liquidation looms, admin if we are lucky (4 Viewers)

[Waldorf]

Can we simplify this - the club owe SISU's investors £30 million if the club was to be liquidated or even put into admin not only would the investors lose that money it would also reflect very badly on SISU as the company who manage the investors money and recommended the investment in CCFC. The Cayman Islands thing is also something of a red herring, I am told it has more to do with the EU cracking down on hedge finds activity than anything to do with Cov, a lot of hedge funds are doing similar things to avoid regulatory interference from EU.
The over riding question for me and one that no one has yet answered is how SISU hope to get their investors their money back let alone turn a profit on it? At present we are in an economic state of limbo, the club is losing money monthly but these losses are being covered internally by player sales etc so SISU are not asking investors for more money but for how long can this limbo state exist and to what end? At some point the cycle (or downward spiral) has to be broken and they have to accept the losses as no investor is going to give them the full amount back, certainly not up front. Anyone explain SISU's plan or even take a stab at it. Please no garbage about the stadium and ACL because it has been made very clear that this avenue is closed so please explain.

The problem is, Jan, I don't think they HAVE a plan. They don't understand football, but they do understand making businesses profitable by reducing costs. Unfortunately, if you do that too much with a football club you end up in a downward spiral: the product gets worse, the income drops, you cut costs again, the product gets worse etc etc ad infinitum.
Their only hope would be to gamble on spending a couple of million in the January window and hope we can pull off The Great Escape. But I don't see them doing that.
My advice to them is to recognise what it says in the small print of any financial investment package - "Remember that the value of shares can go down as well as up" - cut their losses and sell to whoever is willing to buy. The club debts are all to the parent SISU fund, so that's who loses out under admin. It's the last thing they'd want to do.
But I don't think they're likely to take my advice any more than anyone else's

 

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[ashbyjan]

Thank you Waldorf - that is what I suspect and that is the basis of what I want the protest to be about - not so much highlighting our dire league position as outsiders just put that down to bad players, bad managers etc but to embarrass SISU about what they claim to be experts in - finance and the area that they have cocked up royally and appear to have no plan to rectify the situation. Show the City that these "experts" have simply lost their investors £30m or more and are trying to hide the fact. The idea of the protest is to bring the spotlight upon this small outcrop of civilisation north of Watford and when we have the national presses attention explain to them about SISU and the god awful job they have done with their clients money and how no one should ever trust them in the future with their money. The teams plight is of no interest to the media but there is a good story about mismanagement of funds and it is this that might just edge SISU closer to the exit door if they think potential investors may be put off or current investors will start asking questions. We need rid of these people and the sooner the better.

 

[howzer]

oh yeah what like greece you mean, Italy, Ireland, Portugal, Spain and so on, all in debt upto their eyeballs and listen to the experts if not me ... they say these countrys are effectively Bankcrupt, you can add the uk to that list too. When will poeple understand SISU have simply placed the debt into another company, they are NOT paying it back because they can not afford to pay it back. When that happens you are are Bankcrupt, you are talking about being DECLARED bankcrupt, there is a little difference but the word Bankcrupt can be used for you or me if we are unable due to our lack of wealth and income to pay our debts.

 

[howzer]

but we do NOT owe the money to SISU, i think this is where the fans dont understand the set up. the debt is still in the name of CCFC not sisu. when they decide they are out CCFC will still have the debt of 30 million and what ever debts have been accumulated since. I dont think poeple quite understand because of the way in which SISU have split up the club from the debts and the debts from sisu. what do you think these cayman island accounts and business is?

 

[howzer]

New owners confirmed
Coventry City confirmed on Wednesday night that Sconset Capital LP are the new owners of Sky Blue Sports & Leisure the company that was used to purchase Coventry City FC Holdings Ltd.
Sconset Capital LP is described as the "world's smallest hedge fund" with a managing partner in Timothy P.Connolly, who is based in New York. http://misstrade.me/2010/02/26/tim-...lks-long-and-short-with-misstrade-matt-davio/
Sconset Capital LP owns 13150 shares in SBS&L with former CCFC Director Leonard Brody having 548 shares.
A club spokesman told The Mirror: “Sconset is 100 per cent controlled by SISU Capital Limited, and it is SISU that has full management control of the parent company, and of the football club.”

i think youll find this company is in the cayman islands and has its accounts in the cayman islands. (the smallest hedge fund in the world and the name Leonard Brody reapears)

 

[howzer]

Directors are responsible for their actions at the time the alleged offence took place - therefore anyone who left after an event but before an investigation would still be responsible, no matter how much repositioning was done


thats if Ken Brody worked for SISU, but he didnt he worked for CCFC. Company directors do this every time their companys are going out of business, there jostling position to cause confusion and eventually steer clear of the fallout

 

[howzer]

Quite a lot of spin in there fella!!! Your not sisu in disguise are you?!!!

entitled to your opinion howzer but

firstly kd got sacked for clear and gross misconduct - he didnt go of his own accord and certainly that has nothing to do with positioning for liquidation

directors are responsible for their actions at the time the alleged offence took place - therefore anyone who left after an event but before an investigation would still be responsible, no matter how much repositioning was done

how does clarke getting a seat on ccfch board amount to repositioning to save his neck - if ccfc or sbs&l go bust so do ccfch. No such thing as an independent director- he is either a exec or non exec director.

