Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
Oh I don't think it will happen.
I'm just saying it is feasible, and highlighting that many people who say it isn't just simply don't want us to play there.
The Butts - CRFC Confirms it is willing to join mediation talks (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter ccfc92
- Start date
Oh I don't think it will happen.
I'm just saying it is feasible, and highlighting that many people who say it isn't just simply don't want us to play there.
Or, as we're playing guessing games - CCFC & CRFC get on well together and support each other, making money and attracting loads of true blue Cov supporters who go to follow both clubs. Meanwhile, Wasps continue to get deeper into the financial too-doos with no income from football to prop up their rugby losses. They fall behind and have to leave the Ricoh. The council then beg Ccfc to take it over and this leaves CRFC with a spanking good stadium to carry on with. The good guys win in the end and they all live happily ever after.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
.... because they will be better off with CCFC settled.
The art is to get a deal and take advantage of this.
With no evidence offered by TF on the feasibility of the Butts I would hazard a guess that a 12,000 stadium squeezed into the area is not a reality.
With the stadium owned by CRFC and rented by CCFC and with limited facilities outside the arena bowl I cannot see how the CCFC cut of the income will be substantial.
I want us to play there, but think that it isn't feasible - unless large amounts of money are involved. To gain more space they either go downwards or they build across the road to the fob watch. Facilities, hotels, car parks above road level. Create space.
Astute
Well-Known Member
It has to be said that SISU could get planning permission but I suggest CCC would make it difficult.
Calista
Well-Known Member
This is the wildcard which means it's too soon (IMO) to rule out a development at the Butts. But if the club were serious about this, and wanted people to support it, I don't understand why they wouldn't come out with illustrative plans. As has been said, an outline application can be put in at any time. I'd love to see a 25,000 seater city centre stadium, but it's always smoke and mirrors with Fisher so no wonder nobody trusts him an inch. And such a development, especially if it involves re-routing roads etc., basically means the club going to the Council for help with a new stadium for a second time, against an acrimonious backdrop.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Yeah. We would believe them if they would show us a picture.
Wasps debt will eventually catch them out in the end. I predict in 5 years that Wasps will go under.
You can carry on re bonding but a debts a debt eventually it will require paying. It's way to much for a rugby club never mind a football club.
I was told the rugby communitys sitting back waiting for it all to unfold.
Astute
Well-Known Member
They won't go under because of the Ricoh. They would just lose it and could move back south where they belong. It is spending money on players that they don't have that would put them in trouble unless Richardson puts the 10m back into the club he took out after the bonds issue. And then how long would it last if they had to move again?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
It could. But the fact is it appears despite what people on here are insisting and by the looks of it an award winning investigative journalist is saying the site doesn't have approval for a 12k stadium. That's the point I'm making.
Yes the previous application would support it, I'm not saying otherwise but it's by no means a full gone conclusion and the demographic of the immediate vicinity has also changed. And despite what the expert who incorrectly insisted that the site does have planning permission when it seems it doesn't say's people living in the locality will have a big say and a precedent has already been set in the court case for Mildenhall stadium which actually puts the ball squarely in the residents court. All this has happened since the last application was approved.
Also I noticed on the link you put up ir specifically says Rugby Stadium. Is this a reflection on the conditions that apply to the site?
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torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Sounds familiar. It's what got us in trouble. Buying players and paying wages we couldn't afford.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
A 12000 stadium may be possible but realistically that's it.
That's a big issue for me looking forward as it will not be suitable should we get in and beyond the Championship.
Otis
Well-Known Member
It's the issue for me too. Sure it might be several years down the line before it's an issue, but if Wasps become entrenched here and we find the Butts is no longer big enough for us and is not expandable and further, then what?
As has been said lots of times, if we got to the Championship we could be attracting much bigger crowds. You also of course have to factor in that if we did get to the Championship we would then be a club with a bit of success behind us, having to have achieved promotion from League One and Two.
As it stands now in the Championship, if we were there we would be getting much more than 15,000 for Newcastle, Sheff Weds, Wolves, Birmingham, Leeds and Villa. Some of those would achieve 20,000+.
Let's face it, if we WERE in the Championship in a 12,000 seater stadium and doing quite well, we would all be saying the stadium isn't big enough.
The Butts is absolutely fine as a short term fix, but we also need to think long term too.
12,000 if you think about it would be perfect right now. If it were to be short term it would serve us well in League Two and League One and then when we left it behind, 12,000 would be absolutely perfect for Cov to be left with.
Astute
Well-Known Member
The Ricoh used to be a football ground until those wankers Wasps turned up. So why would the Butts be called anything other than a rugger ground if only rugger was played there?
Astute
Well-Known Member
There is a decent chance that Wasps will have failed by then.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
There's a decent chance we'll all be dead by then, and the world will be ruled by apes!
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Agreed. Seems almost pointless going on about the requirements of championship football when we're going to be playing in league two.
