Religious intolerance (10 Viewers)

[Otis]

It's not about haven or hell its more living life in all its fullness

To you, Pete, yes I am sure. But there are an awful lot of Christians out there that believe if you do not accept Jesus as your saviour you are going to hell.

 

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[Sky Blue Pete]

To you, Pete, yes I am sure. But there are an awful lot of Christians out there that believe if you do not accept Jesus as your saviour you are going to hell.

And make sure others know m by making everyone's life hell just so they can get used to what it's like lol

 

[ccfc92]

What about it?

Things like homosexuals must be put to death, women are to submit to men etc, have a place in today's world? (Not just Christianity, I said religion in general)

The "Love one another, as I have loved you" has some body to it though, IMO.

 

[ccfc92]

But isn't a lot of belief based on tradition and succession and the being brought up in Christian families and beliefs passed down?

The Christians next door are all Christian. The mum and dad have taken their kids to church, taught them their way of life and obviously told them that God is real and all about salvation and putting your faith in Christ.

The 4 kids are all home schooled so that indoctrinates them further. They are taught to believe in God.

First day we moved in the kids asked us 'What church do you go to?' I said we don't go to church. They looked shocked and completely baffled.

It's all they know, so I expect all 4 kids to stay Christians and then pass down their beliefs to their children and so forth. I guess in a lot of instances if your parents tell you something is true and tell it your every day there is a pretty good chance you are going to accept and believe it.

With my daughter I told her that I didn't believe in God, but that it was up to her and if she believed that was fine. I did that when she was about 6-7 and they started teaching RE at school.

I still say the same thing now, but she has already decided there is no God and she puts up great arguments as to why in class.

I am quite proud of her.

Go back 100 years, most of the populace would be religious, church on Sunday etc.

As people became more educated and science moved on, more and more people became less religious.

The more this moves on, and the less it's passed down, the less people will be religious, IMO.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Some studies show that the Second World War was a big part of society rejecting the notion of a benevolent father god rather than education.

It's interesting isn't it that despite significant challenges the Christian faith still has converts.

I've said on the thread that the bible couldn't be written about us and speak directly to many of our situations given it is over 70 books written over 4000 years by many different hands in many different styles. The overarching narrative is gods faithfulness to human kind. The Old Testament written by the Jewish nation all directing to the messiah, Jesus and the new to explain who he was, why he came and what he desires of his followers

People have a habit of blaming god for their misdeeds and biblical writers were no different. Our understanding of god evolved over the 4000 years his people wrote about him it seems bizarre to think our understanding should stop evolving for 2000 years or if there is a god that he doesn't want us to use all of who we are, including our intellect to seek to make god known to those around us.

 

[ccfc92]

Some studies show that the Second World War was a big part of society rejecting the notion of a benevolent father god rather than education.

It's interesting isn't it that despite significant challenges the Christian faith still has converts.

I've said on the thread that the bible couldn't be written about us and speak directly to many of our situations given it is over 70 books written over 4000 years by many different hands in many different styles. The overarching narrative is gods faithfulness to human kind. The Old Testament written by the Jewish nation all directing to the messiah, Jesus and the new to explain who he was, why he came and what he desires of his followers

People have a habit of blaming god for their misdeeds and biblical writers were no different. Our understanding of god evolved over the 4000 years his people wrote about him it seems bizarre to think our understanding should stop evolving for 2000 years or if there is a god that he doesn't want us to use all of who we are, including our intellect to seek to make god known to this around us.

So, you're saying the bible is irrelevant in today's society?

 

[ccfc92]

Some studies show that the Second World War was a big part of society rejecting the notion of a benevolent father god rather than education.

It's interesting isn't it that despite significant challenges the Christian faith still has converts.