I have no doubt that there is a tax reason why nearly all the shares are held by a fund legally based in the cayman isles, and i also would think that fund has simply had the previous funds transferred to it. Doesnt mean any part of the sbs&l group is based in the cayman isles only that the share owners are. In fact it would be hard to prove to hmrc that the sbs&l group is based anywhere other than in the uk just look at the facts.

With all the losses the club has i doubt they need to worry about paying tax any time in the next 10 years any way

the share owners have made loans to sbs&l not sisu. Sisu are managing agents nothing more who act on behalf of the share owners who are now sconset.

Do you not think that sisu would lose more face with their clients (the investors in sconset) by going into liquidation than by continueing? Afterall they would lose the football registration, the option to buy into acl, any potential to resell and of course £30m.

Every accounting entry has a debit and a credit. So transfer the debts to another company in the group and that will leave a debt in the original company that administrators will seek to reclaim

there is no evidence that any other debts have not been paid or are not part of a scheme of payment - so just exactly how is any of that illegal (btw i would check on the libel laws in this country before making such statements about illegal transactions)

it goes bust they lose nearly all their money, they wont get the money back by taking that route

there is no cayman island business or accounts to look into

presently because of the undertakings given by the sisu investors the club is not insolvent, and certainly not bankrupt. If they withdraw that support thats different but they have not.

Entitled to your opinion howzer but to be honest there is little to support it. That may change but on what we actually know sorry i think you are wrong

 

[kg82]

Nope, nobody is bankrupt unless being declared bankrupt. If you're broke nobody says "Oh, I'm bankrupt", they say they're broke. Nobody says they're nearly bankrupt, they say they're thinking of becoming bankrupt - that's not saying they are bankrupt, because they are not! Look, I don't like SISU or what they've done to our club but you're phrasing stuff as fact, which it is not. Administration is a hell of a lot more likely than liquidation. And, by the way, liquidation is another term for bankruptcy and you have stated you think liquidation is likely - not here... Likely. Which surely means you think bankruptcy is likely - not here... Likely.

 

[howzer]

Moff you have no idea what you are saying, administration does not write off debts or lower them, you still owe the debt. Dont you understand the debt is being held in a seperate company to sisu, and ccfc are responsible for it? Honeslty some people think administration is the answer, administration leads to liquidation in many cases. You think they will simply write of debts of 30 million. Keep dreaming guys

 

[kg82]

Directors are responsible for their actions at the time the alleged offence took place - therefore anyone who left after an event but before an investigation would still be responsible, no matter how much repositioning was done


thats if Ken Brody worked for SISU, but he didnt he worked for CCFC. Company directors do this every time their companys are going out of business, there jostling position to cause confusion and eventually steer clear of the fallout

Who's Ken Brody?

 

[howzer]

No my freind, sisus investors are not owed anything, they take a gamble on a return, the 30 million debts was the debt sisu took on when buying the club (remember when everyone was saying the club was about to go out of existence). SISU have since moved that debt to another company distancing SISU from that debt. SISU have then turned the debt of that new company into a loan to CCFC. Back to square 1 when they came into the club. No doubt they have paid toward the upkeep of the club but the debt was never cleared, just juggled. Hence you and many others like you think SISU have something to lose ... they dont ... nor do their investors, they have made back their money on our sales of players, they will not re-invest because they see us as a risky investment. Understand guys SISU are robbing the club and us as fans,. they are also pulling the wool over the eyes of some of our business minded people by the sounds of it.

the club owe SISU's investors £30 million if the club was to be liquidated or even put into admin not only would the investors lose that money

Can we simplify this - the club owe SISU's investors £30 million if the club was to be liquidated or even put into admin not only would the investors lose that money it would also reflect very badly on SISU as the company who manage the investors money and recommended the investment in CCFC. The Cayman Islands thing is also something of a red herring, I am told it has more to do with the EU cracking down on hedge finds activity than anything to do with Cov, a lot of hedge funds are doing similar things to avoid regulatory interference from EU.
The over riding question for me and one that no one has yet answered is how SISU hope to get their investors their money back let alone turn a profit on it? At present we are in an economic state of limbo, the club is losing money monthly but these losses are being covered internally by player sales etc so SISU are not asking investors for more money but for how long can this limbo state exist and to what end? At some point the cycle (or downward spiral) has to be broken and they have to accept the losses as no investor is going to give them the full amount back, certainly not up front. Anyone explain SISU's plan or even take a stab at it. Please no garbage about the stadium and ACL because it has been made very clear that this avenue is closed so please explain.

