4waspsting
Active Member
Your going to struggle with a 8,000 fuckin fan base, the other 20,000 have finished. football is finished in the lower reaches
Coventry City fans to discuss possibility of supporter-led takeover (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter skybluebeduff
- Start date
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Bit dramatic mate. If cov produce a good side that is top of the league the fans will always come back.
At the moment people have given up I agree with that.
Covcraig@bury
Well-Known Member
Totally agree , this club is fucked.. I like many of my friends never missed a game home or away for over 25 years or so.. even living up north travelling to mid-week games on the south coast. Now I struggle to stay awake on match days to listening to S B Player ... Sisu have almost completed their mission by Destroying and ripping the heart and soul out of our once great and proud city... NOPM... STOP BUYING SEASON TICKETS !!!! Lets bleed these Horrible fuckers of the only thing they want , and thats ££££££££££££££££££
Yes because staying away will really hurt sisu ... Not. They'll just cut the budget to suit, next idea please
Covcraig@bury
Well-Known Member
If everyone stays away they have no income.. My Business relies on people wanting my product , If the product is shit then I will not receive any income..It really is that simple.NO income No company !!!
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
another one who can't be arsed watching the dross but tries to dress it up as NOPM. Just admit you can't be bothered with it, no one will blame you.
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
How about pack out the Ricoh every week and line their pockets and STILL see fuck all investment put back into the team...... Yeah! great idea!
Esoterica
Well-Known Member
I disagree with this. I really think that the connection has been killed for a decent chunk of the casual fan base and it's going to take a lot more than just being top of a league to get them back. I live away from Coventry now for 10 years and prior to that my Dad was a 4 or 5 home games a season type fan. For the first few years he'd still go to games with me whenever I was back, we'd talk CCFC on the phone for a few minutes each week etc. Now CCFC gets a mention twice a year, he knows none of the players and he'd much rather look after his granddaughter when I'm back, than go up the city. He's not rushing back when we're top of league 2 in October.
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
Totally 100% agree with that. There is no other reason for SISU to stay than they have got to be making money some way or another.... *In voice of the Geordie on Big Brother* YOU DECIIIIIIDE.
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clint van damme
Well-Known Member
I don't see packing the stadium as about getting sisu to invest, I see it as about showing potential buyers what they can have, you have often argued on here about our potential and I have agreed with a lot of the points you've made with regard to it.
Otis
Well-Known Member
jimmyhillsfanclub
Well-Known Member
FFS...NOPM will not work!
Please read OSB58's many posts to understand why.......
OSB58 spelled it out, even in the simplest of terms so even the likes of us dumb SBT users could understand.....
...but apparently, there were still a few who were too busy chatting at the back & missed it...
Please read OSB58's many posts to understand why.......
OSB58 spelled it out, even in the simplest of terms so even the likes of us dumb SBT users could understand.....
...but apparently, there were still a few who were too busy chatting at the back & missed it...
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Fully agree with everything you just said but if it was new owners who relied on fan income and cared about your friends who have given up and we are top of league 2 at Christmas then they very well might. They are disenfranchised but if they feel part of it again they could come back like many others
Covcraig@bury
Well-Known Member
If we packed out the Ricoh every game do you really think Sisu would re-invest ???? really???? and packing out the Ricoh every game would bring in potential buyers... all this would do is put the price up.... Anyone who knows about football will already know the potential fan base of this City..
Get shut of Sisu and watch the trickle of stay away fans start returning including myself.. NOPM and NO Season tickets until they have left the Building !!!!
Get shut of Sisu and watch the trickle of stay away fans start returning including myself.. NOPM and NO Season tickets until they have left the Building !!!!
Otis
Well-Known Member
If we packed out the Ricoh every game we would most certainly look like a more desirable takeover and investor proposition.
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
My point is, it won't matter one iota if we packed the Ricoh or not. SISU will not invest in the team. As for showing "Potential Buyers". They will already know what CCFC can and will offer them, once these "Non interested" owners go.
Generally Midfield
Well-Known Member
Got to give it to the Pompey supporters trust for what they've achieved but anyone believe the Sky Blue Trust can do the same given the recent Steve Brown episode, welcoming Wasps, Jan saying administration would be good etc?
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
I don't know the full story behind what Pompey have done but I'd imagine the back story is along the lines of shit owners run club into the ground, fans unite behind cause of saving club.
Our situation is a lot more complex with a lot more parties involved, (I think).
