Stability (50 Viewers)

[ClarkeZ]

Yes the club is more financially stable. Is it an actual strategy or is it that the investors have said no more funds take your pick. But in theory the debt burden is not getting larger and the club is only spending what it gets in - assuming that the interest is not demanded

What it does set is a limit on expenditure which in turn because the income is restricted impacts on the ability and ambitions of the club.

The creditors are to the owners Sconset & ARVO who are managed by their agents SISU on behalf of investors. Doesn't matter if it is "Owner" debt or not it is still a liability that impacts on the going concern of the group, is due for repayment, accrues interest, is secured on assets and forms a large obstacle to anyone wanting to acquire the club. The owners might be less likely to call it in than say HMRC but we should not rely on that - especially when it will be an investment not football finance decision

That's the information I didn't know. Thanks for clarifying.
It does limit us, which is a concern, but its better than situations we have been in in recent history.

 

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[oucho]

So don't moan about investment then? It is more ironic that those shouting NOPM shout the loudest about budgets and investment.

I don't blame SISU if they won't want to cover further losses; clearly, they have no obligation to do so. Unfortunately though, big investment is what we need, so if they don't fancy it (and, again, it's their choice), they should hand over the club to someone who does want to give us big backing.

 

[Nick]

I don't blame SISU if they won't want to cover further losses; clearly, they have no obligation to do so. Unfortunately though, big investment is what we need, so if they don't fancy it (and, again, it's their choice), they should hand over the club to someone who does want to give us big backing.

And it is all well and good saying that.

If there is a rich Arab waiting to come in and build us a stadium near the city centre and plough millions in just as a bit of fun then where is he?

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

That's the information I didn't know. Thanks for clarifying.
It does limit us, which is a concern, but its better than situations we have been in in recent history.

Wtf do you mean "Didn't know" I've been telling you the same thing as OSB58 has said ffs!

 

[ClarkeZ]

What OSB58 said.

Such a shame you didn't know that information earlier, would have saved all this shouting!

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

So don't moan about investment then? It is more ironic that those shouting NOPM shout the loudest about budgets and investment.

Like you shouting the loudest in SISU's defence?

 

[Nick]

Like you shouting the loudest in SISU's defence?

Where?

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Such a shame you didn't know that information earlier, would have saved all this shouting!

Are you real? OSB58 has said this on a few ocassions.

 

[Senior Vick from Alicante]

My old fella said to me the other day that he had heard that Sisu would want 70 million to sell up and move on and that balance sheet seems to prove it. All they are doing is trying to stay cash neutral, treading water suits their game while they pin their hopes at getting a return on their judicial reviews. They are a business that will only invest if they can see a return so that counts us out. The only time that this club will get a new owner is if they liquidate and some one picks up the pieces. The fact that the club is failing will only contribute to their legal case in their eyes as it will be an increase in any possible damage's that they can apply for in the long run. They made a mistake buying us, if they would admit it and they are just letting it free wheel now.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Of course it is exploding into a big SISU drama.

People don't seem to grasp we are in League 1 and that our manager is a League 1 Manager. League 1 Managers have restrictions, that is football. People just keep shouting "give him money for a striker" but they failed to acknowledge he had already signed 2.

The example was the guy sat near me the other week, at the start it was "I cant believe SISU actually paid for a player, i'd never expect it (about turnbull)" and when by the end of the half he was that angry it was "SISU don't even let Mowbray buy players".

It is as if people don't want to take a step back and understand things, or see the bigger picture that is football in general.

Exactly, and those two 'strikers' he signed first; Reid and Thomas, don't look to be particularly good on first inspection. Obviously we will pass any further judgment until they've had more time, but that, as I keep saying, points to the managers recruitment rather than SISU's faults.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Where?

F**k off Nick. Anyone that says anything detrimental about SISU and you're all over it like flies round s**t

 

[ClarkeZ]

Wtf do you mean "Didn't know" I've been telling you the same thing as OSB58 has said ffs!

No you didn't. You vaguely said SISU want their money back.
OSB actually gave me the information I didn't know, exactly where the money SISU originally put into the club came from, where the liabilities sit and the risks associated.
You've angrily given me vague arguments which had no understandable factual basis, which is where OSB differed from you.

 

[Nick]

Exactly, and those two 'strikers' he signed first; Reid and Thomas, don't look to be particularly good on first inspection. Obviously we will pass any further judgment until they've had more time, but that, as I keep saying, points to the managers recruitment rather than SISU's faults.

