Grendel
Well-Known Member
Yes they did. That also with a lease extension that was never allowed while the charity had tenure on the stadium.
Funny how a negative thread on wasps draws out the usual suspects
Wasps billing CCFC for pitch repairs after Wycombe game (10 Viewers)
- Thread starter Nick
- Start date
Yes they did. That also with a lease extension that was never allowed while the charity had tenure on the stadium.
Funny how a negative thread on wasps draws out the usual suspects
Nick
Administrator
You would think if they really cared about the charity they would have extended the lease and THEN sold it to Wasps with a nice bigger value wouldn't you so they could get all of their money back?
If PWKH went to run the Legacy Fund, would I really push it like I do? Very much doubt it!
If PWKH went to run the Legacy Fund, would I really push it like I do? Very much doubt it!
peeler
Well-Known Member
I'm not going to Wembley.
Nick
Administrator
Good! I take back that part of hypocrisy then, I just refer to when you went to games because we were winning after you said you wouldn't and NOPM
Delboy Trotter used to drive one!
Nick
Administrator
That would be a protest! Get a steward to leave the gate open and rock up like this on the bit between the stand and pitch.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately it's like society as a whole these days. Everyone is to blame apart from the cause of the problem.
Some idiot who knows right from wrong steals a lollipop mans stick and hurts him in the process. We get to hear all about the things in his life that caused it to happen.
Somebody repeatedly seriously attacks prison officers. Yet they are allowed to sue the government because they then had to spend too much time in isolation.
Wasps are nothing to me. They keep taking advantage of SISU screwing up our club.
Why would a council full of CCFC's fans including the leader at the time end up desperate to sell a stadium built for the football club to a random rugby club?
Why would a charity who built a purpose built academy facility in order to help out our football club. Sell that academy facility to a rugby club.
I repeat a charity built the facility to help out the football club.
What drove them to sell that facility to a rugby club.
Most people can see what has driven this situation. Most can see where the lions share of blame lies.
Most know it is not the football club but the owners of the football club and their decisions.
Most just see Wasps taking advantage of it. They did not cause it they are making the bloody most of it.
It's like you wanted to buy the business premises that you rented. You then tried every tactic in the book to get the price down. Even doing things to devalue the price. Your landlord sells it someone else. He then sells the outbuildings to someone else aswell.
Who do you get pissed off yourself for pushing the price down too far. The landlord for having enough of you and going elsewhere.
The person who stepped in did the business with no messing around and went a bit above the price you were aiming for?
The majority wishes Wasps were not here. That they didn't own ACL. That they don't now have control of the Higgs centre.
Most don't like Wasps.
However most know why they were welcome by the council/Higgs with open arms
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Nick
Administrator
The charity didn't sell it to a Rugby club, they sold it to CSF with a clause that the football club couldn't be there long term didn't they?
It is like Society where multiple people can be cunts, simple as that. 1 being a c**t doesn't excuse the other being a c**t.
SISU can be cunts for doing 1 thing, Wasps can be cunts for doing something else.
Let's not forget that the council leader told people that ACL was washing it's face (aka she lied publicly) which is again, the council being a c**t.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
One Trustee doesn't make a charity.
I am sure there will be an individual who works for most charities if you got to know them you would dislike. However that doesn't make the charity a bad thing.
Yes the value of ACL had been driven down for some reason unfortunately.
something sad about people that rummage through past posts.
Never said anything about misleading headlines .
Did I hit a nerve ?
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Most people know the reason that a charity that has supported the football so much would end up doing something so sad.
Nick
Administrator
So PWKH wasn't the face of them?
If somebody is the face of a charity and act up, it makes the charity look bad.
Nick
Administrator
I don't need to rummage through past posts, it's called having a memory.
No nerve hit, I am just waiting for you to point out the click bait. Can you give me some links to where there has been "click bait" placed?
You do realise "I must have hit a nerve" isn't really a proper reply don't you? It just means you can't think of anything else.
