Oggy (3 Viewers)
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skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Otis
Well-Known Member
Thanks, Bob, I shall put it in my diary.
stevefloyd
Well-Known Member
No we monitor his pre match coaching and also the in game results and maybe its just pure coincidence but from many peoples viewpoints it dont look too clever.
When we had the likes of Westwood etc they were already decent keepers that had worked with other coaches before the oggy experience..
Joy Division
Well-Known Member
I think the in game results is down to the manager mate.
What is he not doing in his pre-match coaching that he should be doing?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
But according to one poster who is apparently never wrong he makes keepers worse. If that is the case surely Westwood etc would have gone backwards under Oggy?
You've said it yourself really. Westwood etc. were already decent keepers. Clearly Burge has already peaked and is unlikely to get any better under a different coach. How's that down to Oggy?
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
How do you know Burge wouldn't improve under another coach. What you are saying clearly is Oggy can't improve him as every match proves.
If a coach doesn't improve players. For example getting them to stop kicking the ball into touch then the coach needs to be replaced by someone who can improve what we have. Oggy has obviously failed to improve our number one who consistently plays poorly and costs us points. Maybe MR will be the manager to finally put the team before sentiment.
Otis
Well-Known Member
The legend tag seemingly runs very deep.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
And unfortunately it clouds the judgement.
OffenhamSkyBlue
Well-Known Member
It's not pre-match coaching - it's a warm-up. Coaching is for the training ground
Joy Division
Well-Known Member
Not my words
Joy Division
Well-Known Member
So basically you are saying if a particular player doesn't improve under one coach then that coach should be sacked, right?
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Well he's had Burge for a good few years and he's not improved, has he? It happens to managers all the time, so can't see the issue.
ccfc_ukr
Well-Known Member
my understand is that pre-match this is just a warm up? If our keepers still require coaching before kick off then we really are fucked... Oggy or not.
Joy Division
Well-Known Member
No he hasn't which is perhaps because he's not a very good player. Its down to the manager to identify a weakness in a particular area and replace the player with somebody better.
stevefloyd
Well-Known Member
Well clearly in the progress meetings he must be sating they are fantastic unless you could shed any more light on why they are not so good
stevefloyd
Well-Known Member
Discipline and if you look at some of the shooting practice videos clearly with lucky lucky oggy that translates to the pitch because we aint scoring enough
Grendel
Well-Known Member
He's not a good shot stopper at all. As his collapse to the ground for the second goal illustrates. He has an unfortunate habit also of pushing the ball out in front.
He has no attributes for the job. RCC isn't good but looks like a keeper. Burge looks like an outfield player bunged in goal.
I also never said anything about a coaches job measured on if he makes players worse
The comments on Murphy and Westwood are typically idiotic. Both were experienced and all a coach needs to do is advise on odd tweaks and tips.
You'd expect some basics in awareness to have improved with Burge but they haven't.
As I also said I'm hardly bothered if he stays or goes. My critique of him is far less critical than most on here.
Joy Division
Well-Known Member
Or perhaps in meetings he is saying that we need a better keeper? He can advise but essentially not his decision is it.
stevefloyd
Well-Known Member
Well he aint advising strongly enough
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry, I don't dislike Burge as much as some in fact I'm one of the few on here who have given him the benefit of doubt and pointed out what I believe to be his attributes and took flack for it (including on this very thread) and even I am willing to admit that Burge has reached the pinnacle of his ability and most likely career and I say that as a poster who doesn't have a reputation for bashing our players. If you really believe he could improve under a different coach then fair enough, personally I don't see it. The only thing I can see improving Burge's record is a competent defence who aren't prone to stupid errors that ask to much of the goalie. But then you could say the same about any goalie. As far as I'm aware that's not down to the goal keeping coach.
I don't recall but who was the goalie coach when Oggy was in goal because Oggy's kicking wasn't exactly that clever. If you said Oggy isn't the bed person to coach his kicking based on Oggy's own kicking I wouldn't necessarily disagree but someone else can always assist with this or maybe (like Oggy) kicking is his weakness that you either except as a compromise because no amount of kicking practice is going to show drastic improvement.
Maybe MR will be another manager to realise that it's the recruitment and the level of goalies coming through the youth set up that is the issue and not the coaching that's the issue and change nothing as sentiment actually has nothing to do with it. I admit I don't know but then by the same token neither do you. You're as privy as I am as to what goes on behind the scenes. Difference between me and you is I don't assume to be correct.
