SCG Meeting Minutes (5 Viewers)

Nick

Administrator
Who got told off for posting on here!! :angelic:

Present:
Pat Abel (PA), Chris Anderson (CA), Adam Brearley (AB), Shelagh Brock (SHB), Steve Brown (SBR), David Busst (DB), Declan Connolly (DC), Darren Davies (DD), Tim Fisher (TF) (via telephone conference), Mark Hornby (MH), CJ Joiner (CJ), Jan Mokrzycki (JM), Chris O’Neill (CO), Nicki Pollard (NP), Tynan Scope (TS), Ray Stephens (RS), Jonathan Strange, chairman (JS), Jodie Turner (JT), Bruce Walker (BW), Peter Ward (PW)

Apologies for Absence:
Apologies were received from Steve Barnett, Amrik Bhabra, Jim Brown, Michael Garlick, Sandra Garlick, Dale Hayward, Kevin Heffernan, Colin Henderson, Chris McGrath, Pat Raybould and Mark Venus.

Confidentiality
JS read out the following statement regarding confidentiality:

There must be an absolute commitment by each of us that nothing said or discussed at this or any future meeting can be published until after the official release time of the minutes. Whatever our interpretation hitherto, we must insist for everybody's sake that this is strictly observed.

This is not a fresh proposal. This is from the minutes of the SCG meeting of 22 May 2014. Nobody at that meeting demurred, and it has remained the SCG's stated policy ever since.

Within hours of the last meeting, however, one member published detailed information on the internet of what Mark Venus had just said. This was without consulting me, let alone seeking the permission of our guest. I had assured Mark that he would have the opportunity to amend the minutes before anything was published.

Three weeks later, I received an entirely unapologetic e-mail from the individual responsible. He claimed he was continuing a long established practice of posting reports about meetings on Sky Blues Talk. He suggested that he had 'picked up the baton for this' from a predecessor. This predecessor had actually resigned from the SCG on 1 April 2014. That is to say seven weeks before our colleague was party to the commitment you have in front of you.

As Sandra Garlick reminds us, everyone attending a meeting should have the opportunity to see how their opinions have been stated in the official minutes and given the opportunity to amend or remove if that information is misconstrued or sensitive. The only reason attendees and guests are so open at meetings is that they know they will have an opportunity to visit the minutes. Club representatives have shared information with us on the premise that they have the opportunity to remove any commercially sensitive material. No member of this group has yet been exempted from this understanding.

This is about much more, though, than details of policy or approach. It is about trust and judgement, of respect for personal integrity. Without such things, this group is nothing.

Our friend went on to say that he had then been in contact with Mark Venus and Chris Anderson to explain the situation. 'They are satisfied that the matter is now resolved,' he told me. Perhaps I could invite the football club to comment?

TF said that what happened was completely inappropriate. Mark Venus felt very let down and hoodwinked. TF wanted it put on record that it was not OK for members to leak things and expect that the football club will just shrug their shoulders and say it’s OK. It’s simply wrong; the person in question let down everyone in the room. Mark Venus won’t be attending future meetings – his trust in the group has gone.

CA added that it can only work if the people representing the club who attend these meetings feel that what they are saying is being treated in confidence. It will be hard to re-establish trust, the football club will be more cautious. The media environment in Coventry is far from friendly towards the football club and we don’t need confidential information being leaked across this platform. True fans of Coventry City FC will do all they can to support the club.

JS asked the person in question to consider himself and his position on the group.

Chairman’s Report
JS read out the following statement regarding the SCG:

I want to say a few words about the SCG, about what it is and about what it is not. The SCG is a consultation group. It is not and never has been a protest campaign group.
It is certainly not the function of the SCG to commission support amongst its members for a campaign against the owners of the football club. And if any member wishes to propose otherwise, he may first consider it appropriate to consult me as the elected chairman.

As the elected chairman, I will then acquaint myself with the opinion of every individual in this group including our colleagues from the football club. If I am convinced that there is an overwhelming demand for a modification to our Terms of Reference, I will then put it on the agenda once it has been possible to give due notice to every member.

