Stability (57 Viewers)

[ClarkeZ]

There have been a lot of posts in the past few days about finance, no money in the club and related issues. The past 24 hours I've talked this to death on various posts, but I wanted to make a point clear.

The club's current situation is one of stability. Mediocrity, maybe, but financial stability is the vital part of this right now. In recent history we have been almost without a club entirely. Had administration, almost liquidation, points deductions etc.

Let me clarify, SISU is not making the club any better, we desperately need investment and an end to the legal farce. BUT we have a club which is stable and working within its means. That means we have a foundation to build upon if we can make progress happen.

Yes its a bit shit at the moment, struggling for on-field quality, low gates etc. But it could be a hell of a lot worse, indeed it has been in recent years. We almost managed a play-off push last season (first positive season for a long time) and are not in major debt. SISU dont have money to burn into the squad, but we are full stable and have a platform to maybe bring in investment in the future when the off-field battle eventually subside.

In reality, we cannot expect any financial input until all that settles. So staying out of major debt is critical to keeping the club alive short term.

 

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[Nick]

A problem is that people see Transfer Deadline day and Man City buying all these players but I don't think a lot of people grasp about how things are in League 1.

I have said to a few people that it is how league 1 works, and all they can say is "we shouldn't be in league 1".

Even if SISU did plough loads of money in, what happens then if it doesn't work? It wouldn't be a gift to the club would it?

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

Not a problem with living within your means, why should anyone be expected to put their own money into a bottomless pit of a football club and lose it. However we are not stable. We have no where to play after 2018 and have no site for an academy after 2017. While I have no problem with Sisu running the club as a business why aren't they doing everything that they can to ensure we continue to play in Coventry and that the academy continues to flourish. Their agenda seems to be to hold on to the club while their legal action runs its course. The club should be their priority. To me it seems they are more concerned about their court cases.
Within the means that they have, why aren't they doing everything that they can to make the club more profitable? Outsourcing the shop and the programmes just seems like a move to lessen risk but also lessen the profits. Why don't they sort out the mess with tickets so that potential supporters are not turned away. Why don't they sort out the web site (which still has this seasons league games underneath last season's friend list in the fixture list). Everything seems amateurish and lacking in care.

 

[skybluebeduff]

Chris Andersons ambition that he mentioned in March was to be a club like Southampton or Swansea to get out of this league, which those clubs did, but with investment!

In fact most of the shit he chatted in this interview has gone south since then!!
http://www.skysports.com/football/n...terview-coventry-chiefs-championship-ambition

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

There have been a lot of posts in the past few days about finance, no money in the club and related issues. The past 24 hours I've talked this to death on various posts, but I wanted to make a point clear.

The club's current situation is one of stability. Mediocrity, maybe, but financial stability is the vital part of this right now. In recent history we have been almost without a club entirely. Had administration, almost liquidation, points deductions etc.

Let me clarify, SISU is not making the club any better, we desperately need investment and an end to the legal farce. BUT we have a club which is stable and working within its means. That means we have a foundation to build upon if we can make progress happen.

Yes its a bit shit at the moment, struggling for on-field quality, low gates etc. But it could be a hell of a lot worse, indeed it has been in recent years. We almost managed a play-off push last season (first positive season for a long time) and are not in major debt. SISU dont have money to burn into the squad, but we are full stable and have a platform to maybe bring in investment in the future when the off-field battle eventually subside.

In reality, we cannot expect any financial input until all that settles. So staying out of major debt is critical to keeping the club alive short term.

No major debt??? We owe SISU and their investors(Acording to SISU) a bare minimum of £30m+ and you say "No major debt"

 

[oxymoron]

Not a problem with living within your means, why should anyone be expected to put their own money into a bottomless pit of a football club and lose it. However we are not stable. We have no where to play after 2018 and have no site for an academy after 2017. While I have no problem with Sisu running the club as a business why aren't they doing everything that they can to ensure we continue to play in Coventry and that the academy continues to flourish. Their agenda seems to be to hold on to the club while their legal action runs its course. The club should be their priority. To me it seems they are more concerned about their court cases.
Within the means that they have, why aren't they doing everything that they can to make the club more profitable? Outsourcing the shop and the programmes just seems like a move to lessen risk but also lessen the profits. Why don't they sort out the mess with tickets so that potential supporters are not turned away. Why don't they sort out the web site (which still has this seasons league games underneath last season's friend list in the fixture list). Everything seems amateurish and lacking in care.

everything here is bang on.

 

[skybluetony176]

A problem is that people see Transfer Deadline day and Man City buying all these players but I don't think a lot of people grasp about how things are in League 1.

I have said to a few people that it is how league 1 works, and all they can say is "we shouldn't be in league 1".

Even if SISU did plough loads of money in, what happens then if it doesn't work? It wouldn't be a gift to the club would it?

