Wave of optimism (60 Viewers)

[Astute]

Tell us all how many years of failure, taking our club out of Coventry, refusing to have talks about the Ricoh, spending all of their energy on what most could see as fruitless court battles instead of sorting out what they have done to our club, bullshitting about a new stadium, lying about using 60% of player sales cash to improve the playing squad and insulting our intelligence all the time before we got angry?

It wouldn't have happened in Newcastle, Leeds, Manchester or anywhere else.

 

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[torchomatic]

Tell us all how many years of failure, taking our club out of Coventry, refusing to have talks about the Ricoh, spending all of their energy on what most could see as fruitless court battles instead of sorting out what they have done to our club, bullshitting about a new stadium, lying about using 60% of player sales cash to improve the playing squad and insulting our intelligence all the time before we got angry?

I'm not arguing with that. SISU fucked up. However, I'm one of those oddballs who doesn't blame SISU 110%, I blame ACL and CCC for playing their part too. Weird huh? However, even if I was one of the 110%ers I would still be angry that my club - not SISU - but my club have been shafted for 250 years. This club is in a mess as Fisher told us the other night. Just think what it would be like though if CCC still controlled ACL. There would potentially be a deal for a new owner even if not for SISU, we'd be a million times more attractive than we are now. Jesus, there would be some hope. But to borrow a phrase from Mr Fisher, that ship has sailed and not just because of fucking SISU. Anyway, pointless now.

 

[italiahorse]

Maybe if they were offered the same deal at the same price we wouldn't be talking about Wasps.

Perhaps if they negotiated they might have.

 

[torchomatic]

Perhaps if they negotiated they might have.

IT was never going to happen. Like getting stitched up for the other half of ACL by PWKH and all the cronies. The club never stood a chance. And that's all that matters. For me anyway.

 

[Astute]

I'm not arguing with that. SISU fucked up. However, I'm one of those oddballs who doesn't blame SISU 110%, I blame ACL and CCC for playing their part too. Weird huh? However, even if I was one of the 110%ers I would still be angry that my club - not SISU - but my club have been shafted for 250 years. This club is in a mess as Fisher told us the other night. Just think what it would be like though if CCC still controlled ACL. There would potentially be a deal for a new owner even if not for SISU, we'd be a million times more attractive than we are now. Jesus, there would be some hope. But to borrow a phrase from Mr Fisher, that ship has sailed and not just because of fucking SISU. Anyway, pointless now.

You know that I don't blame SISU for everything. But I also don't jump in to defend anyone. For instance if a thread is about CCC I don't start going on about SISU. If the thread is about Fisher I don't start going on about CCC. Can you say the same?

So do you agree that we haven't got angry with anyone and anything when we should have years ago instead of trying to make out that it is only one side we have let off with everything?

 

[torchomatic]

You know that I don't blame SISU for everything. But I also don't jump in to defend anyone. For instance if a thread is about CCC I don't start going on about SISU. If the thread is about Fisher I don't start going on about CCC. Can you say the same?

So do you agree that we haven't got angry with anyone and anything when we should have years ago instead of trying to make out that it is only one side we have let off with everything?

The anger has always been at SISU. The others have got away with it. Sad, but true. And it's CCFC that have ultimately lost out.

 

[ScottChegg]

This will sound strange to many I am sure.
However personally at the moment I feel quite optimistic.

SISU have been forced to admit their only plan (short term). Get the club costing nothing I.e breakeven. Then sit and hope someone comes in with a bid.

Since the firesale sale of Juke just when we were facing relegation I knew SISU's interests were different from the club. You would never sell your top striker when facing relegation to replace him with two untested loanee's for less than 1mlion. If you understood football and understood the true cost of relegation.
Then observing the way SISU did business they won with the rent strike but still tried to go one step further.
They did well to get the club to Northampton again an amazing opportunity to get ACL for the bargain that Wasps did. They again misjudged it and went for more.
Selling Juke, back tracking on the hand shake on the rent deal, Not bidding for ACL when Anne said put your best bid in. I realise these people do not understand when they have a good opportunity and ahways try to push one step further.

