TM contract renewal (19 Viewers)

[Martin180]

Sorry he massively under achieved in a very weak league last season....I genuinely thought we should be play offs minimum last year and he blew best chance in ages.
This year a bit trickier but he should be at least where we were last year or hit the road! Think he will walk if nowhere near play offs near end of the season anyhow!

So he turned a squad who missed out on relegation on the last day to leading the league for vast chunks in the space of 6-9 months and he under achieved ? Have a day off will you

 

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[Martin180]

Whether I go to away games or not is irrelevant. That squad with the start it had should have finished top 6, the relegation form in the 23 games following the Gillingham win cost us as did our away form. A lot of that is down to mowbrays lack of plan b and failing to come up with a suitable plan to stop the rot and get results away from home - I put that at the managers door more than the squad not being good enough. The league wasnt that strong last season apart from Wigan, and he'll struggle to get a better chance of promotion.

I would understand your beef if I had said that squad should have won the league, that would have been unrealistic, but given the start and thr players in the squad it really should have finished top 6.

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No a lot of that was the dependence of 3-4 key players who weren't used to playing a whole league season , lack of depth too the squad and a concerted push by the owners in January to ensure promotion .The fact we had to sign Henderson and Ramage shows the lack of investment and foresight by the owners

 

[SkyblueBazza]

No kidding!

I am talking within the squad...someone or something is severely impacting in a negative way

...onwards & upwards PUSB

 

[vow]

I think our budget is about 10th in the league.
So if he finishes 10th I would rather him have another year to build and add to the likes of....

Reid
Jones
Rose
RCC
Turnball
Stokes
Vlad
Bigi
Willis

With our budget the only way we will get there is if a manager is given time to build

I hope thats the plan, as this so called 2 year project isnt long enough, so many players left in the summer clear out, its got to be a 3 year project at least to see us competing properly. and thats what I'm prepared to wait for, as the roots are just now being sewn.

 

[singers_pore]

He has to either equal or better last seasons final position otherwise he's failed IMO.

Is TM's budget this season equal to or better than last season's budget?

 

[Ranjit Bhurpa]

I think our budget is about 10th in the league.
So if he finishes 10th I would rather him have another year to build and add to the likes of....

Reid
Jones
Rose
RCC
Turnball
Stokes
Vlad
Bigi
Willis

With our budget the only way we will get there is if a manager is given time to build

I don't get the fixation with budget size and the implication that it is the sole indicator of success or otherwise. Should the teams with the 4 smallest budgets just give up in August? Did Leicester have the biggest budget in Premier League last season?

 

[stupot07]

Is TM's budget this season equal to or better than last season's budget?

Pretty sure they said it was about the same this season, he just hasn't spent it all yet. .


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[stupot07]

I don't get the fixation with budget size and the implication that it is the sole indicator of success or otherwise. Should the teams with the 4 smallest budgets just give up in August? Did Leicester have the biggest budget in Premier League last season?

Yep, plenty of teams have got in tbr top 6 or been promoted from league one on smaller budgets than ours, bar 2-3 teams there won't be the huge difference between the majority of the clubs budgets. Its how you use it, and then get the best out of those resources.

It seems a ready made excuse for failure.

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[dongonzalos]

I don't get the fixation with budget size and the implication that it is the sole indicator of success or otherwise. Should the teams with the 4 smallest budgets just give up in August? Did Leicester have the biggest budget in Premier League last season?

No it's just a reliable barometer.
Most teams finish in and around where their budgets have them.

The very odd team such as Leicester, Yeovil, Burton break the trend.

However for me for TM to have performed badly enough at his job to be sacked or asked to no longer continue I would want him to perform below his budget.

If our owners want 6th or above then I want them to provide the resources for 6th or above.

If they don't then they can't very well get rid of a bloke for doing as expected.

 

[dongonzalos]

Pretty sure they said it was about the same this season, he just hasn't spent it all yet. .


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I take they have put another loan in then.
As we got the break even point wrong previously and there was a short fall.
I think it is down a bit on last season because of this.

 

[dongonzalos]

Is TM's budget this season equal to or better than last season's budget?

Or a bit less than

 

[steve82]

I'd like to see TM stay, unless performances and points are hard to come over the season in which case TM may just be happy to leave.
I just don't see the point in a new manager coming in clearing the decks again and trying to rebuild his own team of players. Stick with the same manager who clearly has a fair reputation in the game at a higher level and a good sauce of contacts. JC proves his worth too with his former job with England youth. It's the most stable we've been for a while and he's working with a lot of youth players, maybe partly through choice but to a degree in areas of the pitch not. There is times were gonna collapse and times where we will surprise and look solid.
One thing I'd like TM to do and I've said it on anther thread is lower his demands in what he sees as a suitable player. I think over the summer his targets were possibly too high a profile player to what we could realistically go in for... This maybe because agents and players lead him on thinking we had a solid chance to use us against other teams for a contact. Last summer he didn't have much in the way of knowledge of players at this level with reports on players and went down the loan option which gave us a early harvest. This summer perhaps he was too ambitious. Just maybe next summer of building players around Turnbull, JJ and other players with all the reports on players and lowering his targets a little we may get nearer a side to challenge.