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ricohroar
Well-Known Member
even in the short term 12,000 wouldn't be enough unless we still haven't hit rock bottom. 45,000ish to a tin pot trophy final. how many seats do you think we would sell if this time next year we are sat 8 points clear at the top of league 2?
If this club won league 2 or even top 2, come March 2018 I'd expect gates of 15,000 plus. prob 25,000 for the last few games. We get sub 10,000 because we are bottom and going no where.
If this club won league 2 or even top 2, come March 2018 I'd expect gates of 15,000 plus. prob 25,000 for the last few games. We get sub 10,000 because we are bottom and going no where.
sky blue john
Well-Known Member
Seems to me a lot on here are buying into this debate and actually discussing the merits of moving to the Butts stadium.
Do you not realize that Sisu are laughing at us. When you think how long all this process would take for mediation, planning permission and then actual stadium being built 4-6 years?
This is just Sisu hot air to buy time to see out JR2.
Do you not realize that Sisu are laughing at us. When you think how long all this process would take for mediation, planning permission and then actual stadium being built 4-6 years?
This is just Sisu hot air to buy time to see out JR2.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Quote from the council in the CT today
So doesn't sound like the "active not passive support from Coventry City Council" Fisher spoke about. Why can't the football club get the same level of assistance Wasps do with any plans. When it was them building at Higgs there were emails from the council talking about how they could ensure the application passed.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
I don't imagine they will go out of their way but they have to follow process or they'll be in court.
Anything submitted will probably be double checked.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Couldn't happen to a nicer sport.
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
dont they make big money from the music concerts?
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
All normal process.
Applications can't be stopped by the council other than on normal planning grounds.
Butts will probably fail on several planning grounds if a 25,000 stadium is applied for.
- over development
- excessive bulk or scale
- incompatible with the design of existing buildings
- insufficient parking spaces
- failure to meet council’s access and on-site turning standards
- overlooking adjoining properties
- blocking natural daylight
- generating noise, disturbance, smells, pollution
- dominating nearby buildings
- poor relationship with adjoining buildings
- visually damaging in the landscape or in the setting
- road system is inadequate
- better alternative sites available
I've saved loads of time by fine tuning application on their advice.
It's their job.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
See how everybody’s expectations are being lowered by the PR.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
What does active support mean? It's a subjective remark to be rehashed in a legal framework if you ask me
Nick
Administrator
Yours or Jack's?
And all of the city's new found egg shaped converts need a team to support following Wasps disappearance, what better than a club 10 min walk from the station with local team playing in a 12k stadium?
Calista
Well-Known Member
From a Council perspective, they’ve already helped CCFC with building a new stadium, and an international class stadium at that. CCFC bit off far more than they could chew, and then (under new owners) played silly buggers reneging on agreements and crassly playing hardball with politicians and a charity. That opened the door for a franchise to take over, and the legals are still going on. It has been well over a decade of pain for the Council. And yes, there are other perspecitives too, but that's the way the Council will see it.
Now the club is saying to CCC “we need your active help to build another one”! All we’re asking for is a controversial and unpopular planning permission, and a few million quids’ worth of infrastructure investment.
As I’ve said, I’d love a fantastic new city centre stadium. But until Fisher comes out with some realistic proposals, it remains a pipe dream, and I’m not the least bit surprise at the Council’s stance. The club needs to come up with so much more in terms of plans and investment if they want public support and help with this.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Yeah, not having forward thinking has served the city of Coventry well over the years hasn't it.
The city as a whole is in such a mess because short term thinking has been applied all over the city and we have all been moaning about it for years.
If millions are going to be spent on upgrading the Butts we surely have to have a long term vision too and forward thinking. Where are we going to be in 5 years? In 10 years?
Sorry, Stu, but we can't just put the blinkers in and say 'oh well, we are a League Two club, let's not even think of what we are going to do if we are in the Championship in 5 years time.
sky blue john
Well-Known Member
Wasps administration?
However much we would all like it to happen, what is the likelihood?
Lets say it did and the Ricoh became available to the highest bidder how much would it go for 5,10,15, 20 million?
Can anyone actually see Sisu stumping up the cash for it, when at every opportunity in the past they have failed to even make an offer ?
However much we would all like it to happen, what is the likelihood?
Lets say it did and the Ricoh became available to the highest bidder how much would it go for 5,10,15, 20 million?
Can anyone actually see Sisu stumping up the cash for it, when at every opportunity in the past they have failed to even make an offer ?
Can't see CCC ever selling the freehold - it cost them next to nothing and will always generate some income for them
I think you know the answer to your own question........ I think this is building up to a trade off so that both sides save face. CCC backs The Butts tenancy plan and Joy drops the JR ( doesn't follow it up ).
In the past there was still money owed to the bank and later to the council. Wasps cleared that and so the Ricoh lease - which is now 250 years - is far more attractive for an investor.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Really? How much was owed to the council at the point Wasps took over compared to how much Wasps owe on the bond issue?