I fell into their trap again when they supported Mowbray. When Venus was put on the board aswell I thought finally this is it. They understand they need a football man picking the team. They need a football man influencing the board.

I was wrong "breakeven" is the holy grail more important than promotion, more important than season ticket sales, more important than a cup run. More important than selling merchandise.

The reason I am optimistic is during their reign of mismanagement of our club. They managed to deflect blame, the Council, Wasps, CET, Simon Gilbert, The Higgs charity.

Effectively anybody who stands up against them and says enough this is not right gets attacked and blamed.

This has divided the fans some moving away from the main catalyst of our problems. Yes there are always other issues but there is usually a primary cause. Thanks to the likes of Les Reid they were managing to deflect and aportion blame quite impressively.

Last night for the first time the fans in unison stood up against them. True to form Tim Fisher today was attacking the fans apparently we have .....

Derailed the Butts deal (without him speaking to John Sharpe) it is somehow Fact.

Made ball boys cry (poor buggers have been crying for a while over the destruction of the club where they used to walk out with internationals)

Put off potential investors ( now fans showing passion puts off an investor but SISU suing people who do business with them and repeatedly losing and stating the club isn't for sale and presiding over the club battling to avoid its lowest ever league position doesn't !!!)

Made the players shoulders drop
( what made their shoulders drop in the other 10 defeats, last night was one of their better performances)

Scared off potential new managers (JFH met with the owners and said forget it after that chat well before any protest, so SISU put off managers, not fans showing passion. Any manager with a brain will understand)

Last night was the first time 99% forgot about the other shit SISU deflects you too. Even on here afterwards 99% were proud of the protest.

This is a turning point now Tim Fisher is blaming you the fan for his and SISU's bad decision making.

It is time to stay united keep this momentum up and soon they willl be gone.

I genuinely feel more optimistic as a result of last night than anytime since pre the Juke sale!!!

If they dont give us anything to be proud of on the pitch we can be damn proud of ourselves instead.

A couple(two) of idiots on here have sniped at our own fans for not standing up to Wasps or the council. Suggesting other fans would have been up in arms rioting at our treatment.
I noted they were very quite last night when our fans did stand up and were counted. Thought they would be on here with tears in their eyes that our fans were sticking up for the club.
Unfortunately not a squeak from either of them.The silence speaks volumes

I've got to echo some of the other comments - you're off your rocker mate. I'd seek help.

 

[Astute]

IT was never going to happen. Like getting stitched up for the other half of ACL by PWKH and all the cronies. The club never stood a chance. And that's all that matters. For me anyway.

SISU took the piss and refused to negotiate. They got told that it would be sold elsewhere if they didn't. Some called it a white elephant. But there was someone else interested.

And after the deal went through Fisher said that they wouldn't have taken the same deal as it meant taking on the loan. As in the same deal that Wasps got. Yet you and a few others state something as a fact that isn't a fact :shifty:

 

[torchomatic]

SISU took the piss and refused to negotiate. They got told that it would be sold elsewhere if they didn't. Some called it a white elephant. But there was someone else interested.

And after the deal went through Fisher said that they wouldn't have taken the same deal as it meant taking on the loan. As in the same deal that Wasps got. Yet you and a few others state something as a fact that isn't a fact :shifty:

I don't care about Fisher, I don't care about SISU. I care about CCFC. The blame for this is not just down to them as CCC did not HAVE to sell the stadium. Surely, they realised what the potential damage to the football club would be? We paid more in rent in 8 years than Wasps paid for the whole shebang. You can say what you like but ultimately, the sale of the stadium - blame whoever you like - will have more affect on CCFC than SISU ever will. They won't be here for ever, for the RIcoh is out of reach forever.

 

[italiahorse]

IT was never going to happen. Like getting stitched up for the other half of ACL by PWKH and all the cronies. The club never stood a chance. And that's all that matters. For me anyway.

