Council helps football club (31 Viewers)

[Sky Blue Pete]

The thread is about councils who support football clubs and see them as community assets. Ours never have.

The initial set up for the football club was destined for disaster. It's wage bill at the time was not excessive by championship standards - yet the break even was 22,000 paying adults. So either the club became uncompetitive or it went bust.

The club tried to re negotiate but this was flatly refused.

The clubs only purpose was to fund the vanity project known as ACL. Without this it would have had no value at all to this council that viewed the club as a cash cow.

Consider that compared to councils like Nottingham who all but wiped out a loan which was higher than the total sale price of ACL to a franchise from London.

Given the unique position of the club at the time there is little doubt if it had gone into administration in 2007 it would have ceased to exist. The council were not interest in buyers who wanted ACL - they flatly refused to consider any lease extensions to potential purchasers and had a view that the club was a barrier to their vanity project so couldn't care if they were there anyway. That's the rub. The council wanted sisu as tenants and without them we'd probably have folded.

We now have a council who will very happily see the club fold. It's got two new vanity projects. It's new chums wasps who will always take preference for them as they took the vanity project off them (for less than some councils active support of the football club) when they realised it was crumbling around them. Then they have a swimming pool which will cost over £20 million - much of which will be rate payers money - and will, by their own admission lose money.

The council never valued the football club and never will. If they did sisu wouldn't be here and ACL would have been set in a way the Swansea model was in the first place.

Someone will try and claim some nonsense now about the Swansea model being investigated by the EU. That would show something about such posters mentality and as it's 3 years ago I think we can conclude even that argument has gone away.

I can't believe you genuinely believe that the council would be happy to see their football club fold

 

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[Otis]

I can't believe you genuinely believe that the council would be happy to see their football club fold

It's a ludicrous and ridiculous notion and quite frankly, laughable.

The council's problem is quite clearly with Sisu. We all know that in turn hits the club, but to suggest the council would be happy to see the football club fold is farcical in the extreme.

That's Grendel for you though. It's always big words and grand sweeping statements (Wasps want to destroy us, the council would be happy to see us fold, happy for us to move tens of miles away playing in front of temporary stands etc. etc. etc.)

As usual these threads end up losing all sense of perspective and dip their feet quite firmly into the realms of fantasy.

Have a nice day. I have better stuff to be getting on with here.

 

[Nick]

They don't seem too bothered in distressing the club at the minute do they?

 

[will am i]

I've seen how it's worked for wasps and the council.

No, I don't give a lot of people credit. I've seen the pr first hand make somebody who was protesting about a move, cosying up to afc Wimbledon, anti franchising come on here justifying wasps moving here and preaching about it.

I did actually say communication, that means transparency, honesty and better pr. Better communication also means better customer service.

When you can see their pr in action, and how people fall for it so much then of course it would have made a difference.

There are city fans coming on a city forum justifying wasps, justifying high rents, justifying the councils behaviour. There are fans actually happy that the club gets screwed over and think that people like pwkh are heroes.

You are totally ignoring the stuff about before sisu coming here, the high rent is all sisus fault.

So no, I don't really give some people credit when I can see just how much the pr actually works right in front of me.

How would the wasps stuff have gone down if we were fan owned for example? What about if the trust took us over but we still got charged stupid rent?

I think most of us dont give a fuck about Wasps or PR but about CCFC. I know nothing of WASPS except they should be playing in London and not Coventry. We just dont share your obsession with Wasps and what they are doing. Meanwhile back to CCFC - what a complete fuck up we are (Yeah its the fault of Wasps and the Council and obviously not the owners of CCFC who now focus on their core business of finance, court cases and lawyers to the detriment of CCFC and who can blame them after pissing away their investors money).

 

[Nick]

I think most of us dont give a fuck about Wasps or PR but about CCFC. I know nothing of WASPS except they should be playing in London and not Coventry. We just dont share your obsession with Wasps and what they are doing. Meanwhile back to CCFC - what a complete fuck up we are (Yeah its the fault of Wasps and the Council and obviously not the owners of CCFC who now focus on their core business of finance, court cases and lawyers to the detriment of CCFC and who can blame them after pissing away their investors money).

It isn't an obsession, it is pointing out what is happening.

