Coventry City fans to discuss possibility of supporter-led takeover (14 Viewers)

[Bennets Afro]

This meeting is not going to give you the plan, so do not expect it to. It will tell you how it could be done if there is a willing seller - which by all accounts there isn't, and how other clubs have got on. Fans ownership is not a single model there are options. This is early days and getting the ball rolling on one side of the equation. The Trust has however spent a decent period researching this and putting professionals in place, so this meeting is not a fact find for the Trust Board.

I would not get too hung up of the figures, there are plenty of ways to finance a deal. It should at least alert others that there is positive interest in the club by fans. That fans value it and are prepared to do something more than protest

There is of course risk attached to it. The whole thing could fail like some other clubs. It could also succeed.

Its question time, its time for the Trust to communicate with fans, hear their concerns and begin to answer questions about fan ownership

But one thing the mechanics of all this could provide is a safety net against the owners filing for insolvency, if that happened there would be no mad scramble by the Trust because they would have the mechanics and professional help in place.

My own opinion is the Trust is the last people JS would sell to but that's just my opinion.

I'd of thought that after all the years of trying to get rid of the owners and wanting a place on the board that they would already have things in place or at least know how to go about things.

 

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[Nick]

This meeting is not going to give you the plan, so do not expect it to. It will tell you how it could be done if there is a willing seller - which by all accounts there isn't, and how other clubs have got on. Fans ownership is not a single model there are options. This is early days and getting the ball rolling on one side of the equation. The Trust has however spent a decent period researching this and putting professionals in place, so this meeting is not a fact find for the Trust Board.

I would not get too hung up of the figures, there are plenty of ways to finance a deal. It should at least alert others that there is positive interest in the club by fans. That fans value it and are prepared to do something more than protest

There is of course risk attached to it. The whole thing could fail like some other clubs. It could also succeed.

Its question time, its time for the Trust to communicate with fans, hear their concerns and begin to answer questions about fan ownership

But one thing the mechanics of all this could provide is a safety net against the owners filing for insolvency, if that happened there would be no mad scramble by the Trust because they would have the mechanics and professional help in place.

My own opinion is the Trust is the last people JS would sell to but that's just my opinion.

So will it just be people from other clubs saying what they did effectively if the trust already know?

We have been told a few times there are already plans in place.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Its one thing the Members of the Trust Board understanding, for it to work the fans in general have to buy in to it. So that the general principles are known better, as is what can and cant be done.

Given the apathy to the Trust it is better in some respects to have people who have been through it to explain. They have experience as well as the knowledge

Any plan wont be Portsmouth or Swansea or Stockport it would be one tailored to CCFC

You can expect Trust members to be active in the explanation

 

[oldskyblue58]

I'd of thought that after all the years of trying to get rid of the owners and wanting a place on the board that they would already have things in place or at least know how to go about things.

That's exactly the point....... the Board might understand so its not a meeting to get them to understand it is one to get those thoughts out to the fans & members.

Been researching it for two years, but you still have to be flexible in thought.

The general principles are common to all fan ownerships, but few fans understand or take notice unless the need arises.

 

[Colin Steins Smile]

I can tell you now it is not a stunt and none of the old faces have been involved

Everything has to be explored, it might not work for CCFC, there might be better options, events may overtake it, but at least the Trust can make informed decisions and will have provided an option

The idea certainly seemed to rattle TF

A positive move, if only to explore the options on articles of association, general rules, etc. Obviously, the structure of any replacement business to the current one will need careful consideration, but has the potential to be more transparent and open to scrutiny

 

[Nick]

Might be a good one to live stream with a decent feed to periscope or something?

 

[chiefdave]

Didn't the Trust say they already had a plan in place for this? Would it not be a good idea to make that available to supporters ahead of the meeting as a starting point. Save wasting time at the meeting going over things that have already been discussed.

 

[IrishSkyBlue]

I live abroad but if fan foothold was placed in club where fans money was used somehow get ball rolling and starts something fan owned bit by bit id happily contribute a monthly fee long as i know when ever i visit for a game id get something back for supporting it. For example if money was towards us as fans owning academy squad or something, TF said about balancing the books if we want more funds towards squad and they offer fan owned parts run by us then id be up for sending money over long was done the right way!

 

[Otis]

A takeover is the wrong approach right now, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't attempt to get some sort of official foot hold in the governance of the club

Now here's a question, can a fan or fans own a player? The fan(s) finance the buying of a player and having a say it and when he is sold etc.?

Got a feeling they can in theory.

Would obviously have to be in conjunction with the manager actually wanting the player in question of course.

Has it ever happened and can it possibly work? Guess the buying would be easy enough, but problems would arise when the club want to sell the player and maybe the fans don't.

 

[Nick]

Now here's a question, can a fan or fans own a player? The fan(s) finance the buying of a player and having a say it and when he is sold etc.?

Got a feeling they can in theory.

Would obviously have to be in conjunction with the manager actually wanting the player in question of course.

