Another Nice..but this time in Berlin (2 Viewers)

[wingy]

There is an internal investigation going on to find out how Bachmann had information which was correct- before anyone else had announced it and the Pakistani was still the official suspect. More and more information is coming out that it was common knowledge in security circles that Berlin was to be targeted at Christmas. They even knew he was involved in planning something.

Yeah there Was a resident interviewed by the Beeb last night who lived near the mosque or a facility related to it which the security services had shut down yet they were all still meeting up there.

 

---

[martcov]

Ah the usual, a post from you backed up by the two other left wing 'tolerant' (naive) liberals.

That's the thing, I'm not remotely right wing, it's just a label used by people like you to stigmatise anyone that doesn't agree with you. It's what the progressive left does now, and it's predictable and boring.

Also, in response to your closing sentence, a big part of the troubles that have been caused recently are due to philosophies such as yours being implemented, but those feelings are not the norm anymore. You might have a safe space on a small corner of this forum, but the silent majority generally don't agree with you out there, in the big wide world.

Thinking that a criminal right Wing yob knows what he's talking about implies that you are less than remote from his views.

The troubles in the ME are not caused by liberals or tolerance. They have spread to us because of intolerance and these cxxts would love us to stop being tolerant. They want to go out in glory and spend the rest of eternity screwing 42 virgins. We have been bombing the area to bits and have invaded Iraq and Afghanistan which has pissed a lot of people off. Hardly the policies of tolerant naive liberals.

I blame greed for oil and stupidity shown by people believing in magic beings in the sky.

Don't blame us.

 

[CCFC Germany]

You might have a safe space on a small corner of this forum, but the silent majority generally don't agree with you out there, in the big wide world.

Calling roughly 10% a "silent majority" sounds pretty daft to me.

 

[Nick]

Terror attack in Turkey

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Terror attack in Turkey

Oh don't Nick, haven't you seen the comments above? It's all our fault.

 

[Sick Boy]

The 'silent majority' line didn't work for the BNP and I can't see it working for Robinson and the EDL either.

 

[Evo1883]

I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that whilst the majority of Muslims may be peaceful , there is a very dark side to the religion that needs addressing, I don't know how but it does .
The open door policy Europe has adopted is a problem because people are not being checked , that is clear when the Berlin attacker can travel from Berlin to Italy unnoticed.

Blame the west , blame Blair blame bush whatever, but you can find Islamic terror incidents going back donkeys years

 

[Sick Boy]

I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that whilst the majority of Muslims may be peaceful , there is a very dark side to the religion that needs addressing, I don't know how but it does .
The open door policy Europe has adopted is a problem because people are not being checked , that is clear when the Berlin attacker can travel from Berlin to Italy unnoticed.

Blame the west , blame Blair blame bush whatever, but you can find Islamic terror incidents going back donkeys years

Does the murder or Jo Cox mean that all those in support of EDL/Britain First are terrorists too? How do you suggest we address the dark issues surrounding these white British men?

What % of the billions of Muslims in the world are supporters of terrorism? What has religion got to do with psychopaths using it to justify their sick actions?

 

[Evo1883]

Does the murder or Jo Cox mean that all those in support of EDL/Britain First are terrorists too?

What % of the billions of Muslims in the world are supporters of terrorism?

Does the murder or Jo Cox mean that all those in support of EDL/Britain First are terrorists too?

What % of the billions of Muslims in the world are supporters of terrorism?

I'm not quite sure that's a fair comparison to be fair , it's a weak way of trying to shift attention from a very serious issue.
For example the KKK killed less than 6000 people in an 80 year timeline , the killing of jo cox is not a religiously motivated killing is it ? It was an act of evil by an individual who was clearly mentally ill.

Muslims have killed hundreds of thousands of other Muslims in the name of their religion
Muslims have killed hundreds of Europeans in the name of their religion
Muslims stone homosexuals to death in certain countries
Muslims stone women to death for being out without a man in certain countries
Muslims gathered in their hundreds of thousands to demand the killing of people over a cartoon drawing

Now back to my original point , Islam whilst mostly peaceful has a dark side that needs addressing and as a liberal who believes in human rights , equality and other issues , you should really be agreeing otherwise you are not really liberal are you?