It is alright people saying "most of us don't give a fuck about Wasps or PR" but jump straight on a rumour or a soundbite from a guy from CSF or something.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I can't believe you genuinely believe that the council would be happy to see their football club fold

They applied to put the club into administration through ACL

 

[chiefdave]

It's a ludicrous and ridiculous notion and quite frankly, laughable.

The council's problem is quite clearly with Sisu. We all know that in turn hits the club, but to suggest the council would be happy to see the football club fold is farcical in the extreme.

Let's be honest, at the moment there's not a lot of evidence to suggest the council would do anything to stop the club folding. They are currently refusing to assist the club unless SISU pay them in excess of £300K. They have blocked moves elsewhere, they have moved Wasps in and sold them the stadium, they are building a swimming pool on top of a vital part of our academy.

What there makes you think they are trying to help the club?

And of course this all goes back to before SISU arrived which isn't an indication that new owners won't necessarily change things.

 

[MusicDating]

It's a ludicrous and ridiculous notion and quite frankly, laughable.

The council's problem is quite clearly with Sisu. We all know that in turn hits the club, but to suggest the council would be happy to see the football club fold is farcical in the extreme.

Tbh, the more I find out about the council, the more worried I get about the lengths they might go to. I know this has been posted elsewhere, but taxpayers money and charity didn't seem to matter much in the Open Doors 'witch-hunt'...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-36806767

 

[Nick]

Tbh, the more I find out about the council, the more worried I get about the lengths they might go to. I know this has been posted elsewhere, but taxpayers money and charity didn't seem to matter much in the Open Doors 'witch-hunt'...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-36806767

That just gets swept right under the carpet though!

Would the council want to carry out a witch hunt against a charity, demand legal fees off them in advance? I'd bet that would be ludicrous and laughable too.

 

[Covstu]

Whilst the council are not going great guns to destroy the club they are watching it die which for me is just as bad. They need to be the bigger party here protect the club from itself and the history for the sake of its citizens.

It's clearly a personal battle which has put all parties into short sighted hatred. The fans lose again

 

[clint van damme]

Whilst the council are not going great guns to destroy the club they are watching it die which for me is just as bad. They need to be the bigger party here protect the club from itself and the history for the sake of its citizens.

It's clearly a personal battle which has put all parties into short sighted hatred. The fans lose again

one thing that will be a massive factor in the club surviving will be the supporters getting behind the club and showing a united front in our determination to keep the club alive - at the moment we're so fractured as a support it's just too easy to fuck us over. Unless we can unite behind a common cause and forget all the bickering we've no chance, I won't hold my breath.

 

[dongonzalos]

It's a ludicrous and ridiculous notion and quite frankly, laughable.

The council's problem is quite clearly with Sisu. We all know that in turn hits the club, but to suggest the council would be happy to see the football club fold is farcical in the extreme.

That's Grendel for you though. It's always big words and grand sweeping statements (Wasps want to destroy us, the council would be happy to see us fold, happy for us to move tens of miles away playing in front of temporary stands etc. etc. etc.)

As usual these threads end up losing all sense of perspective and dip their feet quite firmly into the realms of fantasy.

Have a nice day. I have better stuff to be getting on with here.

The most derailing person of any given thread I have ever seen.
It usually follows him losing the debate so he just shifts into something he is bit more comfortable with.

 

[Covstu]

one thing that will be a massive factor in the club surviving will be the supporters getting behind the club and showing a united front in our determination to keep the club alive - at the moment we're so fractured as a support it's just too easy to fuck us over. Unless we can unite behind a common cause and forget all the bickering we've no chance, I won't hold my breath.

Agree this is why a save our city campaign is better than a SISU out, it's too divisive.

 

[italiahorse]

Agree this is why a save our city campaign is better than a SISU out, it's too divisive.

Surely we all want Sisu Out ?
The problem is wasting effort forcing it as they don't seem to be bothered.

All our efforts should be concentrating on keeping everybody talking and weeding out talk stoppers like 'we are building a new stadium' which stops things dead.

The EFL appear not to want to get involved because they believe that a new stadium is the Sisu plan. If they believe that then they will not pressurise the club to sort it and force a real medium term plan which needs to be at the Ricoh for the next 10 years.

 

[Nick]

Surely we all want Sisu Out ?
The problem is wasting effort forcing it as they don't seem to be bothered.

All our efforts should be concentrating on keeping everybody talking and weeding out talk stoppers like 'we are building a new stadium' which stops things dead.

