Voice_of_Reason
Well-Known Member
Will SISU use JR2 as a bargaining tool to negotiate a new deal with wasps? Offer to withdraw it for an acceptable deal?
JR2 - SISU's bargaining tool? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Voice_of_Reason
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Bob Latchford
Well-Known Member
Think that would be the best outcome for CCFC to merge with Wasps now . not ideal but , can't see a better alternative.
sky blue john
Well-Known Member
Without winning JR1 I can't really see JR2 happening. How can they hope win JR2 when all their arguments have been rebuffed by the courts.
In my eyes Sisu's only option regarding court action is to appeal JR1.
Anyway even if Sisu won there is no benefit to CCFC as the club are not even a plaintiff. Just goes to show how much Sisu were thinking about the club at that time. Yes they tried to add the club as a plaintiff at one of the appeals but it was rejected by the judge.
In my eyes Sisu's only option regarding court action is to appeal JR1.
Anyway even if Sisu won there is no benefit to CCFC as the club are not even a plaintiff. Just goes to show how much Sisu were thinking about the club at that time. Yes they tried to add the club as a plaintiff at one of the appeals but it was rejected by the judge.
Suffolk sky blues
Well-Known Member
Not sure what there next move is.i don't think they will walk.they know & we know potentially could have 33,000 fans in there but it needs a lot of money & luck .
Samo
Well-Known Member
And why on earth would Wasps do that?
ccfcway
Well-Known Member
they will exhaust options for JR1 and move onto JR2.
I think they see that the courts are the only chance they have of getting any sort of money back (unless a miracle happens on the pitch)
Even negotiating a 10 year deal to stay at the ricoh rent free by agreeing to not action JR2 would be no use to SISU whatsoever, as they would still own a worthless, break even club with absolutely no exit strategy.
Sadly, I think the silence is them just working out if JR1 is over, or if they can take it further. All efforts will then be on JR2
I think they see that the courts are the only chance they have of getting any sort of money back (unless a miracle happens on the pitch)
Even negotiating a 10 year deal to stay at the ricoh rent free by agreeing to not action JR2 would be no use to SISU whatsoever, as they would still own a worthless, break even club with absolutely no exit strategy.
Sadly, I think the silence is them just working out if JR1 is over, or if they can take it further. All efforts will then be on JR2
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
JR2 has no chance of getting off the ground.
Sisu offered the same as Wasps for the Higgs share followed by TF saying they would not pay what Wasps paid.
Can't see what grounds they can base it on now as lot of the JR2 underpinning relies on JR1.
Feel that with JR1 out the way things have moved on.
Just need to wait again for JR2 to be thrown out, hopefully by Sisu by starting it.
Sisu offered the same as Wasps for the Higgs share followed by TF saying they would not pay what Wasps paid.
Can't see what grounds they can base it on now as lot of the JR2 underpinning relies on JR1.
Feel that with JR1 out the way things have moved on.
Just need to wait again for JR2 to be thrown out, hopefully by Sisu by starting it.
ccfcway
Well-Known Member
time will tell. I suspect we can rejoin this conversation this time next year and it will be "ongoing"
Senior Vick from Alicante
Well-Known Member
Something is going to happen on the legal front. why else would Fisher be seeking mediation through Damien Collins with Wasps and seeking to distance the club from the owners with his last statement.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
How does that work? It has little affect on wasps (they are an interested party but its about the councils decision making not what wasps did) and wasps won't talk to the club whilst legal action is going on.
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Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
It would be good to see Sisu pack up and go, but a takeover by the insects is one of the worst scenarios, I would like us to move out maybe to the Butts and leave London Wasps there and see how the naming rights deal goes then.
The people on the naming rights must be waiting to see who is going to be playing there before committing even at our level we get as much coverage as them without us what's it worth 100k a year maybe a bit more.
The people on the naming rights must be waiting to see who is going to be playing there before committing even at our level we get as much coverage as them without us what's it worth 100k a year maybe a bit more.
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
How would merging with Wasps be the best outcome??
From SISU to another hedge fund who have permanently moved their club nearly 100 miles from its home?
The best outcome for CCFC would be for Wasps to f&£k off back to London, our owners (preferably not SISU) to hug it out with the council and for us to buy back a building that was originally built for a team who've been in Coventry since 1883.
THAT, would be the best outcome for us regardless of how unlikely it is...
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italiahorse
Well-Known Member
Once CCFC have settled the Ricoh naming rights will happen.
CCFC uncertainty is holding it back.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
.... and being realistic from the position we are in ?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I could be wrong but to my mind JR2 seems even more limp wristed than JR1. Are SISU really going to go into court and say that the council didn't get a good price after spending the last three years in court arguing that it was worthless and therefore a loan shouldn't have been made. They can't argue that they were never given opportunity to make an offer ever as they clearly were and JS even had the then council leader in her office to discuss an offer which never came. I can't see that there is a protocol issue as there doesn't seem to be a process for offloading a half share in a stadium management firm from a local authority and the council also still hold the freehold so disposal of land guidelines don't come into it either. So to recap CCC sold something that SISU have said numerous times in court is worthless for a few million quid, CCC have secured payment in full of a loan SISU have argued in court shouldn't have been made in the first place partly due to the risk of loaning said worthless company and even the lease extension could be seen as a stroke of genius because as it well outstrips the design life of the arena the taxpayer won't have to pick up the bill of redevelopment the leaseholder will.