Time for excuses are gone , the religion needs reform just like Christianity went through some 1000 years ago

I don't care about the crusades or what Christians did a long long time ago ,I care about the world today , and this is an immediate problem we must tackle

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Does the murder or Jo Cox mean that all those in support of EDL/Britain First are terrorists too? How do you suggest we address these individuals?

What % of the billions of Muslims in the world are supporters of terrorism? What has religion got to do with psychopaths using it to justify their sick actions?

The amount of people killed by 'Britain First' supports, or right-wing fantasists is not even remotely comparable to the amount of people killed in the name of 'Allah'.

Yes, not all Muslims are terrorists, but most terrorists pledge their allegiance to Islam.

I'm not bashing Muslims, I just agree with EVO. The religion has a dark corner, and until it is addressed rather than swept under the carpet, the attacks of the Berlin market nature will continue.

 

[Sick Boy]

I'm not quite sure that's a fair comparison to be fair , it's a weak way of trying to shift attention from a very serious issue.
For example the KKK killed less than 6000 people in an 80 year timeline , the killing of jo cox is not a religiously motivated killing is it ? It was an act of evil by an individual who was clearly mentally ill.

Muslims have killed hundreds of thousands of other Muslims in the name of their religion
Muslims have killed hundreds of Europeans in the name of their religion
Muslims stone homosexuals to death in certain countries
Muslims stone women to death for being out without a man in certain countries
Muslims gathered in their hundreds of thousands to demand the killing of people over a cartoon drawing

Now back to my original point , Islam whilst mostly peaceful has a dark side that needs addressing and as a liberal who believes in human rights , equality and other issues , you should really be agreeing otherwise you are not really liberal are you?

Time for excuses are gone , the religion needs reform just like Christianity went through some 1000 years ago

Why is that a white British man is mentally ill, yet psychopathic Muslims aren't given the same label? I'd say that they are mentally ill as well.

Go and read the Bible and you will find equally abhorrent passages in there as well. Also, go out into the real world and meet new people, you'll find that the majority of Muslims are tolerant law abiding people.

 

[Evo1883]

Why is that a white British man is mentally ill, yet psychopathic Muslims aren't given the same label? I'd say that they are mentally ill as well.

Go and read the Bible and you will find equally abhorrent passages in there as well. Also, go out into the real world and meet new people, you'll find that the majority of Muslims are tolerant law abiding people.

Again , this man had a past of metal illness .
And he didn't kill jo cox in the name of his God , is it an act of terror ...ok let's say it is il go with that .
People in 2017(now) are not really killing thousands of people in the name of Christianity or God , maybe isolated incidents where they may be doing so , but at this moment in time Islam seem to house an awful lot of lunatics who act quite literally on any word in their sacred book .

Again , most Muslims are peaceful but the religion has a problem that needs addressing

 

[Sick Boy]

The amount of people killed by 'Britain First' supports, or right-wing fantasists is not even remotely comparable to the amount of people killed in the name of 'Allah'.

Yes, not all Muslims are terrorists, but most terrorists pledge their allegiance to Islam.

I'm not bashing Muslims, I just agree with EVO. The religion has a dark corner, and until it is addressed rather than swept under the carpet, the attacks of the Berlin market nature will continue.

The religion of Islam is not causing the attacks like Berlin. It's the actions of psychopaths who have hijacked it have caused them.

 

[Evo1883]

The religion of Islam is not causing the attacks like Berlin. It's the actions of psychopaths who have hijacked it have caused them.

The religion has a long history of being barbaric , the only Reason things changed was because of migration to the west and the generations of families growing up in a civilised country.

Spent many months in the Middle East with the British army ,to suggest all Muslims are peaceful is naive

 

[Sick Boy]

The religion has a long history of being barbaric , the only Reason things changed was because of migration to the west and the generations of families growing up in a civilised country

Hahahaha! You need to go and learn about history.

 

[Evo1883]

Hahahaha! You need to go and learn about history.

Enlighten me

 

[Sick Boy]

Go and find out for yourself. You might learn that the savages were way ahead of us while we were living in shit in Europe.

 

[Evo1883]

Go and find out for yourself. You might learn that the savages were way ahead of us while we were living in shit in Europe.