However, we need to ask ourselves two questions. Why should club employees continue to give up their time for us if it is to consult over ridding them of the very owners on whom they are dependent and to whom they owe a fiduciary responsibility? And is the club really reliant on the SCG for making it aware of what fans think about the owners?

I notice that there has also been an attempt to conduct a questionnaire through the group about 'just how many fans we represent'. Let me quote from the minutes of the SCG meeting of 22 April 2015:
SBR said he does not claim to represent any group of supporters and never has. He represents himself...

That hits the nail on the head. We are a representative group of individual supporters consulting on matters of mutual interest and concern to both the football club and all who follow it. We provide a link between individuals, organisations or demographic groups and the club. Every member of an organisation or group, however, does not necessarily share the same views. That is why this is primarily a Supporters' Consultative Group, not a Supporters Organisations' Consultative Group.

The minutes to each of the last six SCG meetings have been published on average within six working days. They are accessible to anyone on this planet with internet access. And anyone with internet access can also easily discover details about the purpose of the group, information about its individual members and the contact e-mail address - an e-mail address, incidentally, to which no-one has ever failed to receive a cogent response. The challenge for the SCG, therefore, is not one of inaccessibility; it is one of misperception.

The SCG does not presume to take decisions on behalf of supporters. It has no executive responsibility. What it does is to seek answers to questions for the benefit of all concerned. There is no mystery to that. Anyone is welcome to ask questions. And there are crucial questions to be asked and answered about budgets and balance sheets, car parking, where we play and everything from toilet rolls to transfers to ticketing.

‘We want SISU out!’ is a statement; it is not a basis for consultation.”

Chris O’Neill was in attendance with regards to safety. PR had forwarded some questions from Paul McKay but CO felt they were not of relevant consideration to the meeting, but he did confirm that ACL own the safety certificate for the stadium. SBR met with CO last year regarding stewarding and feels the stewarding situation is 100% better this season. He feels the stewards are now there to help, rather than to police. JS proposed thanks to Dave Morris. CO thanked SBR for his comments – it was their intention to change things for the better this year. He admitted there is still a way to go on the customer care front but is confident that this will improve even further as the season progresses.

On behalf of Pat Raybould who was not in attendance, JS read out the following statement:

“Thank you to everyone who supported Amy Louise’s ‘brave the shave’ in the family zone before the Northampton game. She has so far raised £1359 to go to Macmillan Cancer Support and her hair has been sent to the Little Princess Trust who make wigs for children. Special thanks to CCFPA for helping with the event. On the same day, the zone received a cheque from Northampton Town Trust for £500. We have thanked them and would like to say a huge thank you to the Sky Blue Trust for choosing the zone as a recipient, along with the Alzheimer’s Society, for this generation donation."
 

Nick

Administrator
Ticketing
CA introduced Shelagh Brock, who has re-joined the club as ticket office assistant. She is doing a terrific job of being the face of the ticket office – she is an absolute gem.

JS asked CA if all our academy players, not just the elite ones, receive two tickets for each first team home game. CA confirmed that they all get two tickets for each game and this has been the case for many years. JS added that this is positive PR and could be publicised. CJ asked if it was possible to extend this to DB’s SBITC kids; DB stated that they do get tickets for three fixtures a season, adding that there was great support from the club around this.

At the last meeting a question was raised asking if there would be a way on the system to upgrade concessionary tickets to adult tickets should the concession be unable to attend (i.e. evening games) – with only the difference being paid. MH confirmed that this is possible and fans would need to go to the ticket office to upgrade – they would be given a paper ticket and the season ticket be disabled for that game.
CJ asked if cash turnstiles are being kept – AB confirmed they would be for the foreseeable future.

CJ was in the match day ticket office queue earlier this season and calculated that it took over two minutes per transaction (SHB said it took a minute for a straightforward cash transaction; 1½ minutes for a straightforward card transaction – but not all transactions are straightforward. and this might put off fans deciding to go to the game on the day. She added that the Ticketmaster staff have been brilliant. CA said that, as a society, we are becoming more and more cashless.

