The Plan (5 Viewers)

[eastwoodsdustman]

Could CCFC in L2 run the stadium at a profit ?
I assume if Wasps fail CCFC would certainly fail.

I'm sure Sisu know that too. They must be after part of the land for something else I'd hazard a guess at.

 

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[Ian1779]

Break even appears to mean not competing in the league we are in.

Which essentially destroys the notion of a 'fan ownership' model

 

[Skyblueweeman]

I personally do not think they will win let alone get compensation if they did.
I just think that is the last throw of the dice and is their plan.

When is JR2? Do we have a date? Is it on pay-per-view?

 

[Skyblueweeman]

Did they think they could get better offers, which did not materialise. It's also seems that relegation wasn't really an option.
Personally I would have took the money and bought a striker.
Willis and Stevenson wouldn't have kept us up. A striker and a goalkeeper would have done.

They did get a 2nd and 3rd offer from Brentford though didn't they for Stevenson?

If they also only took a rumoured £50k for Vincelot, that would suggest that they'd take what they could get as RV was worth more than 50k.

 

[Rodders1]

They did get a 2nd and 3rd offer from Brentford though didn't they for Stevenson?

If they also only took a rumoured £50k for Vincelot, that would suggest that they'd take what they could get as RV was worth more than 50k.

Yes really strange - not sure how old or how long a contract Vincelot had - but 50k was a bargain for Bradford.

So it's very weird why they played hardball with Willis and Stevenson?

 

[skybluetony176]

Which essentially destroys the notion of a 'fan ownership' model

Not really. Do you think Portsmouth who also have a break even policy would enjoy the level of support that they do if the were owned by a hedge fund with a break even policy? I very much doubt it. If they don't pass us on the way up while we're on the way down we'll get to see hedge fund ownership with a break even policy Vs fan ownership with a break even policy next season. My money is on fan ownership winning that one.

What's AFC Wimbledon's policy? Are they ran on break even?

 

[italiahorse]

Which essentially destroys the notion of a 'fan ownership' model

Fans could still do that but don't expect to move up the leagues.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Not really. Do you think Portsmouth who also have a break even policy would enjoy the level of support that they do if the were owned by a hedge fund with a break even policy? I very much doubt it. If they don't pass us on the way up while we're on the way down we'll get to see hedge fund ownership with a break even policy Vs fan ownership with a break even policy next season. My money is on fan ownership winning that one.

What's AFC Wimbledon's policy? Are they ran on break even?

I don't think anybody has a 'policy' to run at a loss

 

[ceetee]

Not really. Do you think Portsmouth who also have a break even policy would enjoy the level of support that they do if the were owned by a hedge fund with a break even policy? I very much doubt it. If they don't pass us on the way up while we're on the way down we'll get to see hedge fund ownership with a break even policy Vs fan ownership with a break even policy next season. My money is on fan ownership winning that one.

What's AFC Wimbledon's policy? Are they ran on break even?

You would like to think that a fan owned break-even club would get more goodwill than a hedge-fund owned break-even club but the history of CCFC support does not suggest to me that the attendance would increase significantly. People go to watch football because they want to and there are a lot of fickle people in the potential fanbase. Resu;ts will always be more important than ownership. Break even is the same whoever owns the club and someone with experience told the Trust meeting that it wasn't sustainable above LI (Div 3) level.

 

[shmmeee]

"Break even" can mean a multitude of things. To imply it's a business model on it's own shows stunning lack of understanding.

You can break even by getting the same stuff more efficiently.

You can break even by cutting everything and damaging the business long term.

You can break even by increasing revenue.

You can break even over a rolling period of years.

You can break even over a monthly or weekly cycle.

To imply that there is one "break even" and that's the only way to do it is just wrong.

It's like looking at an anorexic and saying "losing weight" is a bad idea.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

Yes really strange - not sure how old or how long a contract Vincelot had - but 50k was a bargain for Bradford.

So it's very weird why they played hardball with Willis and Stevenson?

Agreed...from a selling point of view, this transfer window was a complete reverse of the previous few which strikes me as odd.

That said, from a purchasing point of view, we continued the trend of pretty much bringing in dross...

 

[Senior Vick from Alicante]

Can someone please explain to me how the wasps Bond scheme will fail? One would assume that if the payment schedule is not met any one that has bought a Bond would have a legal right to ownership of the Assets as part of a group action? If that's the case then, if it did fail any potential purchaser would have to deal with the bond holders to purchase the asset the bond was secured against.

 

[Suffolk sky blues]

Liquidation.after next season all options over.

 

[skybluetony176]

You would like to think that a fan owned break-even club would get more goodwill than a hedge-fund owned break-even club but the history of CCFC support does not suggest to me that the attendance would increase significantly. People go to watch football because they want to and there are a lot of fickle people in the potential fanbase. Resu;ts will always be more important than ownership. Break even is the same whoever owns the club and someone with experience told the Trust meeting that it wasn't sustainable above LI (Div 3) level.

I think you would get more good will from the community if nothing else boosting ticket sales. Take me for instance. I was talking to a mate who like me goes to games but can't commit to every home game due to commitments. Family in my case, work in his. He was asking me about the trust meeting with supporters direct and what was said and we agreed that not only if shares went on sale at £1k a pop as happened with Portsmouth we'd go halves on one we'd also both buy a season ticket on principle even though we both know that we'd be lucky to do half of all home games.