In the late 20th and early 21st centuries substantial numbers of non-native Muslims immigrated to Western Europe. By 2010 an estimated 44 million Muslims were living in Europe (6%), including an estimated 19 million in the EU (3.8%).[5]They are projected to comprise 8% by 2030. They are often the subject of intense discussion and political campaigns

This is what I was saying btw

And being ahead ? In what way living quality ? Depends what you view as quality btw , the attitudes in many Muslim countries today resemble that of the attitudes in Europe some 200/300 years ago.
Again defending the dark side of Islam is not really what a true liberal would do , as the religion still treats people like dirt in their own countries , and that goes against true liberal values.
Attitudes towards Homosexuals and women being the prime example of how far behind these countries are.
So as earlsdon says , you appear to be a part of the regressive left , preaching liberalism but defend things that go against liberalism , virtue signalling gets you nowhere
I didn't want an argument here , you seem incapable of accepting that this particular religion currently has a problem , whilst most are peaceful you seem unwilling to accept an alternative view instead trying to twist it on small isolated incidents to make my argument appear weak , when the opposite is happening
PS ...I'm a centrist

 

[Sick Boy]

In the late 20th and early 21st centuries substantial numbers of non-native Muslims immigrated to Western Europe. By 2010 an estimated 44 million Muslims were living in Europe (6%), including an estimated 19 million in the EU (3.8%).[5]They are projected to comprise 8% by 2030. They are often the subject of intense discussion and political campaigns

This is what I was saying btw

And being ahead ? In what way living quality ? Depends what you view as quality btw , the attitudes in many Muslim countries today resemble that of the attitudes in Europe some 200/300 years ago.
Again defending the dark side of Islam is not really what a true liberal would do , as the religion still treats people like dirt in their own countries , and that goes against true liberal values.
Attitudes towards Homosexuals and women being the prime example of how far behind these countries are.
So as earlsdon says , you appear to be a part of the regressive left , preaching liberalism but defend things that go against liberalism , virtue signalling gets you nowhere
I didn't want an argument here , you seem incapable of accepting that this particular religion currently has a problem , whilst most are peaceful you seem unwilling to accept an alternative view instead trying to twist it on small isolated incidents to make my argument appear weak , when the opposite is happening
PS ...I'm a centrist

All religions have got issues that need to be addressed and I am against discrimination against homosexuals and women. However, you'll find that this is a common theme amongst all religions.

What many appear to be doing is tarring all Muslims with the same brush as psychoaths committing mass murder. Doing so is only going to push more towards extremism and will not solve the issue.

 

[Evo1883]

All religions have got issues that need to be addressed and I am against discrimination against homosexuals and women. However, you'll find that this is a common theme amongst all religions.

What many appear to be doing is tarring all Muslims with the same brush as psychoaths committing mass murder. Doing so is only going to push more towards extremism and will not solve the issue.

I don't think " whilst MOST Muslims are peaceful" is tarring all Muslims with the same brush as terrorists.
And yes all religions have problems , Just at this moment in time , Islam has a big problem

 

[Captain Dart]

The religion of Islam is not causing the attacks like Berlin. It's the actions of psychopaths who have hijacked it have caused them.

You are deluded. Compare and contrast Islam to Buddhism or Hinduism.

 

[Grendel]

I don't think " whilst MOST Muslims are peaceful" is tarring all Muslims with the same brush as terrorists.
And yes all religions have problems , Just at this moment in time , Islam has a big problem

If this conversation was happening in the 70's would you be saying the same about the catholic religion?

 

[rob9872]

Go and read the Bible and you will find equally abhorrent passages in there as well. Also, go out into the real world and meet new people, you'll find that the majority of Muslims are tolerant law abiding people.

Why do people always defend Islam by quoting about the shite in the Bible? What about the many these days who actually don't belive in either and prefer the argument for evolution and don't hide behind either shit religion? Just an excuse for one set of nut jobs over another.

 

[Evo1883]

If this conversation was happening in the 70's would you be saying the same about the catholic religion?

its on a much smaller scale but Ireland did struggle massively with religious differences for a long while , so yes religion fuelled terrorism in Ireland and the U.K.

 

[Evo1883]

Let me make this abundantly clear , saying that Islam has a dark side that needs addressing does not mean I have a problem with Muslims , I'm saying I have a problem with the people who act on their beliefs that has resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands.