 

[ICHAN]

Ken and Leonard's love child

 

[Jack Griffin]

Howser keep taking the tablets pal.

 

[howzer]

you guys, youll never forget me will you XXX

 

[howzer]

 

[procdoc]

are you going to try and ruin this forum too? I'm sure Nick will throw you out and ban you for life you wum

 

[skyblueinBaku]

you guys, youll never forget me will you XXX

Sadly, no - you troll :jerkit:

 

[howzer]

 

[howzer]

oh dear some so called fans are getting themselves a little overheated.

 

[procdoc]

you have serious mental health issues. Have you really got nothing better to do?

 

[howzer]

did i honestly bring down the cet forum? i dont think so, i think that was to do with a certain court summons to the editor of the Coventry Telegraph to appear in a injunction proceedings, and a claim in the civil court for libel and slander after one of the moderators gave personal details of a certain member to other members, whom then plastered said persons details across the boards breaching privacy laws and libel laws. Or was it they simply chose not to fund the forum anymore???

 

[howzer]

oh dear procdoc, what is wrong with you, why dont you calm down dear

 

[skyblueinBaku]

procdoc, just ignore him then he will go away and play somewhere else.

 

[howzer]

are you going to try and ruin this forum too? I'm sure Nick will throw you out and ban you for life you wum

Honestly procdoc i dont know why you have reacted so badly to me simply writing my opinion. if you dont like it you dont have to read it, or you could just ignore me

 

[kg82]

Errrrrmmmm.... WOW.

 

[howzer]

procdoc, just ignore him then he will go away and play somewhere else.

going nowhere mate, this thread was fine until one or two completely went over the top and became abusive and rude toward me, there was no wumming taking place simply a city fan giving his honest assessment of the situation.

 

[howzer]

Howser keep taking the tablets pal.

thats pretty insulting Jack. I dont take tablets mate, but if i did suffer a mental illness that required me to take tablets i would be quite offended by your ignorant remark

 

[howzer]

would you like to expand KG as to why you believe i may have a mental disability

 

[procdoc]

all these mindless posts indicate you suffer in the mental department. You are clearly as mad as a box of frogs

 

[We'll_live_and_die]

I think everyone would prefer you to wum off to be honest pal.

 

[kg82]

would you like to expand KG as to why you believe i may have a mental disability

I don't think you have a mental disabilty, I think you're an attention seeker. I suppose that's like the difference between bankruptcy and administration

 

[howzer]

I don't think you have a mental disabilty, I think you're an attention seeker. I suppose that's like the difference between bankruptcy and administration

you little boys are just as silly as you were on CT forum, guys when are you going to get it, i am a serious city fan and have been for over 30 years now. I just dont let gangs like you lot get away with bullying others online. that is why i got the ct forum closed down, because of the bulying that took place. it is really simple, i havent done anything to offend any of you on this thread but you have in total fact acted like bullying little school children all ganging up and trying to offend and abuse me. i can handle it and i can give out what i take, the difference between me and the likes of procdoc kg etc is that i dont care about the out come, i would never attempt to close this forum down, until now i have had no trouble, it is simply you guys again like a dog with a bone. forget the past boys move on, i aint going anywhere, and the owners of this forum have no reason to ban me i have not broken any rules of this forum. I am willing to let this go guys ok, are you??

by the way why dont the guys that cant handle my being here look at my posts over the past months, i think youll find i have been well recieved here. sorry about that

 

[We'll_live_and_die]

The forum owner can ban you just cause your a plonker though mate. They dont need a reason.

 

[kg82]

Bullying? What the hell are you talking about?! I've called you an attention seeker, it's not exactly bloody noses in the playground! You like winding people up, it's no coincidence you've done it on the CT forum and now here - my assumption = attention seeker. Look up the definition for bullying. While you're at it, look up the definition for bankruptcy.

I'll ignore you from now on, seems to be the only way somebody will get away without being accused of "bullying" with you, which I seem to remember happened on the CT forum as well. Well, you know what they say about shouting wolf.

 

[Kuklinski]

I think Howzer has raised some valid points. Whether he is correct is another matter entirely but I've been most interested with his take on things.

As for him being a WUM, I wouldn't know, but don't you think he's put a lot of time and effort in to find out the goings on behind the scenes in relation to SISU and their associated directors, just to gain a few bites?