Has it ever happened and can it possibly work? Guess the buying would be easy enough, but problems would arise when the club want to sell the player and maybe the fans don't.

Don't think you can now, wasn't that like the Tevez stuff?

 

[Manchester_sky_blue]

Now here's a question, can a fan or fans own a player? The fan(s) finance the buying of a player and having a say it and when he is sold etc.?

Got a feeling they can in theory.

Would obviously have to be in conjunction with the manager actually wanting the player in question of course.

Has it ever happened and can it possibly work? Guess the buying would be easy enough, but problems would arise when the club want to sell the player and maybe the fans don't.

The MyFootballClub thing came up against this when they bought Ebbsfleet. They tried using online voting for transfers etc but it very quickly became unworkable and was abandoned.

To my mind fans can't have a direct say in transfers. The only way it works is to have fan representation on the board elected by public vote.

 

[Brylowes]

It wouldn't be really with the Trust as it is, the whole thing would need a reform.

One day putting out statements having silly digs, the next day negotiating long term rentals deals with wasps? It would be "How much is it?", "We haven't worked it out yet, but if you sign now we will just add the price in","are you sure?","we hate sisu too remember","ok done".

Very similar to how SISU went about agreeing to pay the rent when they took us on then.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Not sure I have been clear enough so my apologies.

You will not get THE plan or the detailed plan. It isn't possible at this stage because of the lack of a willing seller and the information they hold including price - just too many variables. You will get the general plan, how it works, how finance can be sourced, what powers fans have, the pitfalls.

Rob S is right about the on going finance of working capital that's a big issue to solve.

I think I agree it would be good I think for the Trust send out a bullet point outline of the general plan before hand.

The Trust has the general plan and the required professionals in place to get the best advice. They have researched and worked on this for over 2 years, because of the fears that have been around concerning insolvency. The general plan was made first and foremost as a safety net against that possibility. It was never a plot for a hostile takeover of CCFC - frankly how could that happen in reality. "we want the shares" reply "no" end of conversation

 

[Otis]

The MyFootballClub thing came up against this when they bought Ebbsfleet. They tried using online voting for transfers etc but it very quickly became unworkable and was abandoned.

To my mind fans can't have a direct say in transfers. The only way it works is to have fan representation on the board elected by public vote.

But what if a City fan was a multi-millionaire and decided he wanted to buy a player for the club?

Could that work? Someone buys the player, the club pay the wages.

 

[covmark]

But what if a City fan was a multi-millionaire and decided he wanted to buy a player for the club?

Could that work? Someone buys the player, the club pay the wages.

I think that would be ok, as long as there is no third party ownership of the player.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

 

[Manchester_sky_blue]

But what if a City fan was a multi-millionaire and decided he wanted to buy a player for the club?

Could that work? Someone buys the player, the club pay the wages.

An individual can't own a players registration, only an FA approved entity - i.e a Club.

A fan could in theory put up the money to fund a transfer but they would have no say after the fact. Remember a while back fans could enter that Coca Cola funded competition to win £250k to fund a player purchase? Same principle applies.

 

[Nick]

But what if a City fan was a multi-millionaire and decided he wanted to buy a player for the club?

Could that work? Someone buys the player, the club pay the wages.

It would just be a loan or gift to the club wouldn't it?

 

[Captain Dart]

Realistically how viable is it? All we have pretty much seen is articles in the telegraph about being fan owned, fan owned statements etc. What's the plan already in place etc if we became fan owned?

Just hope it's not another stunt to get fans worked up and get some protests.

It isn't really about 100% fan ownership is it, that may work for smaller clubs but for a team that has realistic expectations of the Championship or beyond then some serious backing will be required. A fan stake is desirable and this time the fans must never ever give their small stakes to a hedge fund. Furthermore some form of fan representation at board level is needed and not one where the representative is the same person for years, that is too comfy.

 

[Otis]

I think that would be ok, as long as there is no third party ownership of the player.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

Was just fantasizing in my head. If a massive City fan won the lottery, but didn't wish to buy the club and didn't wish to invest with Sisu at the helm, maybe they could buy a player for the club.

The club would still have the right to sell him, but maybe would be much less keen to do so if a big chunk of the fee went to someone other than the club.

Guess that isn't feasible then. It would have to be a gift.

 

[Nick]

It isn't really about 100% fan ownership is it, that may work for smaller clubs but for a team that has realistic expectations of the Championship or beyond then some serious backing will be required. A fan stake is desirable and this time the fans must never ever give their small stakes to a hedge fund. Furthermore some form of fan representation at board level is needed and not one where the representative is the same person for years, that is too comfy.

Surely now all the trust would be buying is a share of debt to SISU / Their investors?

 

[chiefdave]

The same supporters direct who worked with the council's PR company?

Would be useful to clear up early on rather than it coming back to bite the trust down the line.

I think that this is a sensible move by the Trust although they will have been speaking to SD about it in private for a good few years. Hopefully Preston Haskell IV, Ray Ranson or Gary Hoffman aren't going to be involved

Absolutely, anything like this needs to be a totally fresh start.