 

[Evo1883]

Why do people always defend Islam by quoting about the shite in the Bible? What about the many these days who actually don't belive in either and prefer the argument for evolution and don't hide behind either shit religion? Just an excuse for one set of nut jobs over another.

I'm atheist , Richard Dawkins is a brilliant watch if you get time to flick through some of his videos on YouTube

 

[martcov]

Let me make this abundantly clear , saying that Islam has a dark side that needs addressing does not mean I have a problem with Muslims , I'm saying I have a problem with the people who act on their beliefs that has resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands.

Yes, very worrying. Blair talked to god, as did Bush and now May is asking god for guidance. Gott mit uns was on German army belt buckles during the war. A coded reference to the bible was stamped on some USA army guns until very recently.

Möge Gott mit uns... Said Hitler, on the day he sent the largest military force ever in a line from the Baltic to the Black Sea to invade Russia.

Now even Putin is playing the religious card at home.

A nut job has just been elected to the US presidency - partly by right wing christians.

I too have a problem with power being held by people who talk to invisible beings in the sky. This is happening at this very moment - not in history books. Present day Christians are bombing Muslim countries - looking at it from their ( some of them ) point of view, we are the bad religious nuts.

The EDL, Britain First and fanatical Muslims would all like us to join in their religious wars. In that respect they have a common goal.

I for one aren't falling for it - that doesn't make me naive. On the contrary.

 

[mrtrench]

This is not personal about anyone here and I know that some of the comments here are from intelligent people. I'm generalising.

The conversation going on here exhibits exactly why I have a problem with the 'left wing' and the Labour party. Many of the fans get stuck on topics and groups and support/oppose them no matter what they do, seemingly unable to think each thing through individually they stick to the script no matter what.

Why aren't feminists trying to do something about the treatment of muslim women?
Why not speak out strongly about the bad things that Palestinians have done, or ISIS etc.?
Why the mantra from all of them that they want to 'fight the Tories'?
Why not admit that they fucked up the economy when they were last in power and say what they would do differently now? Ed Milliband came close to admitting it - he knew what they'd done. But he couldn't quite find the balls to come fully clean.
And why all the hyperbole when someone does state a truth about one of their faves? "Oh, if you have that opinion you must be a nasty racist".

In my mind it's just plain dumb (really dumb - cannot think for myself so I'll spout the doctrine) and that's why I have no time for it. I have liberal views; but I'll think things through for myself thanks - I don't need to be given Animal Farm type mantras from Jeremy Corbyn.

 

[Evo1883]

Yes, very worrying. Blair talked to god, as did Bush and now May is asking god for guidance. Gott mit uns was on German army belt buckles during the war. A coded reference to the bible was stamped on some USA army guns until very recently.

Möge Gott mit uns... Said Hitler, on the day he sent the largest military force ever in a line from the Baltic to the Black Sea to invade Russia.

Now even Putin is playing the religious card at home.

A nut job has just been elected to the US presidency - partly by right wing christians.

I too have a problem with power being held by people who talk to invisible beings in the sky. This is happening at this very moment - not in history books. Present day Christians are bombing Muslim countries - looking at it from their ( some of them ) point of view, we are the bad religious nuts.

The EDL, Britain First and fanatical Muslims would all like us to join in their religious wars. In that respect they have a common goal.

I for one aren't falling for it - that doesn't make me naive. On the contrary.

Again , the biggest problem facing the world today is Islamic terrorists , even if we stopped all wars and bombing around the world , Islamic terror attacks would still happen because they have happened for many many years .
The longer people have this defensive attitude towards Islam the longer these atrocities will continue to happen .
Blaming the west also doesn't account for the amount of Muslims who have died at the hands of fellow Muslims since 632 AD , Religious differences and views leading to stoning , beheading and killing still happening today , some 1400 years later

It needs addressing .
Full stop

 

[Liquid Gold]

This is not personal about anyone here and I know that some of the comments here are from intelligent people. I'm generalising.

The conversation going on here exhibits exactly why I have a problem with the 'left wing' and the Labour party. Many of the fans get stuck on topics and groups and support/oppose them no matter what they do, seemingly unable to think each thing through individually they stick to the script no matter what.