With a sense of ownership come's a sense of responsibility. Something we all lack at the moment under the current owners.

 

[trevelfarandwide]

Agreed...from a selling point of view, this transfer window was a complete reverse of the previous few which strikes me as odd.

That said, from a purchasing point of view, we continued the trend of pretty much bringing in dross...

Perhaps, just perhaps, they were indeed 'sold' under the conditions that the players would see out the season with CCFC. With Stevenson being the key asset in question, this could be why he isn't seeing much game time at the minute.

Where SISU are concerned, I wouldn't put any insidious, devious plot beyond them.

 

[gears87]

Who is too say that if sisu win jr2 that they will not just keep the winnings and leave Coventry City with the 40 million pound debt

 

[Brylowes]

As a professional club we are finished, just all about the timescale now which will probably Match
the timescale of the court proceedings, NOPM or not, protest or not it's all academic.
Our course is set. IMO

 

[IrishSkyBlue]

I'd still be tempted to say keep ryton and carry on with jr2 but hand ccfc over.

Then crowd fund a training ground over time after a share at a uni for a while or something.

Id happily buy a square foot of a training ground or something like pompey did.

this what i was saying before about fans starting off small buying bits for the club training ground ect least we get something going could hopefully snowball, i might live abroad but id happily buy into the club a small bit if fan owned.

 

[oakey]

Is it possible the likes of Stevenson Willis Harries are already sold, agreements in place but kept quiet?

 

[skyblueinBaku]

With a sense of ownership come's a sense of responsibility. Something we all lack at the moment under the current owners.

Our owners seem to lack that, too!

 

[harvey098]

Could someone explain to me how JR2 works? What are the rough timescales and what is actually being argued about? thank you (hopefully) in advance

 

[Skyblueweeman]

Perhaps, just perhaps, they were indeed 'sold' under the conditions that the players would see out the season with CCFC. With Stevenson being the key asset in question, this could be why he isn't seeing much game time at the minute.

Where SISU are concerned, I wouldn't put any insidious, devious plot beyond them.

Yeah potentially but it was the same with Maddison so why not do the same? Confirm the sale and loan back until the end of the season?

Surely it would have to be published by the FA/PFA as well?

 

[clint van damme]

So the plan would be to wait for Wasps to go bust, then continue on with the original plan to get the stadium ?
Again requiring a move out of Coventry waiting for ACL to fold.
Are there people out there that actually believe this is the way forward ?

I don't think moving things forward is of any consideration to our owners.

 

[clint van damme]

Which essentially destroys the notion of a 'fan ownership' model

but it's already working at other clubs.
Don't confuse the sisu version of break even with the version fan owned clubs try to implement.

 

[trevelfarandwide]

Yeah potentially but it was the same with Maddison so why not do the same? Confirm the sale and loan back until the end of the season?

Surely it would have to be published by the FA/PFA as well?

There is that, yes, I'm just clutching at straws to fathom SISU's method to rejecting approximately £3 million for players.

Makes no sense, unless there's more than meets the eye.

 

[1940oldfive]

I'm sure Sisu know that too. They must be after part of the land for something else I'd hazard a guess at.

for tim to build his new stadium

 

[shmmeee]

There is that, yes, I'm just clutching at straws to fathom SISU's method to rejecting approximately £3 million for players.

Makes no sense, unless there's more than meets the eye.

Club is breaking even so don't need the cash? Why does it need to be more than that. I doubt Sisu have much involvement day to day aside from saying whether they'll loan us more cash or not.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

There is that, yes, I'm just clutching at straws to fathom SISU's method to rejecting approximately £3 million for players.

Makes no sense, unless there's more than meets the eye.

SISU and logic don't work together so don't get too hung up on it!


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[Gint11]

One big problem. Wasps say they won't negotiate terms on stadium lease while court action continues...six fields again then?


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[dongonzalos]

Which essentially destroys the notion of a 'fan ownership' model

Not really, same as SISU but with owners whose decisions are purely based on what's best for the club. Not what is best for another business.

 

[Hadji's_Goatee]

Just posted this on the Accounts thread, but it really belongs here:

Sisu appear to be intent on cutting their losses by realising the value of the last few remaining assets - the young players plus Ryton - plus the gamble of getting compensation from JR2.

Then they will either find a buyer, or more likely, put the club into administration with the debts to Sisu and Arvo intact. The timecale is unknown, but at the moment, the end of next season looks a strong possibility. In the meantime, they will continue to cut costs in an attempt to break even. The slow death of the club will therefore continue and fans will continue to vote with their feet and with their wallets.

P.S. As a private hedge fund, it's inconceivable that Sisu do not have an exit strategy.

You're almost there. They are racking up the club debt up £2m in a year to £44m. Why? Because when we go into Admin the administrator will pay all creditors (basically SISU, through Avro) a certain level in a pound. Say they pay all debt at 20p in a pound that is £8.8m. Where will it come from? Hmm a conveniently priced up training ground - the last asset. It's as plain as the long wooden nose on Fishy Tims face!