One thing worth pointing out – remember our first opponents after we got relegated to the Championship? Stockport County? Have a look at how things went there to counter the success stories of AFC Wimbledon & Pompey before we get too excited.

Would be interesting to see a list of all clubs who have fan ownership, be it a minority or controlling share, and compare where they are now to where they were prior to fan involvement.

 

[chiefdave]

Might be a good one to live stream with a decent feed to periscope or something?

Or at least record it and stick it up on youtube for anyone that wasn't there, audio only would do.

 

[Manchester_sky_blue]

There are other options to gain fan recognition/involvement and put pressure on SISU. Buying the club could be an absolute minefield both legally and financially but what if the Trust raised the money to purchase a piece of land to create a permanent home for the Academy and then rented it to the club at a very preferential rate, with the profits invested back in to the Academy.

SISU would be hard pressed to say no to it and the fans would gain a degree of control and help to ensure the future of the Academy at the same time.

 

[Captain Dart]

Surely now all the trust would be buying is a share of debt to SISU / Their investors?

No one wants the debt, that is SISU's problem, I don't care if they lose a lot of money.

 

[Speedies_Chips]

Would have to do the fans funding type things where you get things back in return, basically pimp everything out they can in return for matchday treats, behind the scenes days etc. A good thing as it would build up a bit of pride too.

I'd have no quarms chucking in what I could behind a solid plan.

Qualms.

 

[Captain Dart]

I can tell you now it is not a stunt and none of the old faces have been involved

Everything has to be explored, it might not work for CCFC, there might be better options, events may overtake it, but at least the Trust can make informed decisions and will have provided an option

The idea certainly seemed to rattle TF

is that why Les Reid's mate Rob_S has rocked up and posted for the first time in ages? Funny that Nick hasn't realised.

 

[Nick]

is that why Les Reid's mate Rob_S has rocked up and posted for the first time in ages? Funny, Nick that hasn't realised.

I did, I just had a look through his Twitter and seen he's been to a fair few games travelling up from Brighton and he doesn't have multiple accounts. He's logged in a fair bit also from what I can see and also posted on other football related threads.

Are you really going to try and start throwing digs like that about when you still haven't replied to any of my PM's or questions about them in posts? :emoji_smile:

 

[Captain Dart]

I did, I just had a look through his Twitter and seen he's been to a fair few games travelling up from Brighton and he doesn't have multiple accounts. He's logged in a fair bit also from what I can see and also posted on other football related threads.

Are you really going to try and start throwing digs like that about when you still haven't replied to any of my PM's or questions about them in posts? :emoji_smile:

You keep defending SISU if you want, I won't be doing that.

 

[Nick]

You keep defending SISU if you want, I won't be doing that.

Give it a rest will you. Nobody is defending SISU.

Still notice you didn't reference the other bit, funny that isn't it?

Anyway, back to the meeting...

 

[robbiekeane]

Who has the millions then to "invest" in the club?

And by invest I mean gamble endless amounts of money then never expect it back otherwise they lack ambition

 

[Rob S]

is that why Les Reid's mate Rob_S has rocked up and posted for the first time in ages? Funny that Nick hasn't realised.

Honest answer? I'm procrastinating and saw a few threads that were interesting. If you paid attention, you'd notice that I drop in from time to time although I don't tend to get too involved these days because...well, what's the point? I go to most games these days so can have far better discussions about Cov in real life without any of the bollocks that tends to come with online chat.

As for this particular thread, I'm a member of the Trust, I organised the first ever supporters trust meeting in Cov (although the actual setting up of the trust was done later by other people, a couple of whom were at that original meeting at the supporters club in Freehold St) and I've always believed that supporters should have proper representation on the board of football clubs for me so it's a potentially interesting discussion.

Why do you care?

(Back to the actual discussion, thanks to OSB for clarifying some of the details. Hopefully people won't get too excited/worked up and things can move forward.)

 

[skybluetony176]

Would be interesting to see a list of all clubs who have fan ownership, be it a minority or controlling share, and compare where they are now to where they were prior to fan involvement.

There's a list on supporters direct website Dave.

What is Supporter Ownership? - Supporters Direct

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

It isn't really about 100% fan ownership is it, that may work for smaller clubs but for a team that has realistic expectations of the Championship or beyond then some serious backing will be required. A fan stake is desirable and this time the fans must never ever give their small stakes to a hedge fund. Furthermore some form of fan representation at board level is needed and not one where the representative is the same person for years, that is too comfy.

How does it work in Germany where I think fans own 51% of their club? Does financial backing come from the owner of the other 49%?

 

[Grendel]

There's a list on supporters direct website Dave.

What is Supporter Ownership? - Supporters Direct

Some real giants of football there

 

[RegTheDonk]

I would suppose you have a committee, elected by the fans, to make the "board" decisions.

Not too fussed about the mechanics, that can be worked out, I'd be more concerned how us fans are going to raise enough money to pay off the current owners. They won't sell, apparently, which means we want silly money to walk away.