The EFL appear not to want to get involved because they believe that a new stadium is the Sisu plan. If they believe that then they will not pressurise the club to sort it and force a real medium term plan which needs to be at the Ricoh for the next 10 years.

No, it is because they can't get involved.

 

[Grendel]

The most derailing person of any given thread I have ever seen.
It usually follows him losing the debate so he just shifts into something he is bit more comfortable with.

The subject matter is councils that help football clubs. This council has never shown any interest at all in the football club unless there was money to be made.

They make you proud

They make me sick

 

[italiahorse]

No, it is because they can't get involved.

The rules state a 10 year venue requirement. It appears they believe Sisu are building a new stadium. The exact same quotes from Sisu that have got us in the position with regards the loss of the stadium and maybe the academy.

I quote
“The EFL understands that Coventry City are seeking to find a long-term stadium solution that will enable the Sky Blues to generate revenue on a comparable basis to other EFL clubs. We remain in regular dialogue with the club about this matter.”

 

[Nick]

The rules state a 10 year venue requirement. It appears they believe Sisu are building a new stadium. The exact same quotes from Sisu that have got us in the position with regards the loss of the stadium and maybe the academy.

I quote
“The EFL understands that Coventry City are seeking to find a long-term stadium solution that will enable the Sky Blues to generate revenue on a comparable basis to other EFL clubs. We remain in regular dialogue with the club about this matter.”

Yes, so all CCFC say is "look, we tried and the council are making it hard for us, look at these letters...."

 

[Brylowes]

The rules state a 10 year venue requirement. It appears they believe Sisu are building a new stadium. The exact same quotes from Sisu that have got us in the position with regards the loss of the stadium and maybe the academy.

I quote
“The EFL understands that Coventry City are seeking to find a long-term stadium solution that will enable the Sky Blues to generate revenue on a comparable basis to other EFL clubs. We remain in regular dialogue with the club about this matter.”

I honestly believe the EFL has very little interest or understanding of the position CCFC are in.

 

[Nick]

I honestly believe the EFL has very little interest or understanding of the position CCFC are in.

I think that could be said for some of our fans if they think the Football League can come out and say they have to stay at the Ricoh.

 

[italiahorse]

The subject matter is councils that help football clubs. This council has never shown any interest at all in the football club unless there was money to be made.

They make you proud

They make me sick

Your problem is that you only remember what they have not done and not what they have done.
I sure that if Sisu had played it differently rather than threatening it could have been so much different.
Yes, it would have relied on the Council being considerate to the situation but I think the underlying problem has always been CCFC over commitment to moving to the Ricoh and the clubs clout in running the complex from the lowly position of League 1.

 

[italiahorse]

I think that could be said for some of our fans if they think the Football League can come out and say they have to stay at the Ricoh.

Nobody's saying that specifically in the long term.
The football league should lever CCFC for a 10 year medium term plan.
It might be a 5 year rolling contract at the Ricoh while a new stadium is planned and built but it needs to be some sort of commitment.
Organisations are moving on because CCFC are saying a new stadium is planned.
One of the enablers to start the process is the dropping of ongoing court cases on behalf of CCFC and surely the EFL can force reality by insisting on a real plan,

 

[Nick]

Nobody's saying that specifically in the long term.
The football league should lever CCFC for a 10 year medium term plan.
It might be a 5 year rolling contract at the Ricoh while a new stadium is planned and built but it needs to be some sort of commitment.
Organisations are moving on because CCFC are saying a new stadium is planned.
One of the enablers to start the process is the dropping of ongoing court cases on behalf of CCFC and surely the EFL can force reality by insisting on a real plan,

How can they tell CCFC to get a 5 year rolling contract at the Ricoh?

Are you missing something here?

How can the Football League tell anybody to drop a court case they have a legal right to do so (Remember SISU have tried to make it clear the legals are not with CCFC, maybe that's so they keep all of the winnings, who knows?) Next you will be saying the Football league will demand the council gets paid money they aren't entitled to so talks can go on?

It won't happen will it? They can't do it.

 

[clint van damme]

Surely we all want Sisu Out ?
The problem is wasting effort forcing it as they don't seem to be bothered.

All our efforts should be concentrating on keeping everybody talking and weeding out talk stoppers like 'we are building a new stadium' which stops things dead.