I don't think anyone is trying to compare us to Man City Nick and let's face it they don't need to to make our situation look dire. If you want to do that there's plenty of league one clubs to compare us to to make that point.

 

[ClarkeZ]

No major debt??? We owe SISU and their investors(Acording to SISU) a bare minimum of £30m+ and you say "No major debt"

The club effectively "owing" the owners money is different. Its not with creditors who are demanding the repayments, which leads towards problems like administration etc.

 

[Nick]

I don't think anyone is trying to compare us to Man City Nick and let's face it they don't need to to make our situation look dire. If you want to do that there's plenty of league one clubs to compare us to to make that point.

Sheffield United?
Bolton?

 

[skybluebeduff]

Anyone good enough to work these figures out, signed off By Fisher in Feb? And what they all mean?

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

The club effectively "owing" the owners money is different. Its not with creditors who are demanding the repayments, which leads towards problems like administration etc.

Do you mean our debt to SISU isn't really a debt?..... and problems like administration etc the like of which SISU have already led us down the path of, and cost us 10 points deductions and mismanaged our Football Club to the point of 1 relegation, and being 20 minutes from a second relegation..... Pray, do tell us more

 

[Nick]

Do you mean our debt to SISU isn't really a debt?..... and problems like administration etc the like of which SISU have already led us down the path of, and cost us 10 points deductions and mismanaged our Football Club to the point of 1 relegation, and being 20 minutes from a second relegation..... Pray, do tell us more

You do realise they went into admin because ACL forced it? SISU just got in there so they could do it themselves didn't they?

 

[Ashdown]

I don't agree that we have stability at all. Our assets are eroded all the time it seems and our squad becomes worth less every year, the academy is under threat and we currently have somewhere to play for only another 2 years. Court action alienates all the people we need on board to work with the club and we are still being lied to by our owners. It's very early days but on the playing side we don't appear to have the steel in the side to compete at this level. We have a manager who seems to be clutching at straws almost every week and hoping a bit of tippy tappy possession football is going to reap dividends.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

There have been a lot of posts in the past few days about finance, no money in the club and related issues. The past 24 hours I've talked this to death on various posts, but I wanted to make a point clear.

The club's current situation is one of stability. Mediocrity, maybe, but financial stability is the vital part of this right now. In recent history we have been almost without a club entirely. Had administration, almost liquidation, points deductions etc.

Let me clarify, SISU is not making the club any better, we desperately need investment and an end to the legal farce. BUT we have a club which is stable and working within its means. That means we have a foundation to build upon if we can make progress happen.

Yes its a bit shit at the moment, struggling for on-field quality, low gates etc. But it could be a hell of a lot worse, indeed it has been in recent years. We almost managed a play-off push last season (first positive season for a long time) and are not in major debt. SISU dont have money to burn into the squad, but we are full stable and have a platform to maybe bring in investment in the future when the off-field battle eventually subside.

In reality, we cannot expect any financial input until all that settles. So staying out of major debt is critical to keeping the club alive short term.

People are angry at SISU, it's understandable. They have been utterly terrible owners. From this though, people have a go at them for everything silly and stupid, they also side with the council, and are happy for Wasps to do well because it's seen as 'getting one over on SISU' even though the club are then collateral damage. There's almost no unity in the fan base at all, the 'New Trust Statement' thread bickering backs that up.

Whilst there are a minority (maybe a majority on SBT!) questioning why SISU aren't spending millions on players, for me it boils down to two things:

- If the budget is not the same as last year, by selling players and bringing in half the replacements of half the quality, whilst putting prices up on just about everything, you might balance, but you're only going in one direction and the false hope from last season just pisses people off even more. How in that case, did they get it so wrong last season with the budget? These people are supposed to be high professionals in finance, how do they make such astronomical mistakes on calculations?

- As someone stated, the press need to find out if the budget is the same. If it turns out that it is, the current mess with the team all boils down to Mowbray, and is where the current frustration of the fans should be going for things on the pitch.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

You do realise they went into admin because ACL forced it? SISU just got in there so they could do it themselves didn't they?

So that is acceptable is it?... You know as well as everybody that SISU "Engineered the administration" They knew exactly what they were doing. Or was it all that nasty ACL/CCC people's fault. Grow a pair Nick ffs. Stop deflecting blame off SISU. Yet you moan when being accused of being a SISU apologist. Give your head a wobble ffs!

 

[Nick]

So that is acceptable is it?... You know as well as everybody that SISU "Engineered the administration" They knew exactly what they were doing. Or was it all that nasty ACL/CCC people's fault. Grow a pair Nick ffs. Stop deflecting blame off SISU. Yet you moan when being accused of being a SISU apologist. Give your head a wobble ffs!