I've said on the thread that the bible couldn't be written about us and speak directly to many of our situations given it is over 70 books written over 4000 years by many different hands in many different styles. The overarching narrative is gods faithfulness to human kind. The Old Testament written by the Jewish nation all directing to the messiah, Jesus and the new to explain who he was, why he came and what he desires of his followers

People have a habit of blaming god for their misdeeds and biblical writers were no different. Our understanding of god evolved over the 4000 years his people wrote about him it seems bizarre to think our understanding should stop evolving for 2000 years or if there is a god that he doesn't want us to use all of who we are, including our intellect to seek to make god known to this around us.

Regarding this, yes it is.

What drove them into such believe? How was it proven 100% to them. Was it a vision? An epiphany?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

So, you're saying the bible is irrelevant in today's society?

You need to contextualise and bring your own experiences into its meaning and ask God to speak through the ancient words. If you believe Jesus exists in the spiritual world now it's his spirit that can give wisdom but always in relation to wise friends. Again I think I said before there is a phrase in rabbinic teaching about living in the dust of the rabbi. Walking so closely with the teacher that the dust from his shoes is in your hair etc etc. Jewish rabbis would sit and discuss truths and decide on wisdom together. We've lost this sense of community wisdom and fallen for enigmatic powerful leaders who tell us what to think and act

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Regarding this, yes it is.

What drove them into such believe? How was it proven 100% to them. Was it a vision? An epiphany?

You'd have to ask others but mine is a mixture of many things but mainly my life makes more sense with my faith at the centre. Difficulties can be overcome, joy is more meaningful, my community shows me the love and care I haven't experienced in any other way

 

[ccfc92]

You'd have to ask others but mine is a mixture of many things but mainly my life makes more sense with my faith at the centre. Difficulties can be overcome, joy is more meaningful, my community shows me the love and care I haven't experienced in any other way

So is that a faith in God, or humanity?

 

[ccfc92]

You need to contextualise and bring your own experiences into its meaning and ask God to speak through the ancient words. If you believe Jesus exists in the spiritual world now it's his spirit that can give wisdom but always in relation to wise friends. Again I think I said before there is a phrase in rabbinic teaching about living in the dust of the rabbi. Walking so closely with the teacher that the dust from his shoes is in your hair etc etc. Jewish rabbis would sit and discuss truths and decide on wisdom together. We've lost this sense of community wisdom and fallen for enigmatic powerful leaders who tell us what to think and act

So, today, God is speaking to us all and telling us to accept homosexuals, treat women equally etc as apposed to 2000 years ago through better education etc? And the church is accepting this too?

 

[Sick Boy]

Jewish rabbis would sit and discuss truths and decide on wisdom together. We've lost this sense of community wisdom and fallen for enigmatic powerful leaders who tell us what to think and act

How is it 'community wisdom' when it is only powerful leaders discussing amonget themselves and then telling others what to think and act?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

So is that a faith in God, or humanity?

Both but humanity often lets you down

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

How is it 'community wisdom' when it is only powerful leaders discussing amonget themselves and then telling others what to think and act?

It's not that's my point.

 

[martcov]

Some studies show that the Second World War was a big part of society rejecting the notion of a benevolent father god rather than education.

It's interesting isn't it that despite significant challenges the Christian faith still has converts.

I've said on the thread that the bible couldn't be written about us and speak directly to many of our situations given it is over 70 books written over 4000 years by many different hands in many different styles. The overarching narrative is gods faithfulness to human kind. The Old Testament written by the Jewish nation all directing to the messiah, Jesus and the new to explain who he was, why he came and what he desires of his followers

People have a habit of blaming god for their misdeeds and biblical writers were no different. Our understanding of god evolved over the 4000 years his people wrote about him it seems bizarre to think our understanding should stop evolving for 2000 years or if there is a god that he doesn't want us to use all of who we are, including our intellect to seek to make god known to those around us.

What is the reasoning behind these studies, who carried them out and who paid for them?

Who chose WWII? I cannot see a concious rejection of God in favour of education.

Had more to do with the circumstances after Versailles. Christian nations seeking retribution not reconciliation.

Plus blaming a minority religion for Germany's woes fitted he long held Christian view that the Jews killed the messiah and should be punished for that.

