You don't win anything with kids (9 Viewers)

[Deleted member 5849]

Seems we're the rule that proved Man Utd's exception...

That said, if we do somehow stay up, this could stand us in good stead.

 

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[Hincha]

As somebody said on twitter, it does not look too rosy when 53 of those appearances came from 4 loanees - Sterry (13), Page (18), Agyei (13), Wright (9)

 

[Deleted member 5849]

As somebody said on twitter, it does not look too rosy when 53 of those appearances came from 4 loanees - Sterry (13), Page (18), Agyei (13), Wright (9)

Fair point, well made!

So we're getting the worst of all worlds then?:banghead:

 

[Grendel]

As somebody said on twitter, it does not look too rosy when 53 of those appearances came from 4 loanees - Sterry (13), Page (18), Agyei (13), Wright (9)

Did it look as bad last season when most came from Armstrong and Murphy?

 

[Esoterica]

Did it look as bad last season when most came from Armstrong and Murphy?

Of course not because they were better than the youth we had. But when we are developing Agyei/Wright over G Thomas or even Page over Haynes then something is not right. (Neither of who I actually think should be regularly starting in league one but when the loanees we have are playing...). And if we have signed loanees with appearance based conditions (purely speculation on my part) then it makes the summer's recruitment even more of a clusterfuck.

 

[Hincha]

Did it look as bad last season when most came from Armstrong and Murphy?

It probably does, although I imagine they are not quite so high. Anyway, I was not intending to argue NW's initial point that young players are the reason for our league position.

I was arguing that it will not stand us in good stead for next season, as most of the appearances have come from players who will go back to their parent clubs.

 

[ceetee]

And how many times in past seasons when the team has been poor have people come on here and on CWR and said

" ....drop them and play the kids. Can't be any worse"

 

[ccfcway]

And how many times in past seasons when the team has been poor have people come on here and on CWR and said

" ....drop them and play the kids. Can't be any worse"

would Haynes, DKE and Thomas be any worse than Page, Sterry and Wright ?

Why are we developing other clubs kids if they aren't better than what we have ?

 

[bringbackrattles]

Age doesn't really matter if the player is good. Man Utd had very talented youth when Hansen said that now famous comment.

 

[Kingokings204]

Never believed in kids myself. Call me old fashioned but I like the whiley experienced pros who are in their peak around 25-29 years old.

A kid can be as good as anyone but he can't get that match day experience until he has earned his stripes. How many kids are even that good? We've had Maddison and Wilson and been lucky to sell for huge fees.

Last season was the prime example very talented players in Murphy and Armstrong in particular but two major problems even when they are that good. One is they faded away and became non existent and cost us a top 6 finish when it seemed impossible and two they are both playing for better clubs in a higher league now.

Something fundamentally is wrong with what we do. Is Haynes any worse than page like the poster said above? Not for me

 

[ccfcway]

average age of a prem league winning team is 27.

I cant believe league one is too far from that age as well

Did we have anyone other than McCann over 27 in our last game ?

We don't have the experience to compete in league one

 

[stupot07]

would Haynes, DKE and Thomas be any worse than Page, Sterry and Wright ?

Why are we developing other clubs kids if they aren't better than what we have ?

Completely agree.

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[stupot07]

average age of a prem league winning team is 27.

I cant believe league one is too far from that age as well

Did we have anyone other than McCann over 27 in our last game ?

We don't have the experience to compete in league one

We had ghadzev, Reid and Tudguy on the bench

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[ccfcway]

if the budget is that tight, save the wages on these loans and give our own kids the game time and use the budget for something else

 

[ccfcway]

We had ghadzev, Reid and Tudguy on the bench

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So a squad with 3 over the average age and one over the hill. 3 of the 4 on the bench.

Gad doesn't have experience of this league and was always a punt. Reid has been a let down. KC was raving about him and we are soon to lose McCann

 

[Otis]

How far is Jordan Ponticelli off getting near the first team squad I wonder?

Be a tremendous boost to have one of our own as our main goal threat and someone capable of getting close to 20 goals

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[ccfcway]

How far is Jordan Ponticelli off getting near the first team squad I wonder?

Be a tremendous boost to have one of our own as our main goal threat and someone capable of getting close to 20 goals

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about 6 weeks. End of Jan should do it

 

[Grendel]

would Haynes, DKE and Thomas be any worse than Page, Sterry and Wright ?

Why are we developing other clubs kids if they aren't better than what we have ?

Haynes and Dke are far worse than Sterry and page. They are awful.

 

[Grendel]

if the budget is that tight, save the wages on these loans and give our own kids the game time and use the budget for something else

How much are these loans costing then?

 

[ccfcway]

Completely agree.

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exactly, We are paying for Sterry, Page et al and still bottom 3. We might as well develop our kids

 

[Grendel]

I

exactly, We are paying for Sterry, Page et al and still bottom 3. We might as well develop our kids

How much are they costing? Also to suggest that the alternatives are as good is absurd. Haynes will be out of the club as soon as his contract is ended and DKE needs experience at a far lower level - last season would you rather Thomas had experience than having Armstrong?

Insane.