I didn't deflect the blame, I pointed out that ACL were going to force the admin so SISU did it first.

That is a fact isn't it?

 

[ClarkeZ]

Do you mean our debt to SISU isn't really a debt?..... and problems like administration etc the like of which SISU have already led us down the path of, and cost us 10 points deductions and mismanaged our Football Club to the point of 1 relegation, and being 20 minutes from a second relegation..... Pray, do tell us more

If its a "debt" to SISU as the owners of the club, then they owe themselves money? If SISU are saying the club owes them money then thats their issue, they've probably lost it.

I get it, you hate SISU more than anything in the world! The point im getting at is that right now we are financially stable to the point where we are not at risk of issues like administration.

I'm not trying to blow sunshine up SISU's ass, I wish they would move on too, they've got it wrong consistently, but right now administration etc is not a risk.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

I didn't deflect the blame, I pointed out that ACL were going to force the admin so SISU did it first.

That is a fact isn't it?

You're supposed to be intelligent. Use your f**king brains man!

 

[ClarkeZ]

So that is acceptable is it?... You know as well as everybody that SISU "Engineered the administration" They knew exactly what they were doing. Or was it all that nasty ACL/CCC people's fault. Grow a pair Nick ffs. Stop deflecting blame off SISU. Yet you moan when being accused of being a SISU apologist. Give your head a wobble ffs!

So realistically, give me your solution. Instead of finger pointing and screaming and shouting and banging your fists, how do you fix it right now.

Here are your issues:
SISU wont sell except for enough money to recoup their losses - thats pretty much a fact
SISU don't have capital to plough money into the playing squad - thats also pretty much a fact

Aside from the legal bollocks which is going to have run its course in the next year, what are you going to do? No one wants to buy the club, this magic money is not coming, solve it.
I apologies for trying to reduce the doom, gloom and fucking whinging for 5 minutes by pointing out, at least we aren't about to be liquidated again.

 

[Nick]

You're supposed to be intelligent. Use your f**king brains man!

I think you are missing the point, I stated a fact...

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

[QUOTE="js_lilley, post: 1147517, member: 8600"]If its a "debt" to SISU as the owners of the club, then they owe themselves money? If SISU are saying the club owes them money then thats their issue, they've probably lost it.

I get it, you hate SISU more than anything in the world! The point im getting at is that right now we are financially stable to the point where we are not at risk of issues like administration.

I'm not trying to blow sunshine up SISU's ass, I wish they would move on too, they've got it wrong consistently, but right now administration etc is not a risk.[/QUOTE]
Hold your f**king horses right there mate... The clever arses on here are bursting blood vessels saying CCFC and SISU are NOT the same.
Yet they admit SISU want their money back from CCFC... Pray tell... How will they do that then

 

[ClarkeZ]

Hold your f**king horses right there mate... The clever arses on here are bursting blood vessels saying CCFC and SISU are NOT the same.
Yet they admit SISU want their money back from CCFC... Pray tell... How will they do that then

If you own a business you have your business which has its own accounts, and you have your own personal current accounts. Right?
If you decide, for whatever reason, to put money into your business account from your personal, thats your own risk, you now effectively owe yourself money.
Your business then loses money, the money you put into it is gone, tough shit, its gone.

Unless I've got this completely the wrong way around, SISU saying the club owes it money is like me giving my hypothetical son a fiver as pocket money, and then crying that I cant have it back once hes spent it.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

I think you are missing the point, I stated a fact...

I think you are the one missing the point. SISU knew what they were going to do from the very second they "Witheld rent payments over 12 months in advance"... but they fell foul when they took on the British Legal System.

 

[skybluetony176]

Sheffield United?
Bolton?

And probably at least 50% of the clubs in-between.

The point being I don't understand why you're trying to make out people are comparing CCFC against MCFC or any premier league club for that reason because A) that simply isn't happening and B) nobody needs to, you only have to look at our immediate competition to see how dire our situation is.

 

[Nick]

And probably at least 50% of the clubs in-between.

The point being I don't understand why you're trying to make out people are comparing CCFC against MCFC or any premier league club for that reason because A) that simply isn't happening and B) nobody needs to, you only have to look at our immediate competition to see how dire our situation is.

How many League 1 clubs have their owners pumping loads of money in?

My point was people are shouting about investing, put loads of money in etc. The club spending money it didn't have probably got us into this mess.

Meanwhile, people proudly shout NOPM to starve SISU out, and then bitch about investment.

 

[oldskyblue58]

You do realise they went into admin because ACL forced it? SISU just got in there so they could do it themselves didn't they?

mute point really. The application for administration was at the end of a series of legal actions that were all uncontested and formed a process. That process could be argued to have began with the ARVO charge separating the assets from the liabilities during a time that CCFC assets moved unbeknown to creditors. ACL went to court but SISU pressed the button knowing that they had control of the process which broke the lease. Forced or planned we take our pick don't we

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

If you own a business you have your business which has its own accounts, and you have your own personal current accounts. Right?
If you decide, for whatever reason, to put money into your business account from your personal, thats your own risk, you now effectively owe yourself money.
Your business then loses money, the money you put into it is gone, tough shit, its gone.