Did England join in to reject god or to stop Germany becoming a European super power?

 

[Grendel]

If only war wasn't caused by religion.

Most wars aren't - the two world wars certainly weren't. Religion is used sometimes as a reason but power dominance and political change actually are always the reasons.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

What is the reasoning behind these studies, who carried them out and who paid for them?

Who chose WWII? I cannot see a concious rejection of God in favour of education.

Had more to do with the circumstances after Versailles. Christian nations seeking retribution not reconciliation.

Plus blaming a minority religion for Germany's woes fitted he long held Christian view that the Jews killed the messiah and should be punished for that.

Did England join in to reject god or to stop Germany becoming a European super power?

Was responding to the suggestion that the last 100 years as people became more educated they rejected god. I was saying people after the horrors of 2 world wars could no longer believe

 

[martcov]

Was responding to the suggestion that the last 100 years as people became more educated they rejected god. I was saying people after the horrors of 2 world wars could no longer believe

Rejection of god wasn't the reason for the wars. Germany and Britain were still very religious compared with today. I agree that talk of a loving god took a huge knock because of the wars. No sign of god or Jesus there.

 

[trevelfarandwide]

Was responding to the suggestion that the last 100 years as people became more educated they rejected god. I was saying people after the horrors of 2 world wars could no longer believe

People always have a choice in what they believe in, and it's usually social engineering and misplaced anger that draw people away from God. After what some people have been through, and are going through, with wars, famine, disease and other atrocities, then I really can understand why they will turn away from God; I've had the experience myself, during my darkest days of depression and loss and God really is the only one to vent your sorrow and anger at.

Thing is, the more educated I've become, since leaving the education system, the more I leaned towards God...strange, I know, but it's been a process of discovery and a journey towards something far greater than myself.

Man's inhumanity to Man is the greatest atrocity in this world; it's past, present and future. God is not responsible for Man's actions, however still, He will bear the brunt of society's blame.

For example, the war-torn country of Yemen; we see the appeals for donations on TV, and we willingly help because the images we see are heartbreaking. However...is this God's fault? Who is bombing the living crap out of Yemen, to subdue and bully it into submission? The answer really isn't surprising. A supposed 'ally' of Britain, no less.

 

[shmmeee]

Most wars aren't - the two world wars certainly weren't. Religion is used sometimes as a reason but power dominance and political change actually are always the reasons.

It's a tad harder to get people to follow you if you say "I'm doing this because I really want more power" rather than "Its God's will" though.

Case in point: The German Churches and the Nazi State

 

[Grendel]

Ive tried to read most of this curious thread. The most bizarre statement is that intelligent people are atheists and then Stephen Fry was quoted as an example. Fry is an odious repugnant individuals in my opinion. The fawning of him by the media is baffling. His views on many subjects and the things he says are repulsive.

 

[Grendel]

It's a tad harder to get people to follow you if you say "I'm doing this because I really want more power" rather than "Its God's will" though.

Case in point: The German Churches and the Nazi State

Well it isn't. The Great War had no religious agenda at all. Hitlers rise had to do with oppression and desperation of the people and the need to unify and return to pre Wiemar power.

The civil war, the Vietnam debacle, the atrocities committed by the communist block, the boer war have no religious significance at all.

 

[shmmeee]

Ive tried to read most of this curious thread. The most bizarre statement is that intelligent people are atheists and then Stephen Fry was quoted as an example. Fry is an odious repugnant individuals in my opinion. The fawning of him by the media is baffling. His views on many subjects and the things he says are repulsive.

Want to give some context to this rant? Google gives me very little.

Regardless, someone's niceness isn't related to their cognitive ability. Some of the nicest people I know are morons.

You know, for someone who posts on here constantly, you'd think you'd be a bit better at forming arguments.

 

[Grendel]

Want to give some context to this rant? Google gives me very little.

Regardless, someone's niceness isn't related to their cognitive ability. Some of the nicest people I know are morons.

