a bunch of cunts though.

 

[Astute]

We were 30 minutes or something from going until sisu concluded the deal. short memories.

We were not 30 minutes away from folding. We were 30 minutes away from administration and most probably relegation.

Would you like to remind us what has happened since SISU took over regarding administration and relegation?

 

[Astute]

we all have differing points of view but arguing one hedge fund is better than another is a bit naive in my opinion. We'd be much better off without either of them.

Yes we would be better off without either of them. But if it had to be one of them I wouldn't choose SISU. They are nothing but talk and court action. Whereas the bloke in charge of Wasps had already put over 20m of his own money into the club. They play in the top division. They bring in good players.

 

[Astute]

Why are sisu here at all do you think?

Sisu are here because the club was destined for bankruptcy thanks to CCC.

So our club was seriously in debt...30m and upwards...and rising by £500,000 a month because of CCC?

You wouldn't see the truth even if it bit you on the arse.

 

[italiahorse]

We were not 30 minutes away from folding. We were 30 minutes away from administration and most probably relegation.

Would you like to remind us what has happened since SISU took over regarding administration and relegation?

At the time administration seemed the worst thing in the world and most, including myself, thought Sisu had saved us. Looking back it was a mistake and the position we are in is unretrievable. Sisu are to blame and unfortunately nobody will work with them so further decline can be expected while they are here. They can't see it so continue to fight all those that can help us.
To sum up. We are fucked.

 

[italiahorse]

Sisu are here because the club was destined for bankruptcy thanks to CCC.

You and Sisu are as stupid as each other if you believe this.

 

[Nick]

You and Sisu are as stupid as each other if you believe this.

But you said they saved us?

 

[Grendel]

You and Sisu are as stupid as each other if you believe this.

The thread is about councils who support football clubs and see them as community assets. Ours never have.

The initial set up for the football club was destined for disaster. It's wage bill at the time was not excessive by championship standards - yet the break even was 22,000 paying adults. So either the club became uncompetitive or it went bust.

The club tried to re negotiate but this was flatly refused.

The clubs only purpose was to fund the vanity project known as ACL. Without this it would have had no value at all to this council that viewed the club as a cash cow.

Consider that compared to councils like Nottingham who all but wiped out a loan which was higher than the total sale price of ACL to a franchise from London.

Given the unique position of the club at the time there is little doubt if it had gone into administration in 2007 it would have ceased to exist. The council were not interest in buyers who wanted ACL - they flatly refused to consider any lease extensions to potential purchasers and had a view that the club was a barrier to their vanity project so couldn't care if they were there anyway. That's the rub. The council wanted sisu as tenants and without them we'd probably have folded.

We now have a council who will very happily see the club fold. It's got two new vanity projects. It's new chums wasps who will always take preference for them as they took the vanity project off them (for less than some councils active support of the football club) when they realised it was crumbling around them. Then they have a swimming pool which will cost over £20 million - much of which will be rate payers money - and will, by their own admission lose money.

The council never valued the football club and never will. If they did sisu wouldn't be here and ACL would have been set in a way the Swansea model was in the first place.

Someone will try and claim some nonsense now about the Swansea model being investigated by the EU. That would show something about such posters mentality and as it's 3 years ago I think we can conclude even that argument has gone away.

 

[Brylowes]

But you said they saved us?

From administration, he's right at the time that seemed like the worst thing in the world, but
In hindsight if handled properly it could have given us a fresh start and set us up for the
Future.

 

[Nick]

From administration, he's right at the time that seemed like the worst thing in the world, but
In hindsight if handled properly it could have given us a fresh start and set us up for the
Future.

If handled properly by who?

I agree, it could have been sold as a package with the ricoh. Fresh start.

 

[Grendel]

From administration, he's right at the time that seemed like the worst thing in the world, but
In hindsight if handled properly it could have given us a fresh start and set us up for the
Future.

How if the council decided who was suitable owners and who weren't - and decided sisu were?

 

[italiahorse]

But you said they saved us?

Not from CCC as you confusingly believed.

 

[Brylowes]

If handled properly by who?

I agree, it could have been sold as a package with the ricoh. Fresh start.

By an administrator with the best interests of the club in mind, unlike the dodgy fucker SISU
Bought in to administer with their interests in mind.

 

[Grendel]

By an administrator with the best interests of the club in mind, unlike the dodgy fucker SISU
Bought in to administer with their interests in mind.

The council had a big say on a future owner in 2007. Why do you keep ignoring this basic fact?

 

[italiahorse]

The thread is about councils who support football clubs and see them as community assets. Ours never have.

The initial set up for the football club was destined for disaster. It's wage bill at the time was not excessive by championship standards - yet the break even was 22,000 paying adults. So either the club became uncompetitive or it went bust.

The fault of the club not the council

The club tried to re negotiate but this was flatly refused.

The rent was only a small proportion of the outgoing. The rent should have been renegotiated when Sisu carried out due dilegence.

The clubs only purpose was to fund the vanity project known as ACL. Without this it would have had no value at all to this council that viewed the club as a cash cow.

The club had an option on the land but didn't take it up. Hence the council got involved.

Consider that compared to councils like Nottingham who all but wiped out a loan which was higher than the total sale price of ACL to a franchise from London.

Sisu had the option on ACL from day one. I'm sure if Sisu hadn't played hard ball in time the council would have sone similar. It's a very fine line as Swansea found out on what's legal.

Given the unique position of the club at the time there is little doubt if it had gone into administration in 2007 it would have ceased to exist. The council were not interest in buyers who wanted ACL - they flatly refused to consider any lease extensions to potential purchasers and had a view that the club was a barrier to their vanity project so couldn't care if they were there anyway. That's the rub. The council wanted sisu as tenants and without them we'd probably have folded.