The bloke moaning near me was completely oblivious to it, he either really didn't know or was completely blocking it out.

Should we just let the manager sign players, if they dont work just keep bringing in more and more until they do?

Same with Reid, we don't play Wingers. We brought wingers in on trial, we don't play Wingers.

 

[Otis]

And it is all well and good saying that.

If there is a rich Arab waiting to come in and build us a stadium near the city centre and plough millions in just as a bit of fun then where is he?

Patience, my good man, patience.

Anyone know where I can by a fez and some Sheik sunglasses?

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

The bloke moaning near me was completely oblivious to it, he either really didn't know or was completely blocking it out.

Should we just let the manager sign players, if they dont work just keep bringing in more and more until they do?

Same with Reid, we don't play Wingers. We brought wingers in on trial, we don't play Wingers.

Yeah I know, it's bonkers.

Deviating away from SISU for a minute, we need some fucking balls in the team. Two or three players that aren't afraid to break a leg.

 

[Otis]

My old fella said to me the other day that he had heard that Sisu would want 70 million to sell up and move on and that balance sheet seems to prove it. All they are doing is trying to stay cash neutral, treading water suits their game while they pin their hopes at getting a return on their judicial reviews. They are a business that will only invest if they can see a return so that counts us out. The only time that this club will get a new owner is if they liquidate and some one picks up the pieces. The fact that the club is failing will only contribute to their legal case in their eyes as it will be an increase in any possible damage's that they can apply for in the long run. They made a mistake buying us, if they would admit it and they are just letting it free wheel now.

I think there are not many though who believe they will win the legal wrangle though. Not done particularly well so far have they!

 

[hill83]

'What someone else said'

 

[oucho]

And it is all well and good saying that.

If there is a rich Arab waiting to come in and build us a stadium near the city centre and plough millions in just as a bit of fun then where is he?

True, but the other point worth mentioning is that SISU have caused so much bad feeling that a new set of faces round the table, even without putting in more funding than SISU do, would surely help us make progress on some fronts.

 

[Nick]

True, but the other point worth mentioning is that SISU have caused so much bad feeling that a new set of faces round the table, even without putting in more funding than SISU do, would surely help us make progress on some fronts.

So where are they? I'd happily back somebody else coming in.

The other question is "why would they"?

 

[oldskyblue58]

Can we get some things straight about liquidation.

- it is not administration there is no coming out the other side and carrying on under a different ownership
- a liquidator sells everything he can, but it is no longer a going concern so the values are often very much lower than you may expect, and the sale proceeds are distributed to pay the liquidator and creditors
- liquidation immediately means the Golden share goes back to the FL and the members vote on who then gets it next season
- liquidation means that all contracts cease including players, academy, ground etc
- players are free to make other arrangements
- it is not a solution it is an extinction

 

[Nick]

Can we get some things straight about liquidation.

- it is not administration there is no coming out the other side and carrying on under a different ownership
- a liquidator sells everything he can, but it is no longer a going concern so the values are often very much lower than you may expect, and the sale proceeds are distributed to pay the liquidator and creditors
- liquidation immediately means the Golden share goes back to the FL and the members vote on who then gets it next season
- liquidation means that all contracts cease including players, academy, ground etc
- players are free to make other arrangements
- it is not a solution it is an extinction

People are calling for this to get rid of SISU....

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

So don't moan about investment then? It is more ironic that those shouting NOPM shout the loudest about budgets and investment.

Why the f**k shouldn't I moan about investment? Investment in football clubs is the "Norm" requirement of Football Club owners... Or am I missing something?

 

[Nick]

Why the f**k shouldn't I moan about investment? Investment in football clubs is the "Norm" requirement of Football Club owners... Or am I missing something?

Fans supporting their clubs rather than refusing to so they can "starve" them is probably what you are missing. Oh, as well as the irony.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

No you didn't. You vaguely said SISU want their money back.
OSB actually gave me the information I didn't know, exactly where the money SISU originally put into the club came from, where the liabilities sit and the risks associated.
You've angrily given me vague arguments which had no understandable factual basis, which is where OSB differed from you.

Which part of... "CCFC owe SISU £30m+ and SISU want it back" Didn't you understand?
Mind you, Ray Ranson is Quoted "CCFC are one of only three Football Clubs not in debt" Yet not long after this f**king mahooosive lie did we all find out the debt had been restructured into(I think) bonds. Which however you look at it meant we STILL owed those lying ba***rds ££30m+

 

[Bruce the Boot]

No major debt??? We owe SISU and their investors(Acording to SISU) a bare minimum of £30m+ and you say "No major debt"

And Remember Timmy said the club was debt free

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Fans supporting their clubs rather than refusing to so they can "starve" them is probably what you are missing. Oh, as well as the irony.