 

[stupot07]

I take they have put another loan in then.
As we got the break even point wrong previously and there was a short fall.
I think it is down a bit on last season because of this.

You're forgetting STs and Matchday ticket prices have increased, yes attendance is currently lower but they will pick up. There's also a couple of guaranteed extra cup games, plus extra prize money for jpt.

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[dongonzalos]

You're forgetting STs and Matchday ticket prices have increased, yes attendance is currently lower but they will pick up. There's also a couple of guaranteed extra cup games, plus extra prize money for jpt.

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The break even point was 14k fans a match.

Do you think the rise in ticket sales costs has brought that break even point down to around 10k?
Also that it has covered the fall in the amount we get from FB due to the lowering of the crowd.

If it had then fair enough I could see how we have the same budget.

However I don't think it has and I think our budget will be around about 10th in the legume just my opinion.

 

[stupot07]

The break even point was 14k fans a match.

Do you think the rise in ticket sales costs has brought that break even point down to around 10k?
Also that it has covered the fall in the amount we get from FB due to the lowering of the crowd.

If it had then fair enough I could see how we have the same budget.

However I don't think it has and I think our budget will be around about 10th in the legume just my opinion.

The break even point was based on 14k based on STs 33% cheaper and matchday tickets cheaper. No I think the brrakeven will be back to 11k as it was originally supposed to be last season the increase in ST and matchday prices and matchday packages should mean 11k is correct this season. It will only take one or 2 bigger gates to get back to 11k average - we've only had 2 home league games.

F&b are about £60k last it wouldn't make a huge difference if we got £5k less..

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[Oz Howie]

Burton and Leicester broke the trend because of the one thing our supporters don't appreciate and won't support and that's stability! TM needs at least another season to continue a rebuild that has barely started.

 

[stupot07]

Burton and Leicester broke the trend because of the one thing our supporters don't appreciate and won't support and that's stability! TM needs at least another season to continue a rebuild that has barely started.

That was Ranieri's first season at Leicester, Burton had a change of manager mid season.

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[stupot07]

And although it might read like it, I'm actually not calling for his head. But to me, and yes this maybe too simplistic, mowbray is either

a) a good manager and one of thr best in the league - in which case he should be able to wheel and deal and get the team playing above its budget level

Or

B) he just an average league one manager who can only achieve par on his budget - in which case why would we want to accept this.

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[Grendel]

No it's just a reliable barometer.
Most teams finish in and around where their budgets have them.

The very odd team such as Leicester, Yeovil, Burton break the trend.

However for me for TM to have performed badly enough at his job to be sacked or asked to no longer continue I would want him to perform below his budget.

If our owners want 6th or above then I want them to provide the resources for 6th or above.

If they don't then they can't very well get rid of a bloke for doing as expected.

So Mowbray in your view is a bang average manager incapable of influencing the situation? I thought you said he was better than most managers in this league?

 

[dongonzalos]

The break even point was based on 14k based on STs 33% cheaper and matchday tickets cheaper. No I think the brrakeven will be back to 11k as it was originally supposed to be last season the increase in ST and matchday prices and matchday packages should mean 11k is correct this season. It will only take one or 2 bigger gates to get back to 11k average - we've only had 2 home league games.

F&b are about £60k last it wouldn't make a huge difference if we got £5k less..

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A bit of success and we will definitely get bigger crowds.

Our average league home attendence at the moment is around 9700.

 

[dongonzalos]

So Mowbray in your view is a bang average manager incapable of influencing the situation? I thought you said he was better than most managers in this league?

I think he is capable of of getting us promotion over time if he is allowed the time.
I think last season he did exactly as the resources he was given allowed him.
He didn't over achieve he didn't under achieve.
It felt like he failed to many because of how the season actually went.

I think if he does the sane again this season and I see see another few decent signings added to the squad as our own players.

Then I would like to see him get another two years. During which time I would be confident we would get in the play offs with a team based mainly on our own players. Where the loanees are the icing on the cake not the cake itself

 

[steve82]

That was Ranieri's first season at Leicester, Burton had a change of manager mid season.