Are you for real ?
Have you read the JR document ?
I would say it's the other way round.
We owned half of ACL and sold it to Higgs. I would have thought we would at least offered them to same value they paid while we were here.
Okay it was worth less because we left but as soon as there were other interested parties (Wasps) there was only going to be one outcome.
I understand as a CCFC fan why we would like to get the stadium cheap and could in some aspects appreciate the Sisu tactic.
But in the real world and in the interest of fairness you have to negotiate as equal partners.

 

[torchomatic]

Are you for real ?
Have you read the JR document ?
I would say it's the other way round.
We owned half of ACL and sold it to Higgs. I would have thought we would at least offered them to same value they paid while we were here.
Okay it was worth less because we left but as soon as there were other interested parties (Wasps) there was only going to be one outcome.
I understand as a CCFC fan why we would like to get the stadium cheap and could in some aspects appreciate the Sisu tactic.
But in the real world and in the interest of fairness you have to negotiate as equal partners.

Yes, I am. Difficult for someone who loves Top Class Rugby to understand I guess.

 

[italiahorse]

The anger has always been at SISU. The others have got away with it. Sad, but true. And it's CCFC that have ultimately lost out.

We are not going to convince you that Sisu got it wrong, upset CCC and forced them to do what most ratepayers wanted.

 

[torchomatic]

We are not going to convince you that Sisu got it wrong, upset CCC and forced them to do what most ratepayers wanted.

Wait, I know SISU got it wrong. Massively wrong. I have never said they haven't, but there was no need to CCC to sell to someone else as they knew it would damage the football club. And I'm not going to convince you.

 

[Astute]

I don't care about Fisher, I don't care about SISU. I care about CCFC. The blame for this is not just down to them as CCC did not HAVE to sell the stadium. Surely, they realised what the potential damage to the football club would be? We paid more in rent in 8 years than Wasps paid for the whole shebang. You can say what you like but ultimately, the sale of the stadium - blame whoever you like - will have more affect on CCFC than SISU ever will. They won't be here for ever, for the RIcoh is out of reach forever.

So because I care about CCFC I shouldn't make comments about Fisher or SISU on a SISU or Fisher thread?

 

[torchomatic]

So because I care about CCFC I shouldn't make comments about Fisher or SISU on a SISU or Fisher thread?

<sigh>. Where did I say that?

 

[italiahorse]

Yes, I am. Difficult for someone who loves Top Class Rugby to understand I guess.

You can do both.
Similarly we can have both a successful Rugby team and Football team.
Sisu/TF comments over the past few days should convince you what the Sisu plan is.
i.e. Fans need to attend however dire the football is. If they don't then the budget will be cut.
The only way out of this is Sisu to do the decent thing and to let us go at what we are worth.
Perhaps ask if anybody is interested in just taking us on and maybe just maybe wasting some money on us.
Currently they are holding out for a return on their money and so that is not going to happen

 

[Astute]

Wait, I know SISU got it wrong. Massively wrong. I have never said they haven't, but there was no need to CCC to sell to someone else as they knew it would damage the football club. And I'm not going to convince you.

We all agree.

But we are in days of cuts to services that are needed. SISU wanted the arena without the loan. When they left it was costing CCC (the taxpayer) money. It would have been state aid to a hedge fund if they would have got what they wanted. They would have had to answer to the taxpayer. Most of which don't follow our football club.

As you know I am pissed off with them letting Wasps have it. But I understand why they let them have it. And deep down you do as well.

 

[italiahorse]

Wait, I know SISU got it wrong. Massively wrong. I have never said they haven't, but there was no need to CCC to sell to someone else as they knew it would damage the football club. And I'm not going to convince you.

Of course it would damage the football club and they would know that.
But the club was in Northampton saying they were building their own stadium and would only come back as owners of the freehold.
Don't listen to the CCC/ACL comments that ACL was doing okay, when you are up against it you just play a straight bat.
What would you do as a council?

 

[Astute]

<sigh>. Where did I say that?

So what did you mean about not caring about SISU or Fisher and picking me up on having a go at them on a thread about them? You know that I have a go at whoever the thread is about. They all acted like spoilt kids and a bunch of cunts.

I am one of only a few that gets questioned of my thoughts by those on all sides. So much for impartiality

 

[torchomatic]

We all agree.