I've ploughed more than my fair share of money into CCFC over the 50 or so years of supporting them. So don't fucking tell me my stance against SISU is wrong!..... Still want to buy your dream car off me without test driving it or even seeing it first?

 

[Nick]

I've ploughed more than my fair share of money into CCFC over the 50 or so years of supporting them. So don't fucking tell me my stance against SISU is wrong!..... Still want to buy your dream car off me without test driving it or even seeing it first?

Are you still going on with your analogies?

It is a good job not all fans give up when we aren't winning.

I never once said you are wrong to think that, I said it is ironic.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Which part of... "CCFC owe SISU £30m+ and SISU want it back" Didn't you understand?
Mind you, Ray Ranson is Quoted "CCFC are one of only three Football Clubs not in debt" Yet not long after this f**king mahooosive lie did we all find out the debt had been restructured into(I think) bonds. Which however you look at it meant we STILL owed those lying ba***rds ££30m+

There isn't evidence that SISU want or expect that debt or figure to be repaid. There are reasons why it sits on the accounts which OSB has explained numerous times.

 

[Bruce the Boot]

The club effectively "owing" the owners money is different. Its not with creditors who are demanding the repayments, which leads towards problems like administration etc.

That is the most amazing piece of shite I have heard in decades !

 

[ClarkeZ]

Which part of... "CCFC owe SISU £30m+ and SISU want it back" Didn't you understand?
Mind you, Ray Ranson is Quoted "CCFC are one of only three Football Clubs not in debt" Yet not long after this f**king mahooosive lie did we all find out the debt had been restructured into(I think) bonds. Which however you look at it meant we STILL owed those lying ba***rds ££30m+

The vague blanket use of "sisu". Hence why I went on with the metaphor regarding putting money into your own business.
In fact you saying "SISU want it back" is on technicality, incorrect. The investors who lumped up the cash to SISU want it back it seems from OSB's post. Your comment didnt make logical sense.

 

[ClarkeZ]

That is the most amazing piece of shite I have heard in decades !

That was me, not Nick. And that was before I was corrected by OSB in where the finance had come from.

 

[italiahorse]

The creditors are to the owners Sconset & ARVO who are managed by their agents SISU on behalf of investors. Doesn't matter if it is "Owner" debt or not it is still a liability that impacts on the going concern of the group, is due for repayment, accrues interest, is secured on assets and forms a large obstacle to anyone wanting to acquire the club. The owners might be less likely to call it in than say HMRC but we should not rely on that - especially when it will be an investment not football finance decision[/QUOTE]

What is the loan that the interest is paid on, because in my thinking if it's the circa £50M owed to Sisu investors that is an 'okay' return?
Why would the investors not call the loan in and/or at least ask for the interest to be paid rather than accrued?

 

[Bruce the Boot]

That was me, not Nick. And that was before I was corrected by OSB in where the finance had come from.

Yes I know , I was so amazed that I read it wrong ! Sorry Nick , But you JS , do yourself a favour and delete it

 

[oldskyblue58]

Sorry about how the file looks. From SBS&L 2015 accounts

 

[martcov]

My old fella said to me the other day that he had heard that Sisu would want 70 million to sell up and move on and that balance sheet seems to prove it. All they are doing is trying to stay cash neutral, treading water suits their game while they pin their hopes at getting a return on their judicial reviews. They are a business that will only invest if they can see a return so that counts us out. The only time that this club will get a new owner is if they liquidate and some one picks up the pieces. The fact that the club is failing will only contribute to their legal case in their eyes as it will be an increase in any possible damage's that they can apply for in the long run. They made a mistake buying us, if they would admit it and they are just letting it free wheel now.

Joy admitted it. She said she wasn't involved in the purchase and wouldn't have gone for it. She claimed she didn't know about CCFC until Dulux asked for several Million to keep the Club afloat.
We appeared to be stable for a short time last season...then the Stadium talks broke down and the Higgs Centre fell out of bed. The Butts has been put to bed by Millerchip ( with maybe CCC and Wasps gelingt he decision? ). CA hasn't done anything positive yet that we can point to as giving hope. A poor Start to the season, and here we go again - man the life boats....