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
The same as Tim Fisher being the face of CCFC, funny you have never given him the grief you gave PWHK and others, yet he has done more to damage City then every other party in this put together.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Don't play dumb, if it wasn't true it would have been straight in the CT but instead we have Wasps / ACL refusing to comment.
Wasps said:
Nick
Administrator
Tim Fisher hasn't threatened legal action, Tim Fisher hasn't tried to have multiple accounts on here spinning shit. Read my other threads about what I think Fisher has done wrong, including the one saying he should go. Quite detailed really as well.
Strange, as half the rumours started on here by certain accounts were swallowed and repeated over and over
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Yes indeed, certainly wouldn't have happened had Derek Higgs still been alive.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
Is there more information than the Les Reid rhetoric then ?
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chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Just because the lease can only be extended by the current owner doesn't mean it has to be. The extra 200 years were sold for £1m. Given what the original lease sold for do you think that if the current lease had been left to expire then a new lease sold on the open market the price achieved would have been any less than the £1m? What has the taxpayer gained from the actions of CCC?
And of course the 200 year extension increases the value of the lease so why not extend the lease and then sell to Wasps?
Moff
Well-Known Member
He was clearly talking about something different, which you knew, but you just want to wum and peddle one of the same tired old lines.
Thank god we have the Wasps pawn Gilbert to equalise the SISU pawn Reid, still you choose to gloss over that fact as it doesn't fit your rhetoric.
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
You go on about multiple accounts only you know that.Tim Fisher hasn't threatened legal action, Tim Fisher hasn't tried to have multiple accounts on here spinning shit. Read my other threads about what I think Fisher has done wrong, including the one saying he should go. Quite detailed really as well.
Strange, as half the rumours started on here by certain accounts were swallowed and repeated over and over
Are all these multiple accounts only from one side of the fence?
Nick
Administrator
Strangely enough 99% have been.
Maybe the SISU ones are more clever about it
I am sure if I am making it up I will be getting threats of legal action won't I?
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
What could have may might have happened really has no relevance to what did happen in 2014. Can CCC prove a decent case as to value in 2014 . Doesn't matter that it didn't have to be granted it was and to the only entity that had the right to it. Selling an entirely new lease is something different. Not really interested in hypothetical situations its complicated enough without that and it is not good evidence against what happened no matter how reasonable it seems.
As for creating a longer lease prior to sale well yes would have been a good idea well before say in 2006. Was arguing that years ago and it is the single biggest mistake in the arena project. May never have got to any of the present situation.
Great_Expectations
Well-Known Member
Pathetic, embarrassing and hopefully highlights exactly why Wasps are a negative for those of us who support the football team.
Every time someone mentions Wasps it generates an immediate feeling of anger towards the Council. Reading something like this infuriates me even further.
What was the quote from CCC re selling to Wasps having no detriment to the football team?
Disclaimer - no this does not mean I am a SISU fan boy.
Every time someone mentions Wasps it generates an immediate feeling of anger towards the Council. Reading something like this infuriates me even further.
What was the quote from CCC re selling to Wasps having no detriment to the football team?
Disclaimer - no this does not mean I am a SISU fan boy.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Bloody hell no chance. When he was a director at CCFC. He would never had allowed any of the decisions over the last few years to have happened.
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
Who would know if you were making it up?Strangely enough 99% have been.
Maybe the SISU ones are more clever about it
I am sure if I am making it up I will be getting threats of legal action won't I?
How many people have access to be able to verify it, and who gives them that access?
hutch1972
Well-Known Member
The person who stepped in did the business with no messing around and wenta bitabovethe price you were aiming for?
And it was paid for by a re-mortgage , after the main man had repaid himself his initial funding.
Nick
Administrator
It's OK, you can believe I have made it up if you want. Bit stupid though, considering I know they love the legal threats.