The EFL appear not to want to get involved because they believe that a new stadium is the Sisu plan. If they believe that then they will not pressurise the club to sort it and force a real medium term plan which needs to be at the Ricoh for the next 10 years.

I don't think anyone wants SISU to stay, but there are people who proportion all the blame on SISU, some who blame SISU and the council, some who blame the council and wasps more than SISU, the permutations go on and on. That's why we're in danger of ending up with about 50 splinter groups holding 10 men protests that no-one takes any notice of.

It's fine having those different opinions and debating them on here, but in public we need to show a bit more solidarity.

We need to get behind the common cause of saving the club, the current state of the support makes us too easy to ignore.

 

[Nick]

I don't think anyone wants SISU to stay, but there are people who proportion all the blame on SISU, some who blame SISU and the council, some who blame the council and wasps more than SISU, the permutations go on and on. That's why we're in danger of ending up with about 50 splinter groups holding 10 men protests that no-one takes any notice of.

It's fine having those different opinions and debating them on here, but in public we need to show a bit more solidarity.

We need to get behind the common cause of saving the club, the current state of the support makes us too easy to ignore.

Exactly.

People need to look at what would be effective.

Show SISU, Wasps and the council that they can't fuck with CCFC. Turn out in numbers.

 

[Fergusons_Beard]

This thread only highlights how many people would rather take sides against our club because they don't like the way the club is run by the owners!

Fuck me-the owners of this club have been twats before SISU turned up and nobody said a dickie bird.

Any other City in the country and this would be a non-starter. All fans would be completely pro-club and would be outraged at the stance of the council to allow the Cuckoos (new name for Wasps) Rugby club in. In fact I'd go as far to say the council of any other city in the country would have never allowed it.

Just highlights the antipathy towards Coventry City Football Club by the people who actually live in the city.

I'd guess that Most of the pro-club (notice I didn't say pro-SISU) fans come from outside Coventry.

I was born in Coventry and live in Sheffield. Most of my Weds and Utd supporting mates cannot believe the stuff that has gone on since we moved to the Ricoh. They are astonished that the council have acted in the way they have-they all think that whatever the owners have done that the City needs to back the club 100%.

It's just not as simple as getting rid of SISU-who in their right mind would buy a club which doesn't own its own ground, who's academy is in danger of closing and who's city council clearly believes that Rugby is the sport of choice. Not to mention the debt we're in. And if we did have new owners-would the council and Wasps give our stadium back or pay for an new home for the academy?

When we lose our beloved club the only people who will truely mourn will be the fans-and questions will be asked about whether we could have done stuff differently.


In went in off Ferguson's beard....

 

[Nick]

This thread only highlights how many people would rather take sides against our club because they don't like the way the club is run by the owners!

Fuck me-the owners of this club have been twats before SISU turned up and nobody said a dickie bird.

Any other City in the country and this would be a non-starter. All fans would be completely pro-club and would be outraged at the stance of the council to allow the Cuckoos (new name for Wasps) Rugby club in. In fact I'd go as far to say the council of any other city in the country would have never allowed it.

Just highlights the antipathy towards Coventry City Football Club by the people who actually live in the city.

I'd guess that Most of the pro-club (notice I didn't say pro-SISU) fans come from outside Coventry.

I was born in Coventry and live in Sheffield. Most of my Weds and Utd supporting mates cannot believe the stuff that has gone on since we moved to the Ricoh. They are astonished that the council have acted in the way they have-they all think that whatever the owners have done that the City needs to back the club 100%.

It's just not as simple as getting rid of SISU-who in their right mind would buy a club which doesn't own its own ground, who's academy is in danger of closing and who's city council clearly believes that Rugby is the sport of choice. Not to mention the debt we're in. And if we did have new owners-would the council and Wasps give our stadium back or pay for an new home for the academy?

When we lose our beloved club the only people who will truely mourn will be the fans-and questions will be asked about whether we could have done stuff differently.


In went in off Ferguson's beard....

I have said it before, Leeds fans hate their owner but if it had happened to them they would have been up in arms. Instead our fans fall for the PR shit because it is making SISU look bad.

It is obvious that everything is linked, CSF is linked to Wasps, CSF is linked to Millerchip, Millerchip has the power over Cov Rugby, CSF are linked back to the council, Higgs linked to CSF and ACL, ACL linked to the council, ACL linked to Compass, Compass linked to Wasps...