Nine or ten League One clubs no longer operate cash turnstiles at all. There is also the issue of the club knowing who is attending games and having information on them so it can contact them and target them in future. Some fans do not read the news or social media and expect to turn up ten minutes before kick-off and to walk in so it is felt these changes need to be made more gradually, to let fans get used to the idea before implementing it. JS added that fans are used to paying over the turnstile for minor cup games.

RS asked if card readers could be used for ticket transaction but TS said this would still be an issue with regards to data capture. SBR suggested letting it run for a few weeks and addressing it again at the next meeting - there are bound to be teething problems so we need to let it settle. CA said the club have received a lot of feedback and it has improved greatly, the error rate is minimal. Fans are unsure still over what is our responsibility and what is Ticketmaster’s – season tickets not arriving was not the club’s fault but it was dealt with. JS said that the improvement in the ticketing situation was worthy of publicity.

Car Parking
RS raised an issue he has with car parking. He parks in Car Park C and is concerned there isn’t an area within the car park designated for season ticket holders, as they are the supporters who attend every game and should be given priority. He can’t walk too far or too fast so would appreciate having a designated area nearer to the ground for season ticket holders. He has contacted APCOA, who operate the car parks. They have said that, although he is not a blue badge holder, if he takes a copy of their email to him to the games he can park in a disabled space.

RS feels that it is wrong to park in a disabled space when he is not a blue badge holder. Although someone else suggested that the car park spaces are numbered, it was agreed that designated spaces were not possible to steward. RS reiterated that he only wanted an area for season ticket holders, not a space. TS said that he will talk to them about the disabled bay being for blue badge holders only and if designated areas are feasible. Replying to JS, TS has already raised the price discrepancy between what Coventry City supporters pay compared to Wasps fans/people attending events at the Ricoh.

Matters Arising
At the last meeting it was stated that the ticket office at the Butts is moving to the rugby club ticket office by 8th August at the latest – this has yet to happen. AB said there were delays on the rugby club side; there are no windows as yet so the club are holding off until everything is finished.

The print at home tickets option wasn’t working at the last meeting – this has now been resolved.

Match packages have now been finalised and details of the 6 and 20 match packages have been released today. We are also finalising details around 19-15 match tickets, and then the half season ticket, where the campaign will start in November.

An issue was raised at previous meetings around stewarding at away games, where at some grounds they are not enforcing fans sitting in the correct seats. This was an issue again at Swindon at the first game of the season. CO said that all the club can do is to liaise with the safety officers at away grounds. JS asked whether this is something the EFL can coordinate over. CO said that if it is a major issue it can be raised at the safety officers’ conference. TS added that our own fans do not always help the situation by not sitting in their allocated seats. BW also added that it is only really an issue when the ground is full to capacity, which is rarely the case. It has been a particular concern at Swindon the last two seasons. If we sell out, or come close to selling out, that is when the safety officers need to liaise.

Academy
TF confirmed the club has been looking to arrange a meeting for a technical discussion with all parties concerned including Coventry Sports Foundation, Wasps, the EFL and FA. We will need to ascertain whether a kicking barn will work for academy use. TF is looking forward to the start of these discussions. It should then become clear whether the academy’s tenure at Allard Way can continue or whether we need to find a contingency.

CA added that we are proud of the boys who come through our academy. It is a great positive for the club and we continue to be committed to retaining our Category 2 Academy status. It is the right thing for local boys to be playing for their local club and have a pathway to the professional ranks. A high proportion of our first team squad have come through the academy and are genuinely good footballers, Tony Mowbray wouldn’t play them if he didn’t feel they were good enough. The academy works and bears fruit – this is the right thing for the football club. Hopefully the discussions will ensure the academy can continue in some form or another. Everyone is aware of the value of the academy to the community. We mustn’t lose sight of that.

It is an audit year for the academy so it is a particularly sensitive time and we want to ensure we get it right. This is undertaken by a Belgian independent company called Double Pass who work on behalf of the Premier League and the EFL. They will visit the academy and go through everything including coaching qualifications, facilities, the education of our boys etc. They will then give feedback and grade us. Having uncertainty over facilities is a novel situation and we need clarity around what facilities we will have available to us.

TF confirmed that the first meeting should be next week, probably Wednesday. The meeting with the EFL and FA will be the following week.
 