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
It is interesting to compare the Portsmouth 2015 accounts to say the Otium ones for the same period.
available on these links
Portsmouth PORTSMOUTH COMMUNITY FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED - Filing history (free information from Companies House)
Otium (CCFC) OTIUM ENTERTAINMENT GROUP LIMITED - Filing history (free information from Companies House)
To compare things like
Turnover
the break down of turnovers
Interest paid
the debt levels
the wages costs
the investment in infra structure of the club
the investment in players
the level of player trading
the repayment of football creditors
The objectives and achievements set out in the directors reports
On the back of a 5.5m investment in Pompey's case
Ok no outright success on the pitch as yet after 3 full years now of fan ownership (2014-15 16th 2015-16 6th presently 4th in 2016-17) but they win more than they lose and are at the right end of the table
Not going to pretend it has been or will be plain sailing or that there might not be problems ahead or that the case is the same for CCFC (particularly turnovers) but it does make you think or it should at least not mean you dismiss fan ownership so easily as some do
available on these links
Portsmouth PORTSMOUTH COMMUNITY FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED - Filing history (free information from Companies House)
Otium (CCFC) OTIUM ENTERTAINMENT GROUP LIMITED - Filing history (free information from Companies House)
To compare things like
Turnover
the break down of turnovers
Interest paid
the debt levels
the wages costs
the investment in infra structure of the club
the investment in players
the level of player trading
the repayment of football creditors
The objectives and achievements set out in the directors reports
On the back of a 5.5m investment in Pompey's case
Ok no outright success on the pitch as yet after 3 full years now of fan ownership (2014-15 16th 2015-16 6th presently 4th in 2016-17) but they win more than they lose and are at the right end of the table
Not going to pretend it has been or will be plain sailing or that there might not be problems ahead or that the case is the same for CCFC (particularly turnovers) but it does make you think or it should at least not mean you dismiss fan ownership so easily as some do
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
I don't think anybody dismisses the concept. The problem is that every time it's described in CCFC context it's as a Trust-led thing which is where the cynicism comes in.
I personally don't have a problem with the Trust, I think they come across as a bit naive at times and possibly a bit too emotive (who isn't?).
you're an idiot
New Member
This notion that we need to pack the stadium to show potential investors the true level of support is nonsense. They've on got to look at past attendance figures including those that were during those false dawns under SISU to gauge that. Yes there will be a fair proportion of fans that won't return as it's broken the routine of when they'd go with their mates etc but the majority would return under another owner. It would probably give the whole town a huge lift that they'd be new fans that are caught up in the whole hysteria. Add to that an owner that engages the local community like wasps have (the home support is now largely based locally) and you can see a sustainable model emerging. Without offending anyone by claiming they're disillusioned by thinking otherwise you're an idiot
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
IMO they need to answer the following questions clearly and coherently.
How will the club keep ticking over in the off season?
Will the club be financed on a 'game by game' basis?
How would the club gain credit/finance facilities to adequately run the club on a day-to-day basis?
How will the club keep ticking over in the off season?
Will the club be financed on a 'game by game' basis?
How would the club gain credit/finance facilities to adequately run the club on a day-to-day basis?
georgehudson
Well-Known Member
I believe a supporter led take-over of the club could work really well.
As long as the sisu clique were removed completely, this being the case I firmly believe, the missing tens of thousands would come back.
In talking to hundreds of stay away fans, their answer, almost unanimously has been, not til that bloody lot go.
So, who are they?
I'd certainly welcome a detailed investigation, to find out who, actually owns CCFC.
I believe that if you own less that 10% then you don't have to be named, so there must be at least 11 different parties involved.
If it is possible to gain that information, a factual list of all of the persons who have mis-managed THEIR monies, should be sent to them, with the question, 'Did you realise your investment is being frittered away'?
If the total debt figure as trotted out to us, is £70+m, so each investor, on that basis is £7m down.
If I were one of the owners, I'd certainly be asking what the bloody hell is going on.
PUSB
As long as the sisu clique were removed completely, this being the case I firmly believe, the missing tens of thousands would come back.
In talking to hundreds of stay away fans, their answer, almost unanimously has been, not til that bloody lot go.
So, who are they?
I'd certainly welcome a detailed investigation, to find out who, actually owns CCFC.
I believe that if you own less that 10% then you don't have to be named, so there must be at least 11 different parties involved.
If it is possible to gain that information, a factual list of all of the persons who have mis-managed THEIR monies, should be sent to them, with the question, 'Did you realise your investment is being frittered away'?
If the total debt figure as trotted out to us, is £70+m, so each investor, on that basis is £7m down.
If I were one of the owners, I'd certainly be asking what the bloody hell is going on.
PUSB
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Fan ownership is a great concept but I really struggle to see how we can do it with the unique position we are in. Hopefully the Trust have a workable plan they can share with us.
The Portsmouth fans played a big part in rescuing their club and fair play to them for that but it is vastly different to our situation.
They purchased out of administration and the FL openly stated they would only issue the golden share to a bid involving the trust despite other, higher, bids being made.
The administrator took the former owner to court and got the ground for £3m, the local council then loaned the club the money to buy it.
A local property developer (a Spurs fan so not even a supporter) put in a large amount in return for the club requesting the council remove a usage restriction on land belonging to the club adjacent to Fratton Park, they then sold that land to him and its now a Tesco.
At the point of the takeover they were also still due £9m in parachute payments.
Despite all that and the fans raising £2m they only briefly had majority ownership. Not long afterwards they had to dilute their 51% as more money was needed.
And as you say after that and having over 12K season ticket holders they still can't get out of L2.