Why aren't feminists trying to do something about the treatment of muslim women?
Why not speak out strongly about the bad things that Palestinians have done, or ISIS etc.?
Why the mantra from all of them that they want to 'fight the Tories'?
Why not admit that they fucked up the economy when they were last in power and say what they would do differently now? Ed Milliband came close to admitting it - he knew what they'd done. But he couldn't quite find the balls to come fully clean.
And why all the hyperbole when someone does state a truth about one of their faves? "Oh, if you have that opinion you must be a nasty racist".

In my mind it's just plain dumb (really dumb - cannot think for myself so I'll spout the doctrine) and that's why I have no time for it. I have liberal views; but I'll think things through for myself thanks - I don't need to be given Animal Farm type mantras from Jeremy Corbyn.

Why aren't feminists trying to do something about the treatment of muslim women?
They are. Have a look at campaigns related to FGM, there are of course Muslim feminists who also chose to wear hijab as they see no oppression in it.

Why not speak out strongly about the bad things that Palestinians have done, or ISIS etc.?
The Palestinian question is one of scale, Israel are illegally occupying Palestinian land, denying the people proper access to work, healthcare and even basic water supplies, when a people have no political option then some turn to violence and the response they receive is the bombing of children in hospital beds. My belief is that the first step to a lasting peace process is the Israelis moving back to internationally agreed borders, thats why more pressure is put upon them. The ISIS comment is silly, show me one person who hasn't condemned them.

Why the mantra from all of them that they want to 'fight the Tories'?
the tories are a party of the elite, inhabited, in a vast majority, by people who went to a few select schools and funded by wealthy people with certain business interests. In 6 and a half years of power they have defunded the NHS to breaking point so they can make a profit from a sale, forced millions of working people and their children to food banks and contributed to the death of thousands of disabled people with their humiliating benefit cuts. Why wouldn't you want to fight this party.

Why not admit that they fucked up the economy when they were last in power and say what they would do differently now? Ed Milliband came close to admitting it - he knew what they'd done. But he couldn't quite find the balls to come fully clean.
This is a strange one, firstly you might have seen a lot in the news lately about there being a division in the Labour party and people being laboured 'Blairites', this is a loose term for economically neoliberal MPs who's policies helped cause the crash and there is a battle to stop then gaining positions of power that could damage the economy. Secondly, the neoliberal policies that caused the crash were, in the vast majority, voted in by both sides of the house meaning the Conservatives need to share, at least a little of, the blame. Thirdly, this was a global financial collapse. What was considered sound financial practice all over the world turned out to be nonsense, to suggest this is a problem with the labour party is naive. In the US the Republican party has just been reelected, this is the party that helped cause the crash over there, with an even more neoliberal agenda, at least the labour party are attempting to reform their economic policies..

And why all the hyperbole when someone does state a truth about one of their faves? "Oh, if you have that opinion you must be a nasty racist".
Some people use the term racist to easily, some people use racist terms without realising that they are being so. There are problems on both sides of the debate with this. Racism however is an objective reality with a dictionary definition. The US has just elected a president that fits with this definition, think what you want about Trump but, through his speeches and interviews, he has been racist. From there it's not a massive jump to view his supporters under the same light, I personally could never vote for someone who was a proven racist. Then you have the issue of these moronic Britain First people who will gleefully say 'Muslims rape children' or some other moronic shit but when called out upon it they say "it's not racist its fact". My point being people, in general I'm not accusing you, need to have a better understanding of what constitutes racism

 

[Liquid Gold]

I'd also like to add that internationally the main source of radical Islam is the Wahabi clerics of Saudi Arabia. What are we doing to tackle this? Sending them weapons.

 

[mrtrench]

Why aren't feminists trying to do something about the treatment of muslim women?
They are. Have a look at campaigns related to FGM, there are of course Muslim feminists who also chose to wear hijab as they see no oppression in it.

Why not speak out strongly about the bad things that Palestinians have done, or ISIS etc.?
The Palestinian question is one of scale, Israel are illegally occupying Palestinian land, denying the people proper access to work, healthcare and even basic water supplies, when a people have no political option then some turn to violence and the response they receive is the bombing of children in hospital beds. My belief is that the first step to a lasting peace process is the Israelis moving back to internationally agreed borders, thats why more pressure is put upon them. The ISIS comment is silly, show me one person who hasn't condemned them.