Some fans are happy though because they think it is SISU that are being damaged in all of this, PWKH put's that clause in for the academy and he is a hero, he has really shown SISU.

 

[Fergusons_Beard]

Yep that's right Nick-and this is what's happening at the moment!

What about council selling land to Tesco and not giving some money to Club. Higgs Trust going back on the pledge to sell their share to City (and Acadamy stuff) Council going back in their pledge to ease Club back into Ricoh.

It all boils down to money & fans should understand that the council saw pound signs as soon as they realised that the Ricoh opened up massive opportunities-the club were never in with a shout.


In went in off Ferguson's beard....

 

[Nick]

Yep that's right Nick-and this is what's happening at the moment!

What about council selling land to Tesco and not giving some money to Club. Higgs Trust going back on the pledge to sell their share to City (and Acadamy stuff) Council going back in their pledge to ease Club back into Ricoh.

It all boils down to money & fans should understand that the council saw pound signs as soon as they realised that the Ricoh opened up massive opportunities-the club were never in with a shout.


In went in off Ferguson's beard....

People aren't willing to have a look at the bigger picture though, everything has to be shouting about SISU. It might make feel better, but it won't achieve anything.

 

[Fergusons_Beard]

People aren't willing to have a look at the bigger picture though, everything has to be shouting about SISU. It might make feel better, but it won't achieve anything.

As I said before-there is NO alternative to SISU. Not until we own our own ground and academy secure. That is going to take a long time-plus it'll put us in tons of debt. After due diligence the picture for a prospective owner could be a lot worse!

Am not sure but I bet the percentage of football clubs making a profit is less than 5%. When you don't have any revenue streams a club will always be in debt! We have to sell players (which kills me) to gain income. Honestly surprised me that Mowbray got anything at all to spend!


In went in off Ferguson's beard....

 

[italiahorse]

How can they tell CCFC to get a 5 year rolling contract at the Ricoh?

Are you missing something here?

How can the Football League tell anybody to drop a court case they have a legal right to do so (Remember SISU have tried to make it clear the legals are not with CCFC, maybe that's so they keep all of the winnings, who knows?) Next you will be saying the Football league will demand the council gets paid money they aren't entitled to so talks can go on?

It won't happen will it? They can't do it.

It's like pulling teeth with you Nick.
I'm not saying they force them to do anything. I'm saying by demanding they follow the rules it will force CCFC to come up with a plan to achieve them.
I'm suggesting 5 years rolling deal at the Ricoh would be a fair compromise as it is really the only option and allows the club to build a stadium and give notice.
Sisu would also need to think seriously about the court cases in respect of achieving the EFL rule.

 

[italiahorse]

Exactly.

People need to look at what would be effective.

Show SISU, Wasps and the council that they can't fuck with CCFC. Turn out in numbers.

So blindly follow the non existent CCFC plan ?
Good luck with that one. I'm out.

 

[Nick]

It's like pulling teeth with you Nick.
I'm not saying they force them to do anything. I'm saying by demanding they follow the rules it will force CCFC to come up with a plan to achieve them.
I'm suggesting 5 years rolling deal at the Ricoh would be a fair compromise as it is really the only option and allows the club to build a stadium and give notice.
Sisu would also need to think seriously about the court cases in respect of achieving the EFL rule.

But the EFL can't tell SISU to drop any legal action, it's their legal right to whether we agree or not?

They can't enforce CCFC playing at the Ricoh if the owners won't have it.

Can you imagine the tin of worms that would be opened if the Football League start telling people to drop legal action nothing to do with them? It's bad enough Wasps and Millerchip are doing it.

 

[Nick]

So blindly follow the non existent CCFC plan ?
Good luck with that one. I'm out.

Cheerio.

 

[chickentikkamasala]

People aren't willing to have a look at the bigger picture though, everything has to be shouting about SISU. It might make feel better, but it won't achieve anything.

Just as some on here continue to shout at the council and rarely comment on Sisu.

So as you are the forum 'owner' and have gone onto the telegraph site to argue your membership numbers, do you not feel you're in a position of creating solidarity and leadership?

What suggestions do you have Nick? What do you suggest?

We know your opinions of the council, can you explain fully your opinions of Sisu? What have they done right and what have they done wrong?

A reply giving your honest opinion of Sisu would be nice, jist for the balance of course