 

[ccfcway]

Its not like in previous years when we had players like murphy and armstrong keeping out our kids as they were far better, this season, we are forking out for players like wright when we have our own kids like Thomas who cant do any worse

 

[thekidfromstrettoncamp]

Playing player in their right position might help, experienced players must find it hard lord knows how kids find it.

 

[chinamans view]

Its a good job with had the kids this season or we would of been down by Oct. they have been better than the older players lol

 

[oldskyblue58]

It could be seen as an indictment of our own academy that the players we develop are not up to the task not what the manager needs and that the better option is to develop another team's academy graduates.....

Would think that cash available comes in to this somewhere and players we get on loan are usually expected to play by the parent club or we don't get them..... and part of the problem is we need numbers

 

[ccfcway]

It could be seen as an indictment of our own academy that the players we develop are not up to the task not what the manager needs and that the better option is to develop another team's academy graduates.....

surely it depends ?

Armstrong is considerably better in our team than Thomas
(non league) Turgott isn't
Wright isn't

 

[thekidfromstrettoncamp]

It could be seen as an indictment of our own academy that the players we develop are not up to the task not what the manager needs and that the better option is to develop another team's academy graduates.....

Would think that cash available comes in to this somewhere and players we get on loan are usually expected to play by the parent club or we don't get them..... and part of the problem is we need numbers

O S B We got numbers in in January this year and I think I could have done as well if not better with recruitment than they(MV and TM) did

 

[shy_tall_knight]

Age doesn't really matter if the player is good. Man Utd had very talented youth when Hansen said that now famous comment.

But those youngsters had a team of Irwin Schmeichcal cantona Bruce Pallister Keane Sharpe & Cole - to help them - our senior professionals include Ricketts & Tudgay - enough said

 

[Brylowes]

I


How much are they costing? Also to suggest that the alternatives are as good is absurd. Haynes will be out of the club as soon as his contract is ended and DKE needs experience at a far lower level - last season would you rather Thomas had experience than having Armstrong?

Insane.

They're costing money that could be used elsewhere, also you say DKE needs experience
At a far lower level, well most of our team need experience at a lower level and if they stick
With us they'll get it sooner rather than later.

 

[shy_tall_knight]

As we have a revolving door of players short term contracts and loans, since we were relegated there is always the risk that you get it wrong like we have done this pre-season. We don't have an established scouting network, we are a club in crisis, we are replacing a large number of players is it any surprise when our recruitment goes badly wrong.

These are the players who who played more than 20 games for us last season, who are still with us Stokes RCC Ruben & Tudgay. Stokes has been injured, RCC is not first choice, Ruben Tudgay are not regular starters. Is there any surprise that following such a turnover of players it went wrong.

 

[thekidfromstrettoncamp]

Does a club of our size need an established network in this day and age there is wall to wall football covering many divisions including non league and abroad and if you spot a talent a manager only has to talk to a fellow pro who he knows and get the low down on them something that does not seem to have been done with our loans this season its not the tools you use its how you use them

 

[pastythegreat]

I


How much are they costing? Also to suggest that the alternatives are as good is absurd. Haynes will be out of the club as soon as his contract is ended and DKE needs experience at a far lower level - last season would you rather Thomas had experience than having Armstrong?

Insane.

But this isn't last season, this is here and now! It's not about G.Thomas getting game time/experience over Arma! It's about 2 loan strikers who are pony at best getting game time over our own pony players! If your gonna play somebody pony, u might aswell play the one that gives half a fuck about the city and the club and that isn't dreaming of getting back to WBA u21s for Wednesdays game v Chelsea!

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[Deleted member 5849]

I was arguing that it will not stand us in good stead for next season, as most of the appearances have come from players who will go back to their parent clubs.

And arguably Armstrong and Murphy weren't good for this season after. For a two year plan, we had an awful lot of gaps to plug over the summer, some because of loanees returning.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

And how many times in past seasons when the team has been poor have people come on here and on CWR and said

" ....drop them and play the kids. Can't be any worse"

Another fair point. I remember Adams getting no end of stick for not playing Thornton. Thonrton's subsequent career shows the manager was right...

That being said, *if* you survive, the experience can haden them, and make them grow up. Palace a few years back nearly fell down to this division, had to play a team of kids thanks to administration. They narrowly survived... and then could build on that to the point where they won promotion. That was partly because their young players now had the valuable first team experience they might not have got, if circumstances hadn't been desperate.

 

[martcov]

Another fair point. I remember Adams getting no end of stick for not playing Thornton. Thonrton's subsequent career shows the manager was right...

That being said, *if* you survive, the experience can haden them, and make them grow up. Palace a few years back nearly fell down to this division, had to play a team of kids thanks to administration. They narrowly survived... and then could build on that to the point where they won promotion. That was partly because their young players now had the valuable first team experience they might not have got, if circumstances hadn't been desperate.

Under our structure we cannot 'build'.

If we survive because youngsters have learnt through the experience and are showing promise, they will go at the end of the season.

We are a stepping stone for anyone wanting a career. We cannot offer a future because, quite frankly, we don't necessarily have one ourselves under the present situation.