hopesprings
Well-Known Member
WTF .......?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Could have been. I remember someone doing it just after being appointed.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Strachan only kept us up in 1997 by virtue of the fact that Middlesborough had points deducted, i.e. he relegated us twice.
hopesprings
Well-Known Member
Thanks for clarifying shame NW had to be so cryptic..still each to their own :happy:
Colin Steins Smile
Well-Known Member
Exactly!
If the System the manager is operating in is deficient, then the chances of success are remote. JH was able to enhance and develop our club due to clarity of vision and being given the resources to deliver. Under SISU successive managers have been operating on short term muddled leadership from the board.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No Tony nice try though
Grendel
Well-Known Member
What about pre-Sisu - Under Sisu excluding Milne which is a huge distortion managers have lasted longer. In the early 80's the churn was huge
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Think you have! Black and Robbins aren't successes for me as they weren't here long enough. Wouldn't say they were failures either though, that would be harsh.
Pressley is a weird one as he had to deal with Sixfields so he gets a OK as well.
Statistically you'd have to say Adams was the most successful and 8th is by far the best we've done in recent years. Although how much of that was down to him and how much down to Wise coming in is debateable.
Was Nilsson a failure? 44 win % Think he was a bit hard done by. After us he went to GAIS (Gothenburg) and got them promoted. Then on to Malmo where he won the league and then Copenhagen where he was sacked after 6 months when they were top of the league!
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Hence why I included post-SIllett, arguably our last sustained period of success.
Now it could be argued that the club was still run as a club relatively well until Robinson bought his way in, and the management shifts don't reflect my argument as a whole - I could buy that to a degree, if honest, although the Butcher appointment was one made without an appropriate knowledge of what was required at that stage, and saw Poynton slip into a bit of the Robinson/Richardson trap of being dazzled by name and profile above all else. Because of that, though, you'd probably have to blame the board first for making such an unsuitable appointment.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
You are being very selective - look at post Milne and pre-Sillett when managers turned regularly. Which was fine as that achieved the objective - survival
Neal was sacked as his whole profile collapsed after the documentary - he was portrayed as a fool and it did him no favours at all
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Not *that* many managers, and I'd say the big mistake then was actually getting rid of Sexton, who was doing what clubs such as us need to do, and building a strong core of youth players. Hill may have been a good manager, but wasn't so hot in planning as Chairman...
Neal was sacked mainly for profile.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
People wax lyrical over Sexton but his record was actually terrible - even worse than Don Mackay
Colin Steins Smile
Well-Known Member
However, the governance structure and investment in the club maintained us in the first tier of English football. At that time, we had a SYSTEM in place, which compensated for some of the churn in management. The current SYSTEM has seen us relegated from 2nd Tier to potentially the 4th Tier of English football. Additionally, the governance structure for CCFC would not meet the standards that DCMS recommend for British Sport. Therefore, we must question the System & Governance of the club, as it's not producing improvements in performance on the pitch.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
You keep saying that like it's a complement to SISU. This is exactly why AT was here too long, AB was here too long, SP was here too long. If TM wasn't such a decent chap would he still be here? And more recently Venus was in the caretakers position too long not only possibly losing us a better option than Slade and at least leaving it too late to give Slade a fighting chance of survival.
RegTheDonk
Well-Known Member
I recall Smith was brought in because Neilson wasn't "tough" enough with the players, something like that. We were flying without the bald eagle, totally upset the apple cart and was a decision I think really cost us.
Probably a good example to debate the carrot or stick style of management.
Probably a good example to debate the carrot or stick style of management.
Wyken Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Also Frank Bunn and John Harbin; the rugby coaches!
That game against WBA in the cup and the defenders raised their arms for offside after a throw-in...
Jimmy Hill's Chin
Well-Known Member
Only managers who I think did a decent job in past 27 years were Nilsson, Adams and Robins. Strachan did well for the first 2-3 years. I think the managers who have damaged us the most were Reid (we seemed to decline in status under him), Coleman (had an amazing squad for the Championship and nearly got us relegated), Thorn (worst manager ever who got us relegated) and Mowbray (shocking summer recruitment got us relegated).
Jimmy Hill's Chin
Well-Known Member
Harbin was an Aussie rugby coach. Bunn was an 80s footballer, played for Oldham.
Jimmy Hill's Chin
Well-Known Member
Pretty sure we were in the relegation zone when Dowie got sacked. Aside from the win at Old Trafford his record was poor.
Jimmy Hill's Chin
Well-Known Member
Personally feel Nilsson and Adams deserved longer in the job. I wouldn't really criticise any of the other sackings aside from Eric Black but (a) he was only a caretaker and (b) I don't wish to reopen that old chestnut!