Unless I've got this completely the wrong way around, SISU saying the club owes it money is like me giving my hypothetical son a fiver as pocket money, and then crying that I cant have it back once hes spent it.

Errr you haven't answered my question.

 

[ClarkeZ]

And probably at least 50% of the clubs in-between.

The point being I don't understand why you're trying to make out people are comparing CCFC against MCFC or any premier league club for that reason because A) that simply isn't happening and B) nobody needs to, you only have to look at our immediate competition to see how dire our situation is.

I think the reason that has come up, is there have been a lot of calls from people on SBT recently for money to be dumped into the team to buy players and bring in better loanees. Then when told that said money doesn't exist haven't got the point. It's all well and good asking for investment, but SISU don't have it and its not coming from the trees. Thats where this came from its now exploded into a big SISU drama.

 

[ClarkeZ]

Errr you haven't answered my question.

Yes I have. They are saying they want their money back. Either they dont get it back (the tough shit part) or they make profits over numerous years which in reality they are entitled to.
If a company they own loses money they put into it, there's fuck all they can do except make it back.

On the other hand, if they had borrowed £20m from the bank and the bank want it back, thats where the issue would be.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Yes the club is more financially stable. Is it an actual strategy or is it that the investors have said no more funds take your pick. But in theory the debt burden is not getting larger and the club is only spending what it gets in - assuming that the interest is not demanded

What it does set is a limit on expenditure which in turn because the income is restricted impacts on the ability and ambitions of the club.

The creditors are to the owners Sconset & ARVO who are managed by their agents SISU on behalf of investors. Doesn't matter if it is "Owner" debt or not it is still a liability that impacts on the going concern of the group, is due for repayment, accrues interest, is secured on assets and forms a large obstacle to anyone wanting to acquire the club. The owners might be less likely to call it in than say HMRC but we should not rely on that - especially when it will be an investment not football finance decision

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

How many League 1 clubs have their owners pumping loads of money in?

My point was people are shouting about investing, put loads of money in etc. The club spending money it didn't have probably got us into this mess.

Meanwhile, people proudly shout NOPM to starve SISU out, and then bitch about investment.

I'm sure you're suffer from selective blindness. Nobody in their right mind will buy into something that they know might be s**t. Just like my car that you have had a "J Arthur" every night over the last 10 years(OK I give up. I will tell you it's a pile of s**t... Do you still want to buy it?)

 

[Nick]

I think the reason that has come up, is there have been a lot of calls from people on SBT recently for money to be dumped into the team to buy players and bring in better loanees. Then when told that said money doesn't exist haven't got the point. It's all well and good asking for investment, but SISU don't have it and its not coming from the trees. Thats where this came from its now exploded into a big SISU drama.

Of course it is exploding into a big SISU drama.

People don't seem to grasp we are in League 1 and that our manager is a League 1 Manager. League 1 Managers have restrictions, that is football. People just keep shouting "give him money for a striker" but they failed to acknowledge he had already signed 2.

The example was the guy sat near me the other week, at the start it was "I cant believe SISU actually paid for a player, i'd never expect it (about turnbull)" and when by the end of the half he was that angry it was "SISU don't even let Mowbray buy players".

It is as if people don't want to take a step back and understand things, or see the bigger picture that is football in general.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Yes I have. They are saying they want their money back. Either they dont get it back (the tough shit part) or they make profits over numerous years which in reality they are entitled to.
If a company they own loses money they put into it, there's fuck all they can do except make it back.

On the other hand, if they had borrowed £20m from the bank and the bank want it back, thats where the issue would be.

What OSB58 said.

 

[Nick]

I'm sure you're suffer from selective blindness. Nobody in their right mind will buy into something that they know might be s**t. Just like my car that you have had a "J Arthur" every night over the last 10 years(OK I give up. I will tell you it's a pile of s**t... Do you still want to buy it?)

So don't moan about investment then? It is more ironic that those shouting NOPM shout the loudest about budgets and investment.

 

[oucho]

Reality check - we are not financially stable. We made a loss again according to the latest set of accounts.

Nor are we "stable" on the pitch -we're going backwards from where we were last season.

Nor are we stable in term's of the club's infrastructure with no home ground after 2018 and the questions over the acacedmy.

Nor are we stable in terms of our squad, most of whom have their contracts up in the next year or so.

Similarly, the manager's deal on runs to the end of the season, so no stability there as such.

But apart from that, yeah we're stable enough.