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Both burton and Leicester had stability on the pitch where it counts. Leicester you could argue was a element of luck, new manager comes in hits the ground running, a few new additions to the team, no real injury issues or suspensions, a payer of the year, goals, confidence and importantly the fans behind them.
Burton again had stability this time on and off the pitch, working to there means. Confidence of the back of there league 2 title that continued. A settled side, yeah sure gary rowett left to join Birmingham but they brought in a experienced manager in nigel cough. A man who had spent years at the club before, knew the club well and infrastructure. I don't believe he changed the team just steered the team on the path it was already on.
Bottom line is stability on the pitch.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

No a lot of that was the dependence of 3-4 key players who weren't used to playing a whole league season.

I agree with the rest of your post but not this point. They're professional footballers...from when they were young, the majority of them will have played football non-stop to make it to the professional ranks. The bare minimum they should be able to do is play 40-50 games a season. They're trained professionals.




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[skybluetony176]

So Mowbray in your view is a bang average manager incapable of influencing the situation? I thought you said he was better than most managers in this league?

So did you. Didn't stop you leading the calls with endless amounts of thread's stating he was a failure and needed sacking last season.

People in glass houses...

 

[Martin180]

I agree with the rest of your post but not this point. They're professional footballers...from when they were young, the majority of them will have played football non-stop to make it to the professional ranks. The bare minimum they should be able to do is play 40-50 games a season. They're trained professionals.




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Agreed , my comment was mainly regarding Armstrong and Murphy and how reliant we became on them

 

[steve82]

I agree with the rest of your post but not this point. They're professional footballers...from when they were young, the majority of them will have played football non-stop to make it to the professional ranks. The bare minimum they should be able to do is play 40-50 games a season. They're trained professionals.




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Think you hit the nail on the side of the head. There training professionals. Young lads on loan away from there stable environments of friends, family and comfortable surroundings that's been home for years.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

Think you hit the nail on the side of the head. There training professionals. Young lads on loan away from there stable environments of friends, family and comfortable surroundings that's been home for years.

I know it's not a like for like comparison, but I could play 30 games a season, unfit and with no training whilst holding down a full time job when I played. I know I wasn't playing league football and the standard was vastly different but it's all relevant. They train day in day out.

Missing their mum or their mates won't affect their aerobic ability over 90 minutes, 40-50 times a season when they work on fitness throughout said season.

 

[Martin180]

I know it's not a like for like comparison, but I could play 30 games a season, unfit and with no training whilst holding down a full time job when I played. I know I wasn't playing league football and the standard was vastly different but it's all relevant. They train day in day out.

Missing their mum or their mates won't affect their aerobic ability over 90 minutes, 40-50 times a season when they work on fitness throughout said season.

Players do burn out though especially young players early on in their careers

 

[Skyblueweeman]

Players do burn out though especially young players early on in their careers

That's when they should be at their fittest!


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[Gazolba]

Last season we should have got promoted with the squad we had. It was our one big chance.
I think the Joe Cole 'experiment' cost us promotion. It upset the team at a critical moment.
All we achieved was to get him fit so he could make money in the USA.
I don't know whose decision it all was, but they are responsible.

 

[Hadji10]

I'm starting to think we're cursed, I can't remember the last manager who consistently signs good players - other than that I think generally he's a good manager he overachieved last season and I believe he can again this season, albeit once we get out of this slump


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Finishing 8th in league one is overachieving, is that what we've become? Embarrassing.

Mowbray is a bang average manager, another manager we've bought in on a downward curve in his career. When was his last good season in charge? 07/08?

 

[Hadji10]

You're talking bollocks. Why should that squad finished top 6? Great frontline and good at home but you don't go away do you?

Because it fucking spanked everyone Aug-November. From Jan-now we would be in the relegation places, the squad on paper is far better than that and you know it, the side has been mis-managed by Mowbray for months now.

 

[Hadji10]

No not for me. The man is fighting an uphill battle from the start. We are lucky to have TM IMO and he is doing his best on what he can. He saved us from a certain relegation and you say with the squad he has last year well he made that squad and signed them up.

We need to kick on I agree but I'm sick of the new managers at ccfc so stick with him. Unless he fails and keeps losing then fair enough. He needs time. Highest finish in many a year has to be classed as an improvement.

Lucky to have TM? You fucking insane? His record is no better than any manager we've had since being in this division.

Saved us from certain relegation? When he took us over we were 18th, with 3 months of the season left, 64 minutes into the Crawley game we were relegated to league 2.

 

[Hadji10]

No a lot of that was the dependence of 3-4 key players who weren't used to playing a whole league season , lack of depth too the squad and a concerted push by the owners in January to ensure promotion .The fact we had to sign Henderson and Ramage shows the lack of investment and foresight by the owners

WE HAVE NO FUCKING MONEY, HOW CAN WE SPEND FUCKING MONEY????

 

[Hadji10]

That's when they should be at their fittest!


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Burnout is often a mental block.