The pies and pasty issue - the plot thickens (39 Viewers)

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
A point is being missed here. We have come out and said it is beyond the control of CCFC, so we have said something, yet it seems that is not good enough, they are keeping us in the dark, etc. ACL gave a resounding "no comment" and unsurprisingly not a word.

Have you wondered why ACL said that? Have you been left to "guess what is going on"? from their side?

you're right Torch, but sisu themselves have to be a bit more proactive.

A simple it's not our fault statement isn't going to cut it if they're serious about building bridges and changing the mindset of many towards the wasps/CCC/ACL cartel.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
you're right Torch, but sisu themselves have to be a bit more proactive.

A simple it's not our fault statement isn't going to cut it if they're serious about building bridges and changing the mindset of many towards the wasps/CCC/ACL cartel.

Not disagreeing but a statement was released, which has to be taken at face value.ACL don't say a word and neither does anyone on here.

The club is damned either way.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Not disagreeing but a statement was released, which has to be taken at face value.ACL don't say a word and neither does anyone on here.

The club is damned either way.

Boy Who Cried Wolf innit? People have got to the point that even when Sisu are reasonable they don't accept it. (See my mistake in the other thread).
 

Colin Steins Smile

Well-Known Member
you're right Torch, but sisu themselves have to be a bit more proactive.

A simple it's not our fault statement isn't going to cut it if they're serious about building bridges and changing the mindset of many towards the wasps/CCC/ACL cartel.
Piegate is a distraction. The facts are that CCFC is a tenant and we have a contract with the operators. The details of that contract determine the services available and the specification of those services. Given that CCFC are not challenging the withdrawal of the pies, suggests it was not covered by the service level agreement. If blame is to be apportioned then it's the persons who negotiated the SLA
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
Boy Who Cried Wolf innit? People have got to the point that even when Sisu are reasonable they don't accept it. (See my mistake in the other thread).

As i said damned either way. If flipped and the club had been silent then there would be a meltdown on here. The club - CCFC - have said nothing to do with us, so i take that at face value especially when ACL are refusing to comment.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
Not disagreeing but a statement was released, which has to be taken at face value.ACL don't say a word and neither does anyone on here.

The club is damned either way.

that's why I was saying earlier they could have backed it up with some sort of gesture, sent someone into corporate to talk to the fans and hammer home the message that ACL are at fault, (the CET aren't going to print that story for sure).

It's like they're not really that fussed, there's a statement, take it or leave it.
They are up against in the PR war, there's no doubt, but for the sake of the club they need to try and engage a bit more.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
that's why I was saying earlier they could have backed it up with some sort of gesture, sent someone into corporate to talk to the fans and hammer home the message that ACL are at fault, (the CET aren't going to print that story for sure).

It's like they're not really that fussed, there's a statement, take it or leave it.
They are up against in the PR war, there's no doubt, but for the sake of the club they need to try and engage a bit more.

Again don't disagree but there's two sides to this but people are only interested in one side.

The club made a statement yet the other refuses to comment, yet all we hear is the statement isn't good enough. It's a lose-lose situation. I'm wasting my breath so i will give up now.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
Again don't disagree but there's two sides to this but people are only interested in one side.

The club made a statement yet the other refuses to comment, yet all we hear is the statement isn't good enough. It's a lose-lose situation. I'm wasting my breath so i will give up now.

I'm in agreement Torch, and I'd like that perception to change because ACL/wasps et al get a ridiculously free ride from many.
Just seems to me that sisu themselves aren't really too bothered. Leaves the likes of me and you banging our heads against a brick wall with everyone's position remaining entrenched and no end in sight the the endless rounds of bickering and moaning.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
There's no point crying about it Torch. That is unfortunately a rod that they made for their own back. Nobody else did it for them.

Not the kind of thing i would cry about.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
A point is being missed here. We have come out and said it is beyond the control of CCFC, so we have said something, yet it seems that is not good enough, they are keeping us in the dark, etc. ACL gave a resounding "no comment" and unsurprisingly not a word.