Jimmy Hill's Chin
Well-Known Member
Adrian Heath is another caretaker who wasn't up to much. How many games has Oggy managed?
Brylowes
Well-Known Member
Been out all day living life, but I was always safe in the knowledge that on my return, I would log on too find
That you had come up with the answers needed so that I can rest my troubled mind. Thank You.:emoji_sleeping:
Jimmy Hill's Chin
Well-Known Member
Marks out of 10:
Butcher 4 - squandered Sillett's legacy and never endeared himself to fans.
Howe 5 - very negative tactics and hardly any wins.
Gould 6 - like his first spell, an early flash in the pan following by a steep decline in form.
Neal 7 - on the plus side, kept us in the top division when money was tight. On the down side, Julian Darby.
Atkinson 5 - over the hill and wasted a golden opportunity to progress the club.
Strachan 6 - good for first three seasons and we played some excellent football. Lost his way in the end and started the death spiral by presiding over our relegation.
Nilsson 6 - showed great potential and should not have been sacked. Has gone on to prove his ability.
McAllister 4 - great player, decent guy but poor manager.
Black 7 - a good cameo which should have been extended.
Reid 3 - considering his reputation from Sunderland he did a very poor job.
Adams 7 - played some of the best football I have seen during our 8th place finish with Dennis Wise. Seemed to really care for the club unlike some others.
Dowie 5 - one or two good cup results but League form very disappointing. We killed off his promising managerial career.
Coleman 4 - Nearly got a squad which included Dann, Gunnarsson, Ward, Fox and Morrison relegated to League One. Wasted money on the likes of Eastwood, McIndoe and Bell.
Boothroyd 6 - Bit of a forgotten man. Started well but undermined by SISU. Perhaps deserved a bit more time in hindsight.
Thorn 2 - Worst.manager.ever!
Robins 8 - If he had been supported I'm convinced he would have got us back into the Championship. Thanks Sisu!
Pressley 6 - Did well to keep us up during the Northampton debacle but we were heading for League 2 by the time he was sacked.
Mowbray 5 - Squandered our best start for many years and disastrous recruitment has led us to be relegation certainties.
Venus 6 - Got this season's awful squad to win a few league matches which is more than Mowbray or Slade have done.
Slade 3 - Not won a league match in first three months. Rivalling Thorn for ineptitude.
Butcher 4 - squandered Sillett's legacy and never endeared himself to fans.
Howe 5 - very negative tactics and hardly any wins.
Gould 6 - like his first spell, an early flash in the pan following by a steep decline in form.
Neal 7 - on the plus side, kept us in the top division when money was tight. On the down side, Julian Darby.
Atkinson 5 - over the hill and wasted a golden opportunity to progress the club.
Strachan 6 - good for first three seasons and we played some excellent football. Lost his way in the end and started the death spiral by presiding over our relegation.
Nilsson 6 - showed great potential and should not have been sacked. Has gone on to prove his ability.
McAllister 4 - great player, decent guy but poor manager.
Black 7 - a good cameo which should have been extended.
Reid 3 - considering his reputation from Sunderland he did a very poor job.
Adams 7 - played some of the best football I have seen during our 8th place finish with Dennis Wise. Seemed to really care for the club unlike some others.
Dowie 5 - one or two good cup results but League form very disappointing. We killed off his promising managerial career.
Coleman 4 - Nearly got a squad which included Dann, Gunnarsson, Ward, Fox and Morrison relegated to League One. Wasted money on the likes of Eastwood, McIndoe and Bell.
Boothroyd 6 - Bit of a forgotten man. Started well but undermined by SISU. Perhaps deserved a bit more time in hindsight.
Thorn 2 - Worst.manager.ever!
Robins 8 - If he had been supported I'm convinced he would have got us back into the Championship. Thanks Sisu!
Pressley 6 - Did well to keep us up during the Northampton debacle but we were heading for League 2 by the time he was sacked.
Mowbray 5 - Squandered our best start for many years and disastrous recruitment has led us to be relegation certainties.
Venus 6 - Got this season's awful squad to win a few league matches which is more than Mowbray or Slade have done.