John_Silletts_Nose
Well-Known Member
It is interesting to note that Wasps/ACL or whoever are charging in Euros rather than pounds.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Good! I take back that part of hypocrisy then, I just refer to when you went to games because we were winning after you said you wouldn't and NOPM
he slates one out of town hedge fund why banging the drum for another. I wouldn't take back e the hypocrisy part, he reeks of it.
peeler
Well-Known Member
One out of town hedge fund who have ran a football club into the ground, on the verge of relegation to the 4th division, are faceless, won't talk to the fans, have no interest in the football club.
as opposed to
One out of town hedge fund, who invest in top class international players, are top of the premier league, are in a European 1/4 final, who communicate regularly to their fans and who's ambition is to make them the top club in Europe.
But of course you'll see it differently.
I wish they owned the football club as well
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
The annual value of the lease extension in 2014 is not simply a matter of dividing the sum paid by the term. Valuers will try to arrive at the Present Value (PV) of the income streams that could be derived from the site by CCC over the period of the lease. The income streams that CCC could receive is basically ground rent. CCC have already received £21m for the original lease. The lease extension runs from January 2015 so over laps the original 2006 lease
a Present Value calculator tool can be found here Annuity Calculator - Present Value of Annuity ignore the $ signs the principle is the same (explanation of the terms are on the webpage)
at a rate of 3% the PV of £1m equates to an annual sum for 250 years of approx. £30,000 at a rate of 6% it is £60,000 for 250 years. Is that a reasonable annual ground rent for the site - no idea. I have read that ground rent is a 3-4 % return on the freehold value. We are told that the Freehold presently has little value to CCC. Yes that value will grow but it is at the date of the deal that's important.
Also is anything being paid annually so that the £1m is a premium? Does the ownership of the original create something that is added in to the overall value and the purchaser ACL gets credit for? How much did CCC factor in for the socio economic benefits of Wasps being there? Is the value to CCC the amount received £1m or can they argue it as something much more? (ie paid by other means)
This is not as clear cut as people make out and the value basis is not a simple calculation at all. Where that leaves things who knows - in court I guess
Talking of court, could the non movement on the JR2 be deliberate because SISU believe it creates uncertainty for Wasps (perhaps stops some income streams) and so puts pressure on Wasps financials, creating some bargaining power?
a Present Value calculator tool can be found here Annuity Calculator - Present Value of Annuity ignore the $ signs the principle is the same (explanation of the terms are on the webpage)
at a rate of 3% the PV of £1m equates to an annual sum for 250 years of approx. £30,000 at a rate of 6% it is £60,000 for 250 years. Is that a reasonable annual ground rent for the site - no idea. I have read that ground rent is a 3-4 % return on the freehold value. We are told that the Freehold presently has little value to CCC. Yes that value will grow but it is at the date of the deal that's important.
Also is anything being paid annually so that the £1m is a premium? Does the ownership of the original create something that is added in to the overall value and the purchaser ACL gets credit for? How much did CCC factor in for the socio economic benefits of Wasps being there? Is the value to CCC the amount received £1m or can they argue it as something much more? (ie paid by other means)
This is not as clear cut as people make out and the value basis is not a simple calculation at all. Where that leaves things who knows - in court I guess
Talking of court, could the non movement on the JR2 be deliberate because SISU believe it creates uncertainty for Wasps (perhaps stops some income streams) and so puts pressure on Wasps financials, creating some bargaining power?
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Pete in Portugal
Well-Known Member
I agree - Wasps are just being opportunistic in trying to recover half the cost of having to re-grow the grass in ther pitch. Given that the pitch was already knackered before the pitch was invaded, I don't think they've a hope in hell of getting any money. It's symptomatic of the poor relationship between the club and it's landlords, which has been excacerbated by JR2.
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
I put this earlier in the thread JSN. I think (someone can correct me if I'm wrong) but Wasps are owned by a Maltese Hedge Fund and Maltas currency is the Euro. One would assume that any damages paid by the club are going straight to Wasps owners. Maybe they'll pay for their repairs from a Maltese account. Who knows....
Nick
Administrator
Could be that the people doing the work on the pitch want it in Euros too?