Have you wondered why ACL said that? Have you been left to "guess what is going on"? from their side?
Didn't OSB say that ACL don't usually make statements anyway?

It that's the case then their silence doesn't really mean anything does it?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Not the kind of thing i would cry about.

Could have fooled me. How many times have you brought it up on this thread alone? Of course people question anything that comes out of the club given the track record of the clubs officials giving out inaccurate, misleading, half truths to out and out fiction over the last few years especially why wouldn't you question everything that comes out of the club?
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
Didn't OSB say that ACL don't usually make statements anyway?

It that's the case then their silence doesn't really mean anything does it?

Ah well thats ok then. Club's fault.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
Could have fooled me. How many times have you brought it up on this thread alone? Of course people question anything that comes out of the club given the track record of the clubs officials giving out inaccurate, misleading, half truths to out and out fiction over the last few years especially why wouldn't you question everything that comes out of the club?

Look at me posting on topic in the thread. TBH, you're the last person who's opinion i would listen to.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
Again don't disagree but there's two sides to this but people are only interested in one side.

The club made a statement yet the other refuses to comment, yet all we hear is the statement isn't good enough. It's a lose-lose situation. I'm wasting my breath so i will give up now.
Only two sides?

I will say it again. But will put it a different way.

I have not blamed SISU for what has happened. What I have said is they could have been more clear. If what has happened is not their fault and we know who it is we can direct our displeasure at them. But we have been left to guess as usual.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
Only two sides?

I will say it again. But will put it a different way.

I have not blamed SISU for what has happened. What I have said is they could have been more clear. If what has happened is not their fault and we know who it is we can direct our displeasure at them. But we have been left to guess as usual.
Yep. I haven't blamed the owners either. It's just not clear exactly what has happened.

Just because something may be likely, it doesn't make it true.
 

ecky

Well-Known Member
Could be a good question from CWR or Talk Sports Jim White to chairman Tim Fisher next time he's on, not so much the no food but the fact it's been paid for and was it his decision or sisu's.
He wouldn't tell you the truth anyway!
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
Only two sides?

I will say it again. But will put it a different way.

I have not blamed SISU for what has happened. What I have said is they could have been more clear. If what has happened is not their fault and we know who it is we can direct our displeasure at them. But we have been left to guess as usual.

Yes i get that and i said so until i am sky blue in the face. People want clarification from the club but fail to mention ACL who have said bugger all, but that is just accepted without comment. Anyway, said it enough now so am bowing out.
 

ecky

Well-Known Member
Surely they still have staff though to serve the beer and cold stuff? That's what makes it weird.
I've heard they will be using the subs to serve the refreshments to save money
Got to break even and balance the books that's the most important thing
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
Yes i get that and i said so until i am sky blue in the face. People want clarification from the club but fail to mention ACL who have said bugger all, but that is just accepted without comment. Anyway, said it enough now so am bowing out.
I would be happy with clarification off any side.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
I've heard they will be using the subs to serve the refreshments to save money
Got to break even and balance the books that's the most important thing
Surely the subs will be part of the refreshments.

Doubt they will be footlongs though.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
I've heard they will be using the subs to serve the refreshments to save money
Got to break even and balance the books that's the most important thing

Lol, so amusing.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
Yet only complain about one....
It isn't complaining. It is stating that they are missing a chance for us to get behind them if it is the fault of someone else. But I am getting accused of having a go.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
It isn't complaining. It is stating that they are missing a chance for us to get behind them if it is the fault of someone else. But I am getting accused of having a go.

And have you stated ACL are missing a chance to keep us informed or just the club?
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
I don't quite get this.

I have never been one to blame Sisu for all and sundry, so think I am reasonably balanced (wife will say otherwise), but.......

ACL don't usually make statements and didn't here.

Sisu did make a statement and it wasn't very clear.

A lot of us would just like clarification. As Sisu are the only ones to make a statement people are suggesting they could have been clearer.

I would love for ACL to make a statement, but that doesn't look like it is going happen.

Maybe I am missing something, but there seems to be a bit of wailing and gnashing of teeth over a very small issue.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
If I had said ACL are missing a chance to blame SISU for something you would soon jump on my back.