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Paxman II
Well-Known Member
No amount of training can improve a player if he has not got enough natural talent. He can improve and get to a peak level for him. This applies to all players.
It's the reason why managers buy players with more talent than others. You can't coach a player to become Messi. He must first possess enough talent superior to most.
However we fire managers and coaches because they can't improve their players performances when it is adjudged that those players should be performing better under their coaching. In our case that is what we have. Consistently poor goalkeeping, much of it basic errors that any coach I would argue, can improve on over time.
Oggy clearly has not improved either of our goalkeepers in the areas we all identify need addressing. Oggy has been at the club coaching the keepers and we have seen abject failure that has proven costly time and again. If he can't get them to a certain standard then as a coach he should have recommended replacing them. He has had seasons to do that and several managers and player budgets to do so.
The upshot is for me at least Oggy needs to go.
It's the reason why managers buy players with more talent than others. You can't coach a player to become Messi. He must first possess enough talent superior to most.
However we fire managers and coaches because they can't improve their players performances when it is adjudged that those players should be performing better under their coaching. In our case that is what we have. Consistently poor goalkeeping, much of it basic errors that any coach I would argue, can improve on over time.
Oggy clearly has not improved either of our goalkeepers in the areas we all identify need addressing. Oggy has been at the club coaching the keepers and we have seen abject failure that has proven costly time and again. If he can't get them to a certain standard then as a coach he should have recommended replacing them. He has had seasons to do that and several managers and player budgets to do so.
The upshot is for me at least Oggy needs to go.
rupert_bear
Well-Known Member
Are you admitting to monitoring the pre- match goalkeeping warm up? ffs! Jesus I've heard it all now, and you said "we" there's more than one doing it ? Either get a life or buy a fucking programme !
rupert_bear
Well-Known Member
Let me tell you something about Oggy. When he was a player after the morning training and his team mates were trooping off to the showers Oggy would grab two or three youth teamers and have them blasting shots at him from all angles for an hour or more I know this because a youth player I knew at the time with a peach of a left foot was always being grabbed by him to do it which pissed him off a bit as he wanted t go home half the time, now that doesn't make Oggy great goalkeeping coach, what is a great goalie coach ? but it shows dedication and professionalism and perhaps a reason he was a top keeper here for years and played until over 40, if he can instill a bit of that to others that would be fine by me.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Teaching and doing are two totally different skill sets. Otherwise all the best coaches would be ex top players.
I'll say it again "he's shit" isn't an excuse for a student not improving. "His attitude is shit" maybe, but if anything the worse a student is the quicker and easier it is to make gains with them as there's low hanging fruit to pick.
I'll say it again "he's shit" isn't an excuse for a student not improving. "His attitude is shit" maybe, but if anything the worse a student is the quicker and easier it is to make gains with them as there's low hanging fruit to pick.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
One of my other bugbears, that a stellar playing career makes plenty a shoe-in for management jobs.
Sure, some do it well (Conte!), but just because you're Paul Ince, it don't make you a better manager than Dick Culshaw of the Dog n Bone Utd.
Joy Division
Well-Known Member
Does that include: Joe Murphy, Kieran Westwood, Andy Marshall, Luke Steele, Marton Fulop? All keepers that I thought were pretty decent for us under the guidance of Oggy.
rupert_bear
Well-Known Member
You are correct and not only that they are straight into top jobs, on top Dollar too.Sean Dyche and Eddie Howe are two examples how lower league apprentiships have paid off
Houchens Head
Fairly well known member from Malvern
Oggy out!
Paxman II
Well-Known Member
Agree but you miss the rest of what I said. Those keepers you mention had more natural talent, requiring less coaching. What we have now are poor less talented keepers and yet Oggy has either lost his way and coaching ability or failed to point out we need new keepers instead of persisting with failures we have. Like a manager Oggy has over time begun to fail...comes to all eventually. Someone needs to tell him.
skyblueeyesrevisited
Well-Known Member
A coach is meant to improve performances. I rest my case.
stevefloyd
Well-Known Member
I was alluding to the pathetic attempts at warming up the strikers
Wyken Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Sack him. More deadwood that needs clearing.
If he wasn't a CCFC legend he wouldn't have been employed.
MR needs to bring his own coaching staff in, including GK coach.
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If he wasn't a CCFC legend he wouldn't have been employed.
MR needs to bring his own coaching staff in, including GK coach.
Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk