Stability (53 Viewers)

[Nick]

Factual evidence required with a true extract from the meeting of Richardson and CCC about buying the Ricoh!...... Impasse I believe!

I don't think you are understanding, you are quoting about what is in a lease you haven't seen.

I am talking about a situation that happened, and you are trying to say it isn't for some reason. I am not quoting from the meeting like you are from the lease, I am saying that it was "discussed".

 

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[oldfiver]

Factual evidence required with a true extract from the meeting of Richardson and CCC about buying the Ricoh!...... Impasse I believe!

Ah I see you wont because I can't - interesting approach

 

[oldfiver]

It is a quote from the Telegraph and I would say that they had researched enough to avoid being charged with Libel/slander from CCC. BTW it looked very much like a "Flounce" to me.

I assume you are referring to this
"Another challenge could be restrictions on the existing Butts Park lease with Coventry City Council. The Telegraph reported in December that conditions on the lease currently only allow for a rugby club to operate at the venue."

That was CCC's view at the time but they have agreed it does not say that
What is reported since is that they WANTED that clause put in for them to agree to a transfer to the Rugby Club
Duggins has also said they would not impose that clause ( assuming they even could )

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

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10 key questions answered on Coventry City's Butts Park Arena ground share plans

• 16:59, 18 May 2016
• Updated 11:43, 19 May 2016
• By Simon Gilbert

Chief reporter Simon Gilbert looks at the major questions around a potential move to the city centre stadium

• Chief reporter Simon Gilbert looks at the major questions around a potential move to the city centre stadium
  
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Chief reporter Simon Gilbert looks at the major questions around a potential move to the city centre stadium

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Plans have been drawn up which could allow Coventry City to relocate to Butts Park Arena as part of a ground share deal with Coventry RFC.

The Telegraph broke the news this morning after Coventry RFC chairman Jon Sharp confirmed to us that talks had been held since the start of the year over a potential partnership.

However, the plans are at a very early stage and there will be a number of hurdles to overcome.

Here we look at the ins and outs of the proposals:

What are the plans?

Butts Park Arena, home of Coventry Rugby

Architects have drawn up proposals which could allow the 3,000 capacity Butts Park Arena to be expanded in order to accommodate the larger Coventry City crowds.

The plans could also include student accommodation, retail, community facilities and a gym.

How big could the stadium be?


AFLS+P

A previous architects' image for new Coventry City stadium

Coventry RFC chairman Jon Sharp says the ground could be expanded to 25,000 seats - but that both parties are working towards an aim of about 15,000 seats.

Land is limited at the site - which is less than eight acres - so proposals could include two tier stands, lowering the pitch and backing onto land next to the nearby rail track.

How long has this been in the pipeline?

Fans of Coventry City stage a protest outside Sixfields

Rumours of a possible ground share at The Butts have been circulating ever since the Sky Blues temporarily left the Ricoh Arena for Sixfields in 2013.

But Coventry RFC chairman Jon Sharp ruled out a ground share with CCFC as recently as December 2015.

He said then: “We talk to them, but we do not have any specific plans to work with them. I’m quite adamant about this.”

Today he confirmed talks had taken place since the start of this year.

What are the main obstacles?

Retirement flats being built behind Butts Park Arena

Coventry Rugby Properties LLP owns the 125-year lease from Coventry City Council for the Butts Park Arena site.

That long standing lease contains restrictions which mean the site can only currently be used by a rugby club.

Parking will be a huge headache in any planning application.

It remains to be seen whether regular buses and the proximity of the train station are strong enough mitigation for a lack of on-site parking.

There’s also the minor problem of the nearby retirement complex which will accommodate 350 elderly residents when it opens in July.

Could the council block the move?

Coventry Council House

The council owns the freehold of the stadium and there are long-standing restrictions on the lease which mean it can only be used by a rugby club.

Council officials would presumably need to sign off changes to the lease in order for CCFC to move into the site.

This looks like a potential legal battle waiting to happen.

Consideration of the actual plans is a different matter. The council’s planning committee is bound by planning law and can only act in line with official guidance.

If the council ignored planning laws to block an application it could face action from central government on appeal.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Or this statement....

Council Leader Statement

Coventry City Council Leader George Duggins has said that obstacles will nor be put in the way if Coventry City FC decide they want to move to the Butts Park Arena.

In a statement, Cllr Duggins said: “The ownership and lease position at the Butts is complicated. The council own the freehold of the site. The lease of the whole of the Butts site is held by a company Coventry Rugby Properties LLP, controlled by Chris Millerchip.

“This lease permits the ground to be used as a rugby football club and pitch and for other ‘leisure and sporting activities’.

“It is a requirement of this lease that Coventry RFC have a lease of the pitch and the east stand for a peppercorn.

"The Coventry RFC lease is controlled by Jon Sharp and the directors of the rugby club, is not for the whole of the site, is restricted to use for a rugby football club only and is at a peppercorn. This lease was put in place to protect the rugby club when it came out of liquidation in 2010.

“Jon Sharp has been in negotiation to acquire the Chris Millerchip lease. The council cannot unreasonably refuse consent to this transfer if the parties agree terms.

"He has also asked the council to vary the lease between the rugby club and the Millerchip lease which requires the council’s approval.

“Coventry RFC do not presently control the whole site. They shared their plan to develop a joint stadium with the council in April 2016.

"They were informed that because the development of a joint stadium was of public interest and that a request to change the leases that that would vary the protection for the rugby club, these were issues that would require formal consideration by the council and further information was requested to enable a report to be prepared.

“I want to clear up any confusion about the proposal to develop a joint stadium for rugby and football. I want to be really clear that the council will not put any obstacles in the way of this happening.

“Anything that requires our involvement including variations to the leases will be considered in the usual way - openly and transparently by members.

“But just to be clear the last contact we had with the rugby club about this proposal requested further information and this hasn’t been received.

“The development of a larger stadium would require planning permission and we have not received an application. But at the point that we do, this will be treated like any other application including looking at all of the associated issues like parking, traffic and the impact on neighbours.”

Ah I see you wont because I can't - interesting approach

 

[Nick]

What I don't get is, if it is limited to Rugby only...Why on earth would they try to add something to stop football??

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

What I don't get is, if it is limited to Rugby only...Why on earth would they try to add something to stop football??

Errrrmmm It seems I'm the only one researching here. Get your proof pal, I'm still waiting!

 

[Nick]

Errrrmmm It seems I'm the only one researching here. Get your proof pal, I'm still waiting!

Oh, I thought you were going to find it?

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

What I don't get is, if it is limited to Rugby only...Why on earth would they try to add something to stop football??

One more time, just for the lazy fuck that you are.... The restriction was put in place in 2010(Check it out) to protect CRFC when coming out of liquidation.

 

[Nick]

One more time, just for the lazy fuck that you are.... The restriction was put in place in 2010(Check it out) to protect CRFC when coming out of liquidation.

Yet it has nothing to do with what I said.

If it is only allowed to be Rugby there, why would they try to add a clause to block pro football? Why would they need to?

 

[chiefdave]

“This lease permits the ground to be used as a rugby football club and pitch and for other ‘leisure and sporting activities’.

So what you're saying then SBK is that the original restriction allowed for ‘leisure and sporting activities’. You could certainly argue CCFC playing there came under sporting activities. That will explain then why, as soon as the club started to explore a move to the Butts, the council moved to get the restriction changed to explicitly forbid professional football.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Tell me something.... Do you ever have a contract which you have to sign,(Sky TV/Mortgage etc) then, lets say 18 months later you receive a letter from that company saying your rental/interest rate has gone up to y from x. What would you call this?..... Perhaps, "Protecting your interests" Now having the ownership of the Freehold to BPA. and having done business in the past/still ongoing with SISU in which, up till now have had a JR kicked out of court three times. wouldn't you be inclined to do the same thing? It's called making your case "Watertight"
PS. Not saying I would have done this, but after 8+ years of shit from SISU. I can see why they did it.

 

[Nick]

Tell me something.... Do you ever have a contract which you have to sign,(Sky TV/Mortgage etc) then, lets say 18 months later you receive a letter from that company saying your rental/interest rate has gone up to y from x. What would you call this?..... Perhaps, "Protecting your interests" Now having the ownership of the Freehold to BPA. and having done business in the past/still ongoing with SISU in which, up till now have had a JR kicked out of court three times. wouldn't you be inclined to do the same thing? It's called making your case "Watertight"

So they were blocking the club from any chance of going to the Butts then? The same thing that you have been going mental about for hours saying they didn't?

 

[chiefdave]

Do you ever have a contract which you have to sign,(Sky TV/Mortgage etc) then, lets say 18 months later you receive a letter from that company saying your rental/interest rate has gone up to y from x

Yes, and then you either phone up and get a discount or leave. Not sure what you're point is here.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

So they were blocking the club from any chance of going to the Butts then? The same thing that you have been going mental about for hours saying they didn't?

Didn't CCC say it was a "Fishing exercise" to gleen information?... Oh wait a minute. Isn't that what SISU did a couple of years ago by offering to buy the Ricoh but with proviso's installed when they new Wasps had made an offer to buy without "Any strings attached"? Wasn't that to "Gleen information" to add bullets against CCC in the JR? Double standards" spring to mind guys? Don't let that cloud your judgement though

 

[Nick]

Didn't CCC say it was a "Fishing exercise" to gleen information?... Oh wait a minute. Isn't that what SISU did a couple of years ago by offering to buy the Ricoh but with proviso's installed when they new Wasps had made an offer to buy without "Any strings attached"? Wasn't that to "Gleen information" to add bullets against CCC in the JR? Double standards" spring to mind guys?

What are you going off about now? Where are you trying to take it?

You just said they did it to protect their interests because of SISU and court cases? So indicates they purposely did it to prevent CCFC from being able to move there, which is the point you have been arguing against.

Still, you can get proven wrong and move onto the next point.

 

[chiefdave]

Isn't that what SISU did a couple of years ago by offering to buy the Ricoh but with proviso's installed when they new Wasps had made an offer to buy without "Any strings attached"?

Are you talking about the offer to buy Higgs share after Wasps had purchased the councils share? The 'strings' were that the deal was independently checked as Wasps had access to ACL information that hadn't been made available to others.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

What are you going off about now? Where are you trying to take it?

You just said they did it to protect their interests because of SISU and court cases? So indicates they purposely did it to prevent CCFC from being able to move there, which is the point you have been arguing against.

Still, you can get proven wrong and move onto the next point.

The point is numbnuts, the condition was already in place(2010) it was as has already been stated a "Fishing exercise" As for getting "Proven wrong" and moving on to the next point.... I'm still waiting for proof(From the original argument about Wasps and CCC secretly meeting about buying the Ricoh) Remember???

 

[Nick]

Are you talking about the offer to buy Higgs share after Wasps had purchased the councils share? The 'strings' were that the deal was independently checked as Wasps had access to ACL information that hadn't been made available to others.

And the community stuff remember..

Not to mention it was already a done deal to Wasps for 100%.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Are you talking about the offer to buy Higgs share after Wasps had purchased the councils share? The 'strings' were that the deal was independently checked as Wasps had access to ACL information that hadn't been made available to others.

NO! you well know I was talking about the"Fishing exercise" when offering to buy the original CCC share. Which has been shown only to get information for the JR.

 

[Nick]

The point is numbnuts, the condition was already in place(2010) it was as has already been stated a "Fishing exercise" As for getting "Proven wrong" and moving on to the next point.... I'm still waiting for proof(From the original argument about Wasps and CCC secretly meeting about buying the Ricoh) Remember???

Council QC said the council produced a financial forecast to see if ACL could service the council loan without any rent from the football club.
He said another factor to consider was that the tenancy of Wasps had been waiting in the wings for “some time”.
Justice Treacy asks for evidence to show Wasps was in the wings at the time of the loan.
Sisu QC says the document with reference to this was from March 2012.
Council QC admits he may have been overdoing it to say it was “in the wings”, “but certainly it had been mentioned”.

The council used the fact that Wasps had been lined up as a defence to justify the loan.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

And the community stuff remember..

Not to mention it was already a done deal to Wasps for 100%.

I'm still waiting for the proof Nick.... "Put up or shut up" All you ever do is a Grenduffy... Always answering questions with a question. you're just a troll, Ironic really that you own the forum. I think your ambition in life is to cause shitfests, then keep "Stoking the fire" ,Fair play mate you're the fucking undisputed King at that:finger:

 

[Nick]

I'm still waiting for the proof Nick.... "Put up or shut up" All you ever do is a Grenduffy... Always answering questions with a question. you're just a troll, Ironic really that you own the forum. I think your ambition in life is to cause shitfests, then keep "Stoking the fire" ,Fair play mate you're the fucking undisputed King at that:finger:

It is just a shame you aren't the king of reading, you could add it to the title of king of overreaction?

 

[skyblueinBaku]

it was as has already been stated a "Fishing exercise"

The "fishing exercise" statement only came about after there was an outcry (at least there was on here) about the attempt to block CCFC playing at the Butts. I believe that the timing of that statement was because it was an "arse covering" exercise.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Hope you're all reading this.... I apologise. Like I said If I'm wrong I will "Man up" Awaiting the time one of you are wrong. Lets see if you lot can "Man up"

 

[oldfiver]

The "fishing exercise" statement only came about after there was an outcry (at least there was on here) about the attempt to block CCFC playing at the Butts. I believe that the timing of that statement was because it was an "arse covering" exercise.

I think it coincided with the lawyers telling them there were no grounds for enforce a restrictive covenant on the transfer

 

[Nick]

Hope you're all reading this.... I apologise. Like I said If I'm wrong I will "Man up" Awaiting the time one of you are wrong. Lets see if you lot can "Man up"

I am the first to do it, and fair play to you. I think I have even apologised to you a couple of times.

 

[Nick]

The "fishing exercise" statement only came about after there was an outcry (at least there was on here) about the attempt to block CCFC playing at the Butts. I believe that the timing of that statement was because it was an "arse covering" exercise.

I think it coincided with the lawyers telling them there were no grounds for enforce a restrictive covenant on the transfer

Is that when Millerchip got a phone call?

 

[oldfiver]

Hope you're all reading this.... I apologise. Like I said If I'm wrong I will "Man up" Awaiting the time one of you are wrong. Lets see if you lot can "Man up"

We all understand that and accept your view and right to opinion.
However, you must also accept that some people may also be right but cannot just pull documents etc out of a file to post on here. If I wanted to lie about something it would not be if a WASP said something in 2012 or 2013 or 2014.
I would say I had a Chinese Investor waiting in the wings to buy the whole sheebang including WASPS
Now lighten up and move on

 

[oldfiver]

Is that when Millerchip got a phone call?

Hope they reversed the charges if it was !

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

We all understand that and accept your view and right to opinion.
However, you must also accept that some people may also be right but cannot just pull documents etc out of a file to post on here. If I wanted to lie about something it would not be if a WASP said something in 2012 or 2013 or 2014.
I would say I had a Chinese Investor waiting in the wings to buy the whole sheebang including WASPS
Now lighten up and move on

I know what you mean. The times I've been told... Not asked for "Link" is unbelieveable. Grendel, believe it or not, being the biggest culprit. He will also run away when proven wrong, and will never apologise. that, as they say, is a fact

 

[hill83]

Hope you're all reading this.... I apologise. Like I said If I'm wrong I will "Man up" Awaiting the time one of you are wrong. Lets see if you lot can "Man up"

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Lmfao. good one isn't it hahahaha

 

[fernandopartridge]

Lmfao. good one isn't it hahahaha

Is that really you?