Can anyone realistically see us getting 12K for a game, let alone in season tickets, for a third season in L2?
The Portsmouth fans played a big part in rescuing their club and fair play to them for that but it is vastly different to our situation.
They purchased out of administration and the FL openly stated they would only issue the golden share to a bid involving the trust despite other, higher, bids being made.
The administrator took the former owner to court and got the ground for £3m, the local council then loaned the club the money to buy it.
A local property developer (a Spurs fan so not even a supporter) put in a large amount in return for the club requesting the council remove a usage restriction on land belonging to the club adjacent to Fratton Park, they then sold that land to him and its now a Tesco.
At the point of the takeover they were also still due £9m in parachute payments.
Despite all that and the fans raising £2m they only briefly had majority ownership. Not long afterwards they had to dilute their 51% as more money was needed.
And as you say after that and having over 12K season ticket holders they still can't get out of L2.
Can anyone realistically see us getting 12K for a game, let alone in season tickets, for a third season in L2?
Thing that immediately jumps out to me is £1.2m hospitality income. Anyone who has been to Fratton Park will tell you how poor their facilities are and how unsuitable they are for generating non-matchday income. Really highlights one of the big issues we face.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
No one said we need to, and can you explain the last sentence?
How dare we support our team?!?! Accounts prove they don't take money from the club were are self sufficient in a way, bigger crowds = better budget. It would be ran the same way if the trust took over so deal with it
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
It certainly would, but I'd like to think that the trust would run it that way as part of a bigger plan that involved securing where we play our games in the short to medium term, saving the academy, and moving away form totally over hauling the squad every 3 or 4 moths to a more settled model that allowed our team to develop.
4waspsting
Active Member
Love a bit of Drama, but we are talking supporter take over.
Still , supportive words for SISU and there business plan !
Sorry but its way past bad owners . The attitude and comment from Tim and Joy has made this whole debacle personal .
Joy loses money ,her reputation is damaged , Joy sinks a company and loses more money her reputation is shot.
Let SISU die and pick up the pieces
CCFC isnt a golden share its thousands of football fans
Sorry but its way past bad owners . The attitude and comment from Tim and Joy has made this whole debacle personal .
Joy loses money ,her reputation is damaged , Joy sinks a company and loses more money her reputation is shot.
Let SISU die and pick up the pieces
CCFC isnt a golden share its thousands of football fans
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
Lmfao. 9+ years says differently. So YOU deal with it!
So when our crowds were bigger (in the championship) our budget wasn't bigger than now?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
As far as anyone can tell money isn't being taken out so as I see it increasing the crowds does two things:
1) increases the money coming in to the club therefore giving us more to spend. Sure when it comes to it that might not happen but that's a fight to have then rather than just dismissing the idea on the basis of something that may or may not happen.
2) makes us more attractive to potential new owners. If people see good crowds they are more likely to be interested. Its all well and good saying people know crowds will come back if SISU don't but how does anyone, particularly non-CCFC fans who haven't followed things closely, know that. Its basically Ranson's plan repeated. He thought he'd come in, sign some players and crowds would increase. When they didn't his plan fell apart.
1) increases the money coming in to the club therefore giving us more to spend. Sure when it comes to it that might not happen but that's a fight to have then rather than just dismissing the idea on the basis of something that may or may not happen.
2) makes us more attractive to potential new owners. If people see good crowds they are more likely to be interested. Its all well and good saying people know crowds will come back if SISU don't but how does anyone, particularly non-CCFC fans who haven't followed things closely, know that. Its basically Ranson's plan repeated. He thought he'd come in, sign some players and crowds would increase. When they didn't his plan fell apart.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Yes the hospitality stands out - it would be interesting to see the matching direct costs - so do a number of other things I pointed to
However the one figure that stuck in my mind was the wages costs that were 5.1m in L2 and they still broke even on the profit & loss.
Entirely different set up I know and yes they have had assistance financial and otherwise but the "fans" seem to be doing a decent job in safeguarding their team so far .
A fans buy out for CCFC has four problems above all
- getting a willing seller at a realistic price
- raising the money from fans or partners
- the creating working capital once they have control
- managing the expectations that CCFC is a big club when in reality it can not afford to be for the immediate future (3 or 4 years at least)
Plenty of problems to overcome but worth exploring ........ probably works best with high net worth partners and buying out of administration..... important thing is to be in a state of readiness in case the club existence really does become an issue, a safety net
However the one figure that stuck in my mind was the wages costs that were 5.1m in L2 and they still broke even on the profit & loss.
Entirely different set up I know and yes they have had assistance financial and otherwise but the "fans" seem to be doing a decent job in safeguarding their team so far .
A fans buy out for CCFC has four problems above all
- getting a willing seller at a realistic price
- raising the money from fans or partners
- the creating working capital once they have control
- managing the expectations that CCFC is a big club when in reality it can not afford to be for the immediate future (3 or 4 years at least)
Plenty of problems to overcome but worth exploring ........ probably works best with high net worth partners and buying out of administration..... important thing is to be in a state of readiness in case the club existence really does become an issue, a safety net