I wonder why you put it like that ACL blaming SISU and not " what have ACL got to say about this"? But let's be honest no one cares what ACL has to say anyway.
 

christonabike

Well-Known Member
Lets not forget our brave owners who know what they are doing................

Coventry City will play their first home match of the season on Sunday in Northampton, 34 miles away from the Ricoh Arena, which was built only eight years ago. Supporters who have seen their club torn apart by bitter and petty disputes in recent years use epithets such as embarrassing, laughable and shambolic to describe their current plight. They are right: Rome is burning and plenty of people are fiddling.

The Sky Blues' sorry demise is a depressing tale of hedge funds, stadium revenue and complex company law. Some would argue it is the epitome of everything wrong with the modern game, where the fan is an afterthought behind profit, assets and stakeholders. Either way, it is perhaps the most disheartening of all downfalls in recent times because personal vendettas and rancorous relationships rather than overspending have left the situation at an alarming impasse, with a modern, state-of-the-art stadium facing the possibility of not staging a professional match for at least three years.

When contacted by the Guardian this week, the Coventry City ticket office claimed their phone lines had been "extremely busy" with requests for Sunday's game against Bristol City at Northampton Town's Sixfields Stadium. However, the figures paint a different picture. As of Friday morning the Sky Blues had sold only 491 season tickets for the current campaign, with a "guaranteed attendance" of just 1,200 for their opening home match in League One this season, of which 400 are for Bristol City fans.

The Sky Blue Trust has been vociferous in its protests against the groundshare. It organised a 5,000-strong march through the city, while blue ribbons have been put up around Coventry and will only be taken down when the club returns.

"Going to Northampton is just one nail in the coffin of this club," said the trust spokesman, Jan Mokrzycki. "Once fans stop going it is very hard to get them back and I think the club has been shocked by the vehemence of the opposition to the move."

Arena Coventry Limited, made up by Coventry city council and the Higgs Charity, is the company that owns the Ricoh Arena, which the club moved to in 2006 after leaving Highfield Road where they played in the Premier League up until 2001. The club were £50m in debt during the botched move to the Ricoh and could not afford a stake in the stadium, signing a deal as tenants that committed them to paying £1.3m in annual rent.

Sisu took control of the club in 2007 and relations with ACL have deteriorated since then, with the Mayfair-based hedge fund refusing to pay the high rent in April last year. There have been offers from ACL to reduce the rent – down to £400,000 per annum and even to £150,000 – in an attempt to salvage the situation, but the club has rejected them and claims that it deserves access to the matchday revenue at the stadium as a matter of urgency due to new financial fair play rules, which as a tenant it is not currently entitled to.

However, Mr Justice Males ruled in the high court this week – when an application from Sisu, that accused the council of acting unlawfully when buying out ACL's £14m mortgage debt in January, was thrown out – that the club "had caused rent to be withheld as a means of exerting pressure in their commercial negotiations", calling into question Sisu's intentions when refusing to pay for use of the Ricoh.

Last week part of the club, Coventry City Football Club Limited, was facing liquidation after it entered administration last season. A company voluntary arrangement was rejected by ACL, a creditor, meaning the club was docked 10 points by the Football League for a second successive season.

The administrator, Paul Appleton, appointed by Sisu when CCFC Ltd entered administration in March, selected Otium Entertainment Limited as the preferred bidder to take over the club during the process, although there was also a bid from the American multi-millionaire businessman Preston Haskell IV, introduced to the club by the former vice-chairman Gary Hoffman, a lifelong Sky Blues fan. Otium was founded by three former Coventry City directors who all have connections to Sisu, which is headed by Joy Seppala, meaning the club is effectively being run by the same personnel.

The chief executive, Tim Fisher, a banker specialising in financially distressed companies who was appointed in December 2011, agreed a deal with Northampton to stage Coventry's home matches at Sixfields for three years, potentially five, during which time the club claims it will build a new stadium in the Coventry area.