Nick

Administrator
TF said that what happened was completely inappropriate. Mark Venus felt very let down and hoodwinked. TF wanted it put on record that it was not OK for members to leak things and expect that the football club will just shrug their shoulders and say it’s OK. It’s simply wrong; the person in question let down everyone in the room. Mark Venus won’t be attending future meetings – his trust in the group has gone.

What was it that was posted on here he didn't like?
 

oucho

Well-Known Member
Urgh, what a windbag the chairman is. So full of himself and talking about the SCG like it's his own personal fiefdom. Someone needs to take him down a peg or two.
 

jimmyhillsfanclub

Well-Known Member
......just trying to read those notes has bored me half to death......think I'd have to set the fire alarm off if I was ever unfortunate enough to get stuck in one of the SCG meetings.....
 

oucho

Well-Known Member
......just trying to read those notes has bored me half to death......think I'd have to set the fire alarm off if I was ever unfortunate enough to get stuck in one of the SCG meetings.....
Try sitting in a meeting with the bloke as I have (not & SCG). Time stopped.
 

Nick

Administrator
I hate meetings.

It does my head in even more when people ask stupid questions and you just want to go.
 

Nick

Administrator
From the actual notes, sounds like positive stuff being done for the kids and with Dave busst.
 

jas365

Well-Known Member
Absolute farce of a group, as much use as a chocolate fireguard.

It sounds like the questions they are aloud to ask are about as challenging as Geoff Foster!
 

oucho

Well-Known Member
It's good that such a group exists but it appears to act as a platform for various members to hobnob with the club directors and try to convince other SCG members that they have status and influence. I'm not aware of any particular big things SCG has accomplished, other than campaigning to keep the "under the hill" stand at Sixfields open for home fans. LOL.
 

MusicDating

Euro 2016 Prediction League Champion!!
Good to see that someone has started asking questions around transport to and fro the Ricoh. That I cannot even catch a bus from the (main) station direct to the ground is a disgrace.
 

Joy Division

Well-Known Member
Can anybody tell me if any of the SGC fan members are under the age of 25 or thereabouts? I'm hoping our younger supporters (hello block 15) are being represented and having their voice heard.
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
the intention of the SCG is good but in practice if fails, and it fails because very few of its members represent or canvass the fans in general. It all seems a bit self important and as a body impotent. They seem very comfortable in their own importance doing nothing. There are good people on there like those involved in the JSB's but others like Strange contribute what exactly. If this is a meeting shop just to discuss match day issues then keep it at that and take away the pompous statements the Chairperson repeatedly keeps making. Just out of interest when Mr Strange makes his contribution on things like CWR does he make clear that what he spouts is his own thoughts or does it some how get to be allowed as the feelings of the fans group the SCG. I would have thought media appearances and content should have to be approved by the group ?

Waste of a good idea because it has been hijacked by self interest and self importance

the interesting bit for the fans is probably this ......

"RS highlighted that in the last meeting it was stated that Mowbray would have the same budget as last year; but it seems he has not received any of the James Maddison transfer money and that Turnbull was acquired with the money from the Vincelot sale. The manager is having to rely on free transfers, loans – and the academy kids who shouldn’t have to play week in, week out. RS feels the manager doesn’t have the tools to work with and feels the budget is too low.

TF responded to this by saying the club has to be self-sustainable and we need to keep it going and moving forward, without putting ourselves in a dangerous financial position. The playing budget is not in the 10% for the league but it is what it can be. We would love to have a big budget but we don’t have the revenues to match the costs. We do what we can with the means we have got. We have the disadvantage of not owning our own stadium and our only meaningful revenue coming from ticketing and retail. TF has discussed the situation with Mowbray. The first team are currently underperforming; this is deeply disappointing. It is felt they should be doing better. There has been an impact due to inflation in football players’ wages, average players are on high wages, and also the change in the loan system. We have lost players (Fleck and Cole) who we were unable to keep. There also have been players we sold or released, which were football decisions, not financial. The board trust the management to make the right decisions"