Slade 3 - Not won a league match in first three months. Rivalling Thorn for ineptitude.
rupert_bear
Well-Known Member
Of that lot I would consider 9 of the failures to be experienced some like Howe, Reid and Atkinson very experience top division managers so crowing about recruiting so called provern managers Is not necessarily the answer. If I was interviewing our next would be manager I would ask 2 questions. With our current players at your disposal write down your first eleven and why and the same question if you were picking the England first eleven and why remember the whole country is at your disposal with that one, that would tell me a lot on how he want us to play, formations and tactical nous
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I think labelling Strachan's run as manager as a failure is a bit harsh. We had some really enjoyable seasons under his watch, although he clearly had his faults (some dodgy signings, his aversion to John Alosis and Gary Breen, his love of Paul Telfer and the Paul Williams/Richard Shaw centre half pairing). His undoing was having the goals ripped out of the team in his final season with losing McAllister and Keane, and then replacing them with Bellamy. Unfortunately he just stayed on too long. Didn't Richardson reject his resignation after West Ham thumped us 3-0 in the September of our relegation season?
If you want a real failure look at Coleman - that squad should have been challenging at the top of the table and he had us scrapping at the bottom.
I think Adams's reign will always be tainted, for me, by the fact that he spent the McSheffrey money on Kevin Kyle and Leon McKenzie.
If you want a real failure look at Coleman - that squad should have been challenging at the top of the table and he had us scrapping at the bottom.
I think Adams's reign will always be tainted, for me, by the fact that he spent the McSheffrey money on Kevin Kyle and Leon McKenzie.
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Grendel
Well-Known Member
Accurate assesment. Boothroyd I agree with if only as it would have prevented the complete nightmare that followed
OffenhamSkyBlue
Well-Known Member
One question: How are we defining success vs failure??? As a City fan for 35 years, I would regard repeated mid-table mediocrity and avoiding relegation as success!
PS Hoofroyd was NEVER a 6. No better football than Slade. How he has got the England U21 job is a sign of the times.
PS Hoofroyd was NEVER a 6. No better football than Slade. How he has got the England U21 job is a sign of the times.
JimmyHillsbeard
Well-Known Member
Strachan. The first time we were saved only by Bryan Robson refusing to take middlesbro to a league game because he had a cold and consequently got a points reduction.
Mind you between the 'two' relegations (and with - or due to - McA out with a long-term injury) he also built the best CCFC team I've ever seen that went on a 20 game unbeaten streak and should have won the 1998 FA Cup.
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
1) 8th in the Championship is a million miles better than 8th in L1
2) 100% agree with that.
OffenhamSkyBlue
Well-Known Member
Tim Flowers still lives round the Warks area. Saw him driving a Land Rover with the reg T1MGK last week. Can we get him back between the posts???
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Harsh on Strachan? We went backwards under him, a few enjoyable games doesn't really cut the mustard. I'd give him 2 out of 10 personally, as mentioned he relegated us twice.
It's all personal opinion, but I would see 2 out of 10 as very harsh for Strachan's tenure as a whole (what would you score the likes of Reid, Coleman and Thorn who had absolutely zero good times amongst the shit they served up?!)
Strachan finished 11th in his first full season. The second season we finished 15th despite losing our talisman in Dion fairly early on in the season. He then brought Keane to the club and we had the most exciting season in terms of home performances since I've been watching, admittedly though we were awful away from home that season.
That final Strachan season, now that was a 2/10 disaster, and I was definitely among those calling for his head from around November of that season onwards. I was delighted when he was sacked early on in the following season, and I doubt that he would have taken us back up if we had kept him on. But, we had three very enjoyable seasons under Strachan in the top flight. Yes, he spent a fair chunk of money, but he also had his best players sold off - Dion, Keane, Boateng etc all sold off for big profits. Ultimately he did fail in his final full season as he took us down, but I remember him being in charge of us during many more good times than the likes of Reid, Coleman, Thorn, Boothroyd, Dowie etc that followed him.
Gosford Green
Well-Known Member
Bobby Gould (Mk1 and mk2) gave us some great players and memories but left all to soon.
Roland Nilsson was undermined and had Jim Smith imposed on him by fucking McGinnty who later showed how useless he really was by sacking Eric Black whose only fault was getting us playing nice football and then appointing Peter Reid.
Mark Robbins built a side that if it was not for the brilliant decision to move to Sixfields would have got promoted, Pressley Inherited this side and for a while it performed well in front of 1000 fans but was eventually broken up. My guess is Robbins saw what was on the horizon and thought Huddersfield a better prospect.
Roland Nilsson was undermined and had Jim Smith imposed on him by fucking McGinnty who later showed how useless he really was by sacking Eric Black whose only fault was getting us playing nice football and then appointing Peter Reid.
Mark Robbins built a side that if it was not for the brilliant decision to move to Sixfields would have got promoted, Pressley Inherited this side and for a while it performed well in front of 1000 fans but was eventually broken up. My guess is Robbins saw what was on the horizon and thought Huddersfield a better prospect.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
You're wrong. We were 19th when Dowie was sacked. We finished 21st.
His win ratio was 40%