Probably ?

We now have a council who will very happily see the club fold. It's got two new vanity projects. It's new chums wasps who will always take preference for them as they took the vanity project off them (for less than some councils active support of the football club) when they realised it was crumbling around them. Then they have a swimming pool which will cost over £20 million - much of which will be rate payers money - and will, by their own admission lose money.

The club will not fold unless Sisu fail to improve relationships with all concerned.
As Ive said Sisu are playing into Wasps hands who will pick it up when it does fold.

The council never valued the football club and never will. If they did sisu wouldn't be here and ACL would have been set in a way the Swansea model was in the first place.

They value it but not while Sisu have the in a futile court battle.

Someone will try and claim some nonsense now about the Swansea model being investigated by the EU. That would show something about such posters mentality and as it's 3 years ago I think we can conclude even that argument has gone away.

But still very relevant that's why you dismiss it.

 

[italiahorse]

From administration, he's right at the time that seemed like the worst thing in the world, but
In hindsight if handled properly it could have given us a fresh start and set us up for the
Future.

I would go as far as to say, now, that Sisu new the fragility of the situation and always planned a hostile takeover of the Ricoh. The fact that the club was the main tenant and didn't own the stadium could be used to lever their demands if they threatened to leave.

 

[Grendel]

I would go as far as to say, now, that Sisu new the fragility of the situation and always planned a hostile takeover of the Ricoh. The fact that the club was the main tenant and didn't own the stadium could be used to lever their demands if they threatened to leave.

Preferred bidder

 

[chiefdave]

From administration, he's right at the time that seemed like the worst thing in the world, but in hindsight if handled properly it could have given us a fresh start and set us up for the future.

By an administrator with the best interests of the club in mind, unlike the dodgy fucker SISU bought in to administer with their interests in mind.

You're missing a key point here. While we didn't go into administration at the time that was just a technically due to the fact that the debts where, in the main, to those connected to the club. To all intents and purposes we went through an administration process overseen by KMPG.

They found seven potential purchasers but after the councils interference that was down to only SISU. It is hard to imagine that there would be a sudden emergence of more interested parties following a points deduction.

The idea that if we had not been 'saved' before the deadline imposed by KMPG the following years would have been better is fundamentally flawed.

 

[Astute]

You're missing a key point here. While we didn't go into administration at the time that was just a technically due to the fact that the debts where, in the main, to those connected to the club. To all intents and purposes we went through an administration process overseen by KMPG.

They found seven potential purchasers but after the councils interference that was down to only SISU. It is hard to imagine that there would be a sudden emergence of more interested parties following a points deduction.

The idea that if we had not been 'saved' before the deadline imposed by KMPG the following years would have been better is fundamentally flawed.

Preferred bidder?

There was only one bid. The other interested parties were waiting for administration to commence before putting a bid together.

So what exactly are you saying?

 

[letsallsingtogether]

The council had a big say on a future owner in 2007. Why do you keep ignoring this basic fact?

Yes they did.
And there lies the problem.
You constantly have a go at various people who were involved in bringing Sisu here.
Their PR was obviously very good at the time as they Conned a lot of people.
The thing is these people have realised what a nasty company they are and have turned their backs on them.
You on the other hand have gone the other way.........Strange.....

 

[Grendel]

Yes they did.
And there lies the problem.
You constantly have a go at various people who were involved in bringing Sisu here.
Their PR was obviously very good at the time as they Conned a lot of people.
The thing is these people have realised what a nasty company they are and have turned their backs on them.
You on the other hand have gone the other way.........Strange.....

The publicity wasn't good at all. Sepella had already earned her "queen of debt" tag. They were renowned as chancers - the only reason they are here is they fitted the councils mantra of perfect owners.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

The publicity wasn't good at all. Sepella had already earned her "queen of debt" tag. They were renowned as chancers - the only reason they are here is they fitted the councils mantra of perfect owners.

Come on G you know they were the only ones bidding at that precise time.
Spin it how you want, people went with them because they didn't want the Club to go into administration.
The rest of us knew very little or nothing about them, tbf we didn't care.
We were hoping they were the saviours of our club coming here to shoot us back up into the dizzy hieghts,fuck me were were all deadly wrong.

 

[chiefdave]

There was only one bid. The other interested parties were waiting for administration to commence before putting a bid together.

According to KMPG at the time after they had looked into all the interested parties they established there were 7 serious bidders. Of the 7 only 3 have ever been publicly revealed. Of the interested parties SISU are the only one who remained after the potential owners had talks with the council.

Who was stated to be waiting into the club went into administration to make a bid and what makes you believe, given they wouldn't entertain the possibility for any of the other bidders, that CCC would have considered selling them ACL?

 

[Astute]

According to KMPG at the time after they had looked into all the interested parties they established there were 7 serious bidders. Of the 7 only 3 have ever been publicly revealed. Of the interested parties SISU are the only one who remained after the potential owners had talks with the council.

Who was stated to be waiting into the club went into administration to make a bid and what makes you believe, given they wouldn't entertain the possibility for any of the other bidders, that CCC would have considered selling them ACL?

The other interested parties didn't make a bid as they were waiting for us to go into administration.

You can bash CCC as much as you like for all I care. They deserve it for what they have done to us. But keeping to the truth would be good. You don't like it when someone twists the truth to make CCC or Wasps look better. So why do you think that you should do it against CCC?

 

[chiefdave]

The other interested parties didn't make a bid as they were waiting for us to go into administration.

What other interested parties?