DD also sent an email regarding the Vincelot, Maddison and Sambou funds (which was sent on behalf of the forum he is part of) and asked if these funds have been made available to the squad. CA referred back to what was said earlier in the meeting about the club being self-sustainable. He stated that money is not taken out of the club. The recent figures floating around about Maddison have been over-inflated. We signed thirteen players over the summer. We have the makings of a good team that includes kids who are representing their local city and we want to be a club which brings through our youngsters. We don’t want to have to sell our players but sometimes we need to. We also have a great commercial team and are on top of ticketing now. We need the negativity to stop

That doesn't read like we have the same budget as last year, but it has the same excuses. It also hints that transfer monies are not available to TM. Just a thought but ticket income at CCFC is greater than many of the teams we compete against which softens the lack of F&B (which has substantial costs too), It also seems to confirm that the owners are not providing further funds. As for CA's comments - we had to sign 13 players because of the number of players we let go so 13 is no badge of honour, wasn't CA the one who was saying that the sale of Maddison guaranteed the future of CCFC for the coming seasons................

Until this group starts to represent fans and not themselves then there is little point in its being ................. that doesn't mean it has to campaign on anything, but it does have to represent fans in general not individuals. It needs to be led by someone interested in the club and representing fans as a whole not themselves.

Just my opinion to which I am entitled
 
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CJ_covblaze

Well-Known Member
Can anybody tell me if any of the SGC fan members are under the age of 25 or thereabouts? I'm hoping our younger supporters (hello block 15) are being represented and having their voice heard.

Dale Haywood and I are the two youngest there. I'm 28 and I think he's a couple of years younger. I do think we need someone younger on there. Can't be there myself as I'll be on the way back from Slovenia but I'll get it brought up at the next meeting.
 

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
What truth did MV speak that only the 'true' fans were supposed to hear. That he never got to censor so the non 'true' fans see a modified version of the truth?
 

wingy

Well-Known Member
Who got told off for posting on here!! :angelic:
Guess it was Jan
Who was the lad who used to post them up before 2014?
Andy??? Left the SCG as a result of the closed shop it became, think he's involved with the Nil Lamptey show now?
 

Joy Division

Well-Known Member
Dale Haywood and I are the two youngest there. I'm 28 and I think he's a couple of years younger. I do think we need someone younger on there. Can't be there myself as I'll be on the way back from Slovenia but I'll get it brought up at the next meeting.

Thank you CJ
 

oucho

Well-Known Member
the intention of the SCG is good but in practice if fails, and it fails because very few of its members represent or canvass the fans in general. It all seems a bit self important and as a body impotent. They seem very comfortable in their own importance doing nothing. There are good people on there like those involved in the JSB's but others like Strange contribute what exactly. If this is a meeting shop just to discuss match day issues then keep it at that and take away the pompous statements the Chairperson repeatedly keeps making. Just out of interest when Mr Strange makes his contribution on things like CWR does he make clear that what he spouts is his own thoughts or does it some how get to be allowed as the feelings of the fans group the SCG. I would have thought media appearances and content should have to be approved by the group ?

Waste of a good idea because it has been hijacked by self interest and self importance

the interesting bit for the fans is probably this ......

"RS highlighted that in the last meeting it was stated that Mowbray would have the same budget as last year; but it seems he has not received any of the James Maddison transfer money and that Turnbull was acquired with the money from the Vincelot sale. The manager is having to rely on free transfers, loans – and the academy kids who shouldn’t have to play week in, week out. RS feels the manager doesn’t have the tools to work with and feels the budget is too low.

TF responded to this by saying the club has to be self-sustainable and we need to keep it going and moving forward, without putting ourselves in a dangerous financial position. The playing budget is not in the 10% for the league but it is what it can be. We would love to have a big budget but we don’t have the revenues to match the costs. We do what we can with the means we have got. We have the disadvantage of not owning our own stadium and our only meaningful revenue coming from ticketing and retail. TF has discussed the situation with Mowbray. The first team are currently underperforming; this is deeply disappointing. It is felt they should be doing better. There has been an impact due to inflation in football players’ wages, average players are on high wages, and also the change in the loan system. We have lost players (Fleck and Cole) who we were unable to keep. There also have been players we sold or released, which were football decisions, not financial. The board trust the management to make the right decisions"