But we are in days of cuts to services that are needed. SISU wanted the arena without the loan. When they left it was costing CCC (the taxpayer) money. It would have been state aid to a hedge fund if they would have got what they wanted. They would have had to answer to the taxpayer. Most of which don't follow our football club.

As you know I am pissed off with them letting Wasps have it. But I understand why they let them have it. And deep down you do as well.

That's all very well the old "cuts" thing, but if you remember at the time they said the Ricoh was doing well and they didn't need CCFC. Turned out to be a lie (but hey, who cares, that was soon forgotten about).

The difference is I DON'T understand why they did it. Ultimately it was probably because SISU had pissed them off so much they wouldn't deal with them and so basically they shafted the club out of spite as they hated SISU. So, all that history, the fans, the ground, etc didn't matter to them, they wouldn't have sold to the club no matter what. And look despite that show of spite we are still stuck with SISU and their grip is even tighter, so it only benefited Wasps. Fuck everyone else, fuck 130 years of history, fuck the future of the club. As long as SISU don't have it who cares and the sad thing is many people climbed on board with them. The Trust even attended the first Wasps match!

I will never understand it, so don't say I do deep down, because I don't. Doing it out of spite is even worse in my book. There is zero excuse to throw away the club to SISU and say "we don't care, you sort it out, we have Wasps now".

 

[torchomatic]

So what did you mean about not caring about SISU or Fisher and picking me up on having a go at them on a thread about them? You know that I have a go at whoever the thread is about. They all acted like spoilt kids and a bunch of cunts.

I am one of only a few that gets questioned of my thoughts by those on all sides. So much for impartiality

TBH I'm confused I don't remember having a go at you about Fisher and SISU. All I have been doing is having a go at CCC too, which seems to annoy.

 

[Astute]

That's all very well the old "cuts" thing, but if you remember at the time they said the Ricoh was doing well and they didn't need CCFC. Turned out to be a lie (but hey, who cares, that was soon forgotten about).

The difference is I DON'T understand why they did it. Ultimately it was probably because SISU had pissed them off so much they wouldn't deal with them and so basically they shafted the club out of spite as they hated SISU. So, all that history, the fans, the ground, etc didn't matter to them, they wouldn't have sold to the club no matter what. And look despite that show of spite we are still stuck with SISU and their grip is even tighter, so it only benefited Wasps. Fuck everyone else, fuck 130 years of history, fuck the future of the club. As long as SISU don't have it who cares and the sad thing is many people climbed on board with them. The Trust even attended the first Wasps match!

I will never understand it, so don't say I do deep down, because I don't. Doing it out of spite is even worse in my book. There is zero excuse to throw away the club to SISU and say "we don't care, you sort it out, we have Wasps now".

Yes they either lied or got the numbers wrong. Just like SISU and last year's budget. They are all at it.

 

[Astute]

TBH I'm confused I don't remember having a go at you about Fisher and SISU. All I have been doing is having a go at CCC too, which seems to annoy.

You asked why only have anger for SISU when CCC also did wrong on a Fisher thread. There is enough of taking all threads off topic without having to mention what all sides did wrong each time you make a comment on a thread.

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

Yes they either lied or got the numbers wrong. Just like SISU and last year's budget. They are all at it.

I am sure that CCC said they could manage without CCFC as tenants simply as a bluff, trying to phych Sisu out. I can understand why they sold to Wasps and not to Sisu and that is entirely Sisu's fault. However, the real hammer blow to CCFC in all of this was the sale of the Ricoh to Wasps. It has really taken away the hope and left us in an awful situation. I still feel that when Sisu go that all of those putting the squeeze on CCFC as a way of getting at Sisu will start to be sympathetic and help. A new stadium somewhere in the city or the outskirts may become a possibility again, particularly with new owners. ( not the Butts the site is too small and there would be too many objections to fight).

 

[torchomatic]

You asked why only have anger for SISU when CCC also did wrong on a Fisher thread. There is enough of taking all threads off topic without having to mention what all sides did wrong each time you make a comment on a thread.