You know, for someone who posts on here constantly, you'd think you'd be a bit better at forming arguments.

Well you haven't googled very hard have you?

Not surprising. Fry and his views regarding women are very easy to find. Equally the reason another poster made a remark on his comments regarding another issue raised regarding him on here are extremely easy to find.

No doubt as he is part of the cabal of left wing elitists that your type will see as progressive we can ignore his views on women, underage sex etc.

Fry is a well known atheist - he is also a mysoginist and a bigot and has made some very dubious comments in other areas as well.

 

[ccfc92]

Ive tried to read most of this curious thread. The most bizarre statement is that intelligent people are atheists and then Stephen Fry was quoted as an example. Fry is an odious repugnant individuals in my opinion. The fawning of him by the media is baffling. His views on many subjects and the things he says are repulsive.

I'm sure there's plenty of religious intelligent people, it doesn't make religion factual though.

Why, exactly?

 

[ccfc92]

Well you haven't googled very hard have you?

Not surprising. Fry and his views regarding women are very easy to find. Equally the reason another poster made a remark on his comments regarding another issue raised regarding him on here are extremely easy to find.

No doubt as he is part of the cabal of left wing elitists that your type will see as progressive we can ignore his views on women, underage sex etc.

Fry is a well known atheist - he is also a mysoginist and a bigot and has made some very dubious comments in other areas as well.

Do you mean Trevel's comments?

If it's so easy to find, why don't you put up some links. All I found when I googled, were extreme pages that made all sorts of random claims.

 

[Astute]

Well you haven't googled very hard have you?

Not surprising. Fry and his views regarding women are very easy to find. Equally the reason another poster made a remark on his comments regarding another issue raised regarding him on here are extremely easy to find.

No doubt as he is part of the cabal of left wing elitists that your type will see as progressive we can ignore his views on women, underage sex etc.

Fry is a well known atheist - he is also a mysoginist and a bigot and has made some very dubious comments in other areas as well.

So plenty of comments but no facts. How unusual for Grendel.

 

[hill83]

That's the end of that then. Captain Knobcheese Tossbollocks has waded in.

 

[martcov]

People always have a choice in what they believe in, and it's usually social engineering and misplaced anger that draw people away from God. After what some people have been through, and are going through, with wars, famine, disease and other atrocities, then I really can understand why they will turn away from God; I've had the experience myself, during my darkest days of depression and loss and God really is the only one to vent your sorrow and anger at.

Thing is, the more educated I've become, since leaving the education system, the more I leaned towards God...strange, I know, but it's been a process of discovery and a journey towards something far greater than myself.

Man's inhumanity to Man is the greatest atrocity in this world; it's past, present and future. God is not responsible for Man's actions, however still, He will bear the brunt of society's blame.

For example, the war-torn country of Yemen; we see the appeals for donations on TV, and we willingly help because the images we see are heartbreaking. However...is this God's fault? Who is bombing the living crap out of Yemen, to subdue and bully it into submission? The answer really isn't surprising. A supposed 'ally' of Britain, no less.

People don't always have a choice about religion. The penalty for Apostacy is death in some countries. Most people are indoctrinated as children by their parents or maybe at school or they just live in area where everyone else believes in some god and so follow suit. That is why you are into Jesus. Pure geographical chance. You could have been born in Saudi, then you be telling me how great Muhammad is and that he got your life back into perspective.

Man is not responsible for many natural disasters- you cannot get god off on those. Guilty if he exists.

 

[ccfc92]

That's the end of that then. Captain Knobcheese Tossbollocks has waded in.

Without providing any useful information or debate. Standard.

 

[ccfc92]

People don't always have a choice about religion. The penalty for Apostacy is death in some countries. Most people are indoctrinated as children by their parents or maybe at school or they just live in area where everyone else believes in some god and so follow suit. That is why you are into Jesus. Pure geographical chance. You could have been born in Saudi, then you be telling me how great Muhammad is and that he got your life back into perspective.