DD also sent an email regarding the Vincelot, Maddison and Sambou funds (which was sent on behalf of the forum he is part of) and asked if these funds have been made available to the squad. CA referred back to what was said earlier in the meeting about the club being self-sustainable. He stated that money is not taken out of the club. The recent figures floating around about Maddison have been over-inflated. We signed thirteen players over the summer. We have the makings of a good team that includes kids who are representing their local city and we want to be a club which brings through our youngsters. We don’t want to have to sell our players but sometimes we need to. We also have a great commercial team and are on top of ticketing now. We need the negativity to stop

That doesn't read like we have the same budget as last year, but it has the same excuses. It also hints that transfer monies are not available to TM. Just a thought but ticket income at CCFC is greater than many of the teams we compete against which softens the lack of F&B (which has substantial costs too), It also seems to confirm that the owners are not providing further funds. As for CA's comments - we had to sign 13 players because of the number of players we let go so 13 is no badge of honour, wasn't CA the one who was saying that the sale of Maddison guaranteed the future of CCFC for the coming seasons................

Until this group starts to represent fans and not themselves then there is little point in its being ................. that doesn't mean it has to campaign on anything, but it does have to represent fans in general not individuals. It needs to be led by someone interested in the club and representing fans as a whole not themselves.

Just my opinion to which I am entitled
So the Maddison money is not going out of the club, but it's pretty clear it's not part of the playing budget either. There's only one interpretation for that, and that's that the money is being spent on covering our ongoing operating losses. Paying the bills, paying the staff salaries, keeping the lights on.

Also I note TF's comments about how disappointing our position is and how we ought to be doing better. In a way it's no surprise but he said that to me after the 3-1 at Gillingham a few years ago, and Pressley got the bullet a couple of weeks afterwards.
 

oucho

Well-Known Member
Just to clear things up - yes it was me who has fallen foul of the SCG!!!!! Seems I will no longer be able to directly report answers to questions people raise on here but you will have to wait on the official club approved minutes to be published. Won't comment further in case I have to sit on the naughty step again..........
What was it that you disclosed that saw Venus flounce off? Was it something really important like the brand of shampoo the players use in the showers?
 

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
Just to clear things up - yes it was me who has fallen foul of the SCG!!!!! Seems I will no longer be able to directly report answers to questions people raise on here but you will have to wait on the official club approved minutes to be published. Won't comment further in case I have to sit on the naughty step again..........

Jan, thanks for asking the questions for us on here.
The only way the SCG was forming any credibility was the likes of yourself doing that and feeding back the answers.
Guess we will have to wait for the edited/censored answers instead. Not knowing if that's what they actually said at the time or not.

There is a lot to be said for transparency
 
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Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
Just to clear things up - yes it was me who has fallen foul of the SCG!!!!! Seems I will no longer be able to directly report answers to questions people raise on here but you will have to wait on the official club approved minutes to be published. Won't comment further in case I have to sit on the naughty step again..........

I think Jonathan is the naughty one.
 

georgehudson

Well-Known Member
so what can we glean from the scg meeting,
what has happened to the maddison money ?
when CA said it would be re-invested on the football side,
the BBC reported it as a £6m deal, are the BBC going to back, or refute that report ?
no bullshit, let's have some truths please
 

oucho

Well-Known Member
I have looked again at the 'offending' summary by Jan. It's here: http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/scg-meeting.66351/page-4#post-1124904

It seems to me that this is a highly useful piece of information for fans and it's hard to see what harm has actually been done by releasing it. When fans complain to SISU about "lack of transparency", this kind of communication is exactly the thing we want to hear. Open, honest summaries of what's going on. Instead of doing more of it, the club insist on heavily censoring it and only enabling a select group of people hear what is going on. When this is breached and fans are given a useful summary, Venus refuses to return. Petulant and exactly why fans have got a problem with the people who run our club.

I do think if "strict confidentiality" is in force then it was a shame to breach this, if Jan did so knowingly, however the wider point is that this kind of communication should not be locked down to a select group and should be normal form of general communication with fans (excluding anything sensitive and confidential). I think some on SCG like to ride the "embargo / confidence" train because they think it gives them power, status and authority.
 

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