Why the mantra from all of them that they want to 'fight the Tories'?
the tories are a party of the elite, inhabited, in a vast majority, by people who went to a few select schools and funded by wealthy people with certain business interests. In 6 and a half years of power they have defunded the NHS to breaking point so they can make a profit from a sale, forced millions of working people and their children to food banks and contributed to the death of thousands of disabled people with their humiliating benefit cuts. Why wouldn't you want to fight this party.

Why not admit that they fucked up the economy when they were last in power and say what they would do differently now? Ed Milliband came close to admitting it - he knew what they'd done. But he couldn't quite find the balls to come fully clean.
This is a strange one, firstly you might have seen a lot in the news lately about there being a division in the Labour party and people being laboured 'Blairites', this is a loose term for economically neoliberal MPs who's policies helped cause the crash and there is a battle to stop then gaining positions of power that could damage the economy. Secondly, the neoliberal policies that caused the crash were, in the vast majority, voted in by both sides of the house meaning the Conservatives need to share, at least a little of, the blame. Thirdly, this was a global financial collapse. What was considered sound financial practice all over the world turned out to be nonsense, to suggest this is a problem with the labour party is naive. In the US the Republican party has just been reelected, this is the party that helped cause the crash over there, with an even more neoliberal agenda, at least the labour party are attempting to reform their economic policies..

And why all the hyperbole when someone does state a truth about one of their faves? "Oh, if you have that opinion you must be a nasty racist".
Some people use the term racist to easily, some people use racist terms without realising that they are being so. There are problems on both sides of the debate with this. Racism however is an objective reality with a dictionary definition. The US has just elected a president that fits with this definition, think what you want about Trump but, through his speeches and interviews, he has been racist. From there it's not a massive jump to view his supporters under the same light, I personally could never vote for someone who was a proven racist. Then you have the issue of these moronic Britain First people who will gleefully say 'Muslims rape children' or some other moronic shit but when called out upon it they say "it's not racist its fact". My point being people, in general I'm not accusing you, need to have a better understanding of what constitutes racism

You've proved my point; seemingly unable to accept that the left's heroes aren't OK and instead attacking the left's villains; you've come back with the stereotypical left wing dogma:

- Very few feminists are doing anything about muslim repression of women. The silence is deafening. We hear plenty about patriarchy in the west however.
- Muslim good; Jew bad (Animal Farm). Both sides are bad in my opinion.
- Fight the Tories. Don't work with the Tories. Don't listen to what they say and make intelligent contributions. Don't understand the rationale of what they are trying to do and accept that there are many ways to improve the country and I don't have a golden opinion. Fight them; disagree with them; pigeon hole them; hate them; make generalisations; accept the mantra; everything is black or white. In my opinion they are the party that is most likely to bring greater wealth to the entire country just now. I don't care what school someone went to, I care about what they say and what they do.
- It is not naive. It is easy to stick to the mantra that it's a global recession and Tony Blair's fault. However in practice the recession was caused by two countries: the USA and the UK - the two biggest financial centres by a country mile. Greenspan and Brown and his disingenuous friend Balls - they did all the damage. I wish that Blair had the power to stand up to Brown but he didn't. This is something we could discuss in a thread all of its own and we have in the past.
- "Nasty" was the operative word I intended. For sure there are some nasty racists everywhere; but my point is the 'nasty' accusation - disagree with me and you're nasty. Vote to leave the EU and you're nasty. Try and balance the economy and you're nasty.

 

[Captain Dart]

 

[martcov]

The humanitarian act by Merkel was incredibly naive, as are you when it comes to this I'm afraid.

Yes, she could have been less naive and shown who is boss...... as Erdogan is doing. He is certainly no naive liberal leftie. His security is coming on a bundle...... oh wait......... perhaps not.....

 

[clint van damme]

Ah the usual, a post from you backed up by the two other left wing 'tolerant' (naive) liberals.

That's the thing, I'm not remotely right wing, it's just a label used by people like you to stigmatise anyone that doesn't agree with you. It's what the progressive left does now, and it's predictable and boring.

Also, in response to your closing sentence, a big part of the troubles that have been caused recently are due to philosophies such as yours being implemented, but those feelings are not the norm anymore. You might have a safe space on a small corner of this forum, but the silent majority generally don't agree with you out there, in the big wide world.

HAHA! Read the two bits in bold and then explain how you aren't being a massive hypocrite.