You asked why only have anger for SISU when CCC also did wrong on a Fisher thread. There is enough of taking all threads off topic without having to mention what all sides did wrong each time you make a comment on a thread.

I said there were people on here who only had anger at Fisher and SISU. I said CCC get away with it scot free, I don't think I ever said "Astute, you only have anger for, etc etc".

 

[torchomatic]

I am sure that CCC said they could manage without CCFC as tenants simply as a bluff, trying to phych Sisu out. I can understand why they sold to Wasps and not to Sisu and that is entirely Sisu's fault. However, the real hammer blow to CCFC in all of this was the sale of the Ricoh to Wasps. It has really taken away the hope and left us in an awful situation. I still feel that when Sisu go that all of those putting the squeeze on CCFC as a way of getting at Sisu will start to be sympathetic and help. A new stadium somewhere in the city or the outskirts may become a possibility again, particularly with new owners. ( not the Butts the site is too small and there would be too many objections to fight).

Haha! So when CCC lie it's a "bluff". Just like the "bluff" when we came back from Sixfields and they were talking about ownership despite having done a deal with Wasps. Or the "bluff" from Ann when she said she only agreed to the sale as she was told it wouldn't damage CCFC. Bingo!

 

[Astute]

I am sure that CCC said they could manage without CCFC as tenants simply as a bluff, trying to phych Sisu out. I can understand why they sold to Wasps and not to Sisu and that is entirely Sisu's fault. However, the real hammer blow to CCFC in all of this was the sale of the Ricoh to Wasps. It has really taken away the hope and left us in an awful situation. I still feel that when Sisu go that all of those putting the squeeze on CCFC as a way of getting at Sisu will start to be sympathetic and help. A new stadium somewhere in the city or the outskirts may become a possibility again, particularly with new owners. ( not the Butts the site is too small and there would be too many objections to fight).

Still lies though whichever way you put it.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Why not tell me what anger we have seen then from the majority of people on here or in Coventry itself? Or the local press? The city and many CCFC fans rolled over and let it happen basically because it fucked up SISU once and for all, that's all that matters to most people. Doesn't matter who was involved with the sale or the devastating affect it had on our club. And it has achieved nothing as SISU are still here with little hope they will be leaving any time soon. And when they do? We'll still be renting from Wasps with no income. We're fucked.

As I said this wouldn't have happened in Newcastle, Leeds, Manchester or anywhere else.

of course it wouldn't no other owner would have been that stupid to let it go that far, unless they had a plan B.
Problem is our owners have never heard of Plan B.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Haha! So when CCC lie it's a "bluff". Just like the "bluff" when we came back from Sixfields and they were talking about ownership despite having done a deal with Wasps. Or the "bluff" from Ann when she said she only agreed to the sale as she was told it wouldn't damage CCFC. Bingo!

Blah blah blah

 

[Astute]

I said there were people on here who only had anger at Fisher and SISU. I said CCC get away with it scot free, I don't think I ever said "Astute, you only have anger for, etc etc".

Apologies

 

[torchomatic]

Blah blah blah

Wouldn't have expected anything less from you.

 

[torchomatic]

Apologies

No worries, didn't mean to infer you at all.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Wouldn't have expected anything less from you.

Of course you wouldn't you Grendel and all the others that moaned like Bitches did nothing to try and stop it.
Excuses about time changes work etc but did nothing to try and organise anything.
Left it to others then never turn up.

 

[torchomatic]

Of course you wouldn't you Grendel and all the others that moaned like Bitches did nothing to try and stop it.
Excuses about time changes work etc but did nothing to try and organise anything.
Left it to others then never turn up.

Work isn't an excuse for me, I have a mortgage to pay. So you've blamed me and Grendel for not protesting, what about the thousands of CCFC fans or the 300 odd thousand who live in the city. Or the Sky Blue Trust who actually went to go and see Wasps. I know you'll blame me for most things as that's what you do, but can you tell me what the excuse was for everyone else?

 

[the rumpo kid]

23 games left , about 49 points needed to stay up, so 10 wins should do it ! Can anyone here really see that team winning 10 out of 23 ? I cant see them winning another 5 at the moment.