What's a judge going to say other than well done on getting this deal for the taxpayer?
JR2 is no bargaining chip. SISU could well be stupid enough to think it is though going by their philosophy of doing the same things expecting different results.
All JR2 will give is what JR1 has given. Wasted money, time and effort that could have been better invested in the club's interest's, lost opportunities, erosion of bridges and a further spiralling down of the club. This is why they have to go for the good of the club and we need to use any and every opportunity to tell them until they start listening. Them staying give's us a worst case scenario of disappearing and a best case scenario of years of stagnation. My guess is we'll fall somewhere in between.
What's a judge going to say other than well done on getting this deal for the taxpayer?
JR2 is no bargaining chip. SISU could well be stupid enough to think it is though going by their philosophy of doing the same things expecting different results.
All JR2 will give is what JR1 has given. Wasted money, time and effort that could have been better invested in the club's interest's, lost opportunities, erosion of bridges and a further spiralling down of the club. This is why they have to go for the good of the club and we need to use any and every opportunity to tell them until they start listening. Them staying give's us a worst case scenario of disappearing and a best case scenario of years of stagnation. My guess is we'll fall somewhere in between.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
And one who have just admitted that they're more interested in property development than running a rugby club, let alone a football club. Are those that want Wasps to take us over happy for us to be moved as leverage for another property deal?
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
If we are not there though the price won't be the same
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Like the sale of Ryton?
rupert_bear
Well-Known Member
We have chairman Fisher now putting his smug head above the parapet coincidently on the wake of the latest JR1 rebuff, now wants to have a meeting with MP Damien Collins hoping to Secure a deal to continuing at the Ricoh, This is the same chairman who has quoted time and again we are having a new ground built, we have moved on, we batter people in court, tells us only recently sisu and ccfc are speperate, yet wants to meet with Damien Collins within a couple of days of losing the case.
Wasps have put their cards quite clearly on the table, drop the legals and we'll negotiate, simple to understand really. We are just18 months from having nowhere to play, the FL require officially a credible 10 year plan re where we play our home games, just wondering if our chairman is looking towards a short term deal and attempting to use Collins to get one.
Wasps have put their cards quite clearly on the table, drop the legals and we'll negotiate, simple to understand really. We are just18 months from having nowhere to play, the FL require officially a credible 10 year plan re where we play our home games, just wondering if our chairman is looking towards a short term deal and attempting to use Collins to get one.
But I doubt it will be JLR - unless WASPS merge with CCFC and use existing sponsorship
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
I never get this 10 year rubbish from the league, clubs in our league and below are surviving year by year
Question - why are WASP's so bothered if they are not involved in the case other than witnesses?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
You don't seriously think that SISU purchased the club 9 years ago purely to sell Ryton a decade down the line do you?
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
ANYTHING...but owned by another nomadic hedge fund who have no interest in football.
Don't we ever learn?!
The mind boggles that some think it's a good idea...
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chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Surely thats a good thing? We know Anderson was in talks with Wasps months ago to extend the deal before Wasps pulled out of talks and have refused to speak to the club since. If getting Collins involved means everyone gets back round the table I don't see what the problem is with it.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
That's the question that should be being asked by the local media. Along with asking why they were happy negotiating with Anderson, negotiations Wasps themselves said were going well and then all of a sudden walked away and refused further talks.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
What evidence can CCC give to show they maximised the return for the taxpayer?
There are certainly questions around the value of the lease given the price Wasps paid for ACL and the lease extension compared to the lease valuation immediately after. If the £48.5m valuation of the lease stands up to scrutiny then would you say £1m for a 200 year extension was a good deal for the taxpayer?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
They cannot sell Ryton without suitable pitch provision being replaced. Not nearly the same thing.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Complete lies I'm afraid.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
You're missing the point Dave. Why do CCC have to give proof of anything regarding the sale of ACL? Where are the guidelines for offloading what is essentially a half quango? Is there any? They still retain the freehold so land disposal doesn't come into it. What rules have they broke or not followed correctly? Surely if there's going to be a judicial review some rules need to have at least been bent a little. Which rule?
OSB has explained the lease valuation dozens of times and it's now getting like SISU's management fees being SISU taking money out of the club.
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italiahorse
Well-Known Member
Agree.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
You know nothing as always.
Certainly no contribution to this thread............... again !!
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
You don't seriously believe that the possibility hasn't been in the back of their heads since day one do you? Plan A) get back into the premier league and get out quick with a profit. Plan B) if plan A fails sell all assets at an opportune moment and then get the hell out of dodge.
Why not?
Seriously Dave, have you only just met SISU?