The club has agreed a £1m bond with the Football League with assurances that it will return to Coventry and says it is assessing a site at the Brandon speedway stadium and another in the south west of the city. However, the League chairman, Greg Clarke, admits he "does not know" if they will really build a new ground.

Asked whether he believed the club would build a new stadium, Clarke said: "I don't know, they haven't told me whether they will or not. Everybody is posturing to get a deal, people say things to create impressions. Unreasonable things are happening. We have no power over the stadium owners or the club to tell them how to run their businesses. At some point there will have to be a compromise.

"I can understand why the Coventry fans are outraged. If I was a fan I would be incandescent. But what would have happened if we had refused them permission to share grounds and they could not afford to play?"

The League has been criticised for its role in the saga. The Sky Blue Trust has labelled the organisation "toothless" while Hoffman, head of the Football Foundation charity that works alongside the Football Association, the Premier League and the government, implored it to do more.

Hoffman said: "I think the FA should ask whether the Football League is acting within its rules, because I'm not sure that it is. I'm not happy about the way the football authorities have dealt with this. If there was simply no other option on the table then I could understand it, but there clearly is – to play at the Ricoh at a reduced price."

Mokrzycki, who revealed that early discussions about the emergence of a phoenix club have taken place, said: "The Football League has just sat on the sidelines and said 'it's not up to us'. It's sad for Coventry but it's sad for football that the League has shown itself to be so toothless."

Coventry's latest manager, Steven Pressley, was appointed in March but was only able to sign his first player this week due to a transfer embargo imposed on the club. The Sky Blues previously signed promising players and sold them on at a profit, with Scott Dann, Keiren Westwood, Aron Gunarsson and Ben Turner all departing the club and going on to play at a higher level in recent seasons.

That successful policy was abandoned by Sisu, which admits that mistakes were made during its early tenure, when it ploughed significant funds into the club but could not prevent relegation from the Championship.

However, the decision to relocate to Northampton appears to be the nadir in the club's steady decline. Described by Fisher as "a commercial risk" and by Hoffman as "commercial suicide", the club believes that building a new stadium will provide financial benefits in the long term.

Yet the short-term damage could be catastrophic. The attendance for Coventry's first home game last season was 12,621. On Sunday that figure will be cut by approximately 10,000 and the majority of fans instead plan to attend a charity match at the Ricoh, where former players including Darren Huckerby and Noel Whelan will feature alongside local celebrities.

The club insists that it needs matchday revenue to comply with financial fair play, yet the shortfall in gate income given the decrease in ticket sales will be significant, while it has been estimated that the police costs for Coventry's home matches will cost Northampton taxpayers £70,000 per season.

ACL optimistically claims that the Ricoh will not be turned into a white elephant without the football club. The Higgs Charity wants to sell its stake in the stadium and the head of Coventry city council, Ann Lucas, would not rule out a sale of its stake when asked by the Guardian.

In reality, the club needs the stadium and the Ricoh Arena needs a football team. Both sides appear to have long forgotten this, as the Sky Blues edge closer towards the blackest of black holes.
 

Nick

Administrator
I don't quite get this.

I have never been one to blame Sisu for all and sundry, so think I am reasonably balanced (wife will say otherwise), but.......

ACL don't usually make statements and didn't here.

Sisu did make a statement and it wasn't very clear.

A lot of us would just like clarification. As Sisu are the only ones to make a statement people are suggesting they could have been clearer.

I would love for ACL to make a statement, but that doesn't look like it is going happen.

Maybe I am missing something, but there seems to be a bit of wailing and gnashing of teeth over a very small issue.
Tynan scope made the statement to fans didn't he?
 

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
A point is being missed here. We have come out and said it is beyond the control of CCFC, so we have said something, yet it seems that is not good enough, they are keeping us in the dark, etc. ACL gave a resounding "no comment" and unsurprisingly not a word.

Have you wondered why ACL said that? Have you been left to "guess what is going on"? from their side?
To avoid yet another misinformation exercise via a public slanging match...possibly to allow someone else to distract attention from something they don't wish to talk about?

...onwards & upwards PUSB
 

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