Man is not responsible for many natural disasters- you cannot get god off on those. Guilty if he exists.

No point wasting your time. You're a paedo lover and the anti-christ, so he's blocked you. Just like anyone else who disagreed.

 

[Grendel]

Without providing any useful information or debate. Standard.

What's standard? What do you want me to do lead you by the hand to the comments he has made?

Even the left wing press lambast him for his mysoginy of as one author described it - his hetrophobia.

Yasmin alebhai-brown - love her or hate her - is hardly an anti liberal figure is she;

Yasmin Alibhai-Brown: Fry's misogynistic view is of women as evil

Neither is this author;

Stephen Fry shocks feminists by claiming women don't really like sex

Fry lambasted the yew tree investigation and on news night made a comment - we shouldn't go after 60 year old rock stars who had sex with 14 year olds as they will be bragging about it now - or words to that effect. Now ask yourself this - if Donald Trump had uttered these words what would your reaction be?

The point is to espouse Mr Fry's views on religion as an advocate of the belief God does not exist is about as useful as asking the mccanns views on good child care. It's unsurprising he isn't given that he is essentially a bigot who clearly has a problem with everyone who is not like him.

I'm not a fan of he Coleman experience blogs - it's mostly conspiracy nonsense - but have a look st some of the posts made about Mr Fry. There are some references that are genuine regarding complaints, charity criticisms etc. As I say a lot is extremist but not all.

 

[Grendel]

So plenty of comments but no facts. How unusual for Grendel.

Well the facts are there for all to see.

It's just amusing you mocked a poster for showing only one example of an "intelligent" religious person yet yourself holds the absurd Fry as the torch bearer for the athiest debate.

Perhaps I'll nominate an intelligent religious person, Lord Winston. So on the one side we have the eminent and esteemed scientist and a Lord and on the other Lord Melchett.

 

[ccfc92]

What's standard? What do you want me to do lead you by the hand to the comments he has made?

Even the left wing press lambast him for his mysoginy of as one author described it - his hetrophobia.

Yasmin alebhai-brown - love her or hate her - is hardly an anti liberal figure is she;

Yasmin Alibhai-Brown: Fry's misogynistic view is of women as evil

Neither is this author;

Stephen Fry shocks feminists by claiming women don't really like sex

Fry lambasted the yew tree investigation and on news night made a comment - we shouldn't go after 60 year old rock stars who had sex with 14 year olds as they will be bragging about it now - or words to that effect. Now ask yourself this - if Donald Trump had uttered these words what would your reaction be?

The point is to espouse Mr Fry's views on religion as an advocate of the belief God does not exist is about as useful as asking the mccanns views on good child care. It's unsurprising he isn't given that he is essentially a bigot who clearly has a problem with everyone who is not like him.

I'm not a fan of he Coleman experience blogs - it's mostly conspiracy nonsense - but have a look st some of the posts made about Mr Fry. There are some references that are genuine regarding complaints, charity criticisms etc. As I say a lot is extremist but not all.

I agree, the comments made in these articles are quite baffling.

However, I don't see why his opinion on religion can be dismissed due to these comments? The valid, well thought out points he makes about Religion still make sense and are relevant.

The question wasn't "what do you think of Heterosexuals", or, bizarrely, the McCann's child caring abilities, it's a debate on how religion can be proved or disproved.

At least you've actually provided some debate and evidence though, unlike that poisonous Trevel.

 

[Sick Boy]

Well you haven't googled very hard have you?

Not surprising. Fry and his views regarding women are very easy to find. Equally the reason another poster made a remark on his comments regarding another issue raised regarding him on here are extremely easy to find.

No doubt as he is part of the cabal of left wing elitists that your type will see as progressive we can ignore his views on women, underage sex etc.

Fry is a well known atheist - he is also a mysoginist and a bigot and has made some very dubious comments in other areas as well.

There are plenty more members of the elite in this country who deserve anger directed at them than the likes of Fry.

Farage would be a good place to start....