C-Unit Council (21 Viewers)

[clint van damme]

I love Coventry City but I hate the way that the owners have destroyed the complete fabric of a once good if not great institution.
Yes they picked up a failed business but you can't be content with the way they have handled the affairs of CCFC since then. Can you?
I know there are two sides to each argument and I do accept that others have played their part in our outcomes but it is time to grovel to those involved and secure the future before we are begging others to help us.
But hey it's amazing the love for a hedge fund. Go for it Sisu

it's not a love for a hedge fund though is it? It's people saying the council have some culpability. They have a history of not co-operating with the club that pre dates the arrival of sisu. sisu are CCFCs biggest problem without doubt but that shouldn't give all the other parties involved in this cluster fuck a free pass.
And as for the amazing love for a hedge fund, there's only one out of town, team moving hedge fund in Coventry who get any love.

 

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[OffenhamSkyBlue]

still surprised you can't see what a peculiar statement "Are you aware that most people thing that Coventry is a suburb of Birmingham?" is to make.
Would that excuse having people on the council who don't have the citys best interest at heart because that's what it implies when taken in the contest of your initial post.

And this is only going to get worse with the new WMCA (is there a song in there somewhere?)

 

[italiahorse]

How did they discuss a return to the Ricoh? Mediation wasn't it?

If they follow processes, take minutes etc there is no issue.

We came back because the Wasps deal was imminent and Sisu knew the game was up.
Sisu realised we would be left in Northampton trying to negotiate a way back with Wasps rather than Higgs/CCC.

 

[olderskyblue]

I'm on the fence on this mediation issue really.

I can see how people think it might be useful for CCC to take apart, and how not doing so can be ammunition to SISU in their obvious PR campaign, but I also see there is actually nothing to mediate on at the moment, and would look to find the reasons why Tim is pushing this now.

One of the main issues for me is who the hell would want to try to mediate with Tim Fisher? What would be the point? ACL tried that, and he (Joy) reneged on the deal agreed. He has had so many contradictions in his statements, it would be like trying to have a sensible conversation with Billy Liar.

So, mediate just to say you have done so, or don't mediate because you know it's worthless?

 

[italiahorse]

Can I ask a possibly naïve question? What subjects are they hoping to mediate on? That is, why is there suddenly a need to mediate?

The fact that CCC sold their share in ACL at a knockdown price to Wasps (accepting a lower offer for that part of the business than CCFC had proposed)?
The fact that AEH Trust (let's not they are devoid of any blame in this) sold their share in ACL to Wasps, even though CCFC had offered to buy it?
The fact that CCC have granted permission to develop the AEH Trust's facilities for a training ground for Wasps, thereby making the CCFC Academy homeless?
The fact that CCC have allegedly made numerous attempts to impose planning conditions on development of the BPA that would prevent CCFC from playing there?
The fact that SISU have taken repeated and ongoing legal action against CCC and Wasps to seek recompense for financial losses they perceive they have incurred as a result of illegal use of public funds to support a private enterprise, etc.?

Please enlighten me.

Please read the court ruling !!!

 

[Nick]

We came back because the Wasps deal was imminent and Sisu knew the game was up.
Sisu realised we would be left in Northampton trying to negotiate a way back with Wasps rather than Higgs/CCC.

How did they speak to the council about coming back and Lucas? I thought people couldn't speak at all with legals going on, never mind make deals to come back.

 

[italiahorse]

Has anybody said that?

No. But reading some of the posts on here you would think the only obstacle is the council stopping a 'done and dusted' stadium.

 

[Nick]

No. But reading some of the post on here you would think the only obstacle is the council stopping a 'done and dusted' stadium.

I think it is just you making that assumption.

 

[skybluetony176]

If I rented a property at an extortionate rate that left me bankrupt twice and the landlord refused to listen to a reduction But told me I could buy it for 40 years and then gave it to some bloke from London for half the price for 250 years I'd feel like suing.

Fook me I do worry about some people on here.

So it was the rent and the rent alone that left the club bankrupt twice? I thought it was the whole business model including the wage structure which was multiple times the amount that the rent was? Is it not true to say that if you took the the rent out the equation the business model operated would have still bankrupted the club twice?

 

[sky blue john]

Yes, I quite clearly do! ha.

I said as soon as it was mentioned that SISU wouldn't win it so it's a bit pointless. You were probably supporting a different team and NOPM so missed it!

Your right, It must have been whilst you and my team was at sixfields !
So if JR2 is pointless why can't you see it as a simple fix, Sisu drop JR2 and then a an extended rental deal can be agreed ?

 

[italiahorse]

How did they speak to the council about coming back and Lucas? I thought people couldn't speak at all with legals going on, never mind make deals to come back.

There were some talks and ACL were accommodating on rent (again) and in reality it saved Sisu's face and gave them an opportunity to bring the club back.
The Council just rubber stamped it via ACL.

 

[Nick]

Your right, It must have been whilst you and my team was at sixfields !
So if JR2 is pointless why can't you see it as a simple fix, Sisu drop JR2 and then a an extended rental deal can be agreed ?

No, it wasn't at Sixfields it was after that. Nice try though.

You can also see it as blackmail that the club will be forced out if they don't drop it

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Can I ask a possibly naïve question? What subjects are they hoping to mediate on? That is, why is there suddenly a need to mediate?

The fact that CCC sold their share in ACL at a knockdown price to Wasps (accepting a lower offer for that part of the business than CCFC had proposed)?
The fact that AEH Trust (let's not they are devoid of any blame in this) sold their share in ACL to Wasps, even though CCFC had offered to buy it?
The fact that CCC have granted permission to develop the AEH Trust's facilities for a training ground for Wasps, thereby making the CCFC Academy homeless?
The fact that CCC have allegedly made numerous attempts to impose planning conditions on development of the BPA that would prevent CCFC from playing there?
The fact that SISU have taken repeated and ongoing legal action against CCC and Wasps to seek recompense for financial losses they perceive they have incurred as a result of illegal use of public funds to support a private enterprise, etc.?

Please enlighten me.

1) Shares were sold to Wasps at a slightly less price than SISU offered because it was totally devoid of any stipulations as opposed to SISU wanting to know information that would help their cause in JR1(Phishing)
2) See point no.1 and the "Fact" that SISU refused to pay 12k for repairs to equipment broken by academy players.IIRC.
3) The "Fact" Wasps offered the Academy a "Training home" therefore NOT making them homeless.
4) True, although a clause in the lease made by Mr Millerchip stated no football(Competitive) to be played at BPA.
5) Of which no less than 3(Three) courts have "Thrown out" the complaints.

 

[Nick]

There were some talks and ACL were accommodating on rent (again) and in reality it saved Sisu's face and gave them an opportunity to bring the club back.
The Council just rubber stamped it via ACL.

Why was Lucas involved? Why could she talk about it with legals ongoing?

 

[NortonSkyBlue]

still surprised you can't see what a peculiar statement "Are you aware that most people thing that Coventry is a suburb of Birmingham?" is to make.
Would that excuse having people on the council who don't have the citys best interest at heart because that's what it implies when taken in the contest of your initial post.

I am still surprised that you can't see that calling someone a bastard is fair game, calling them a German bastard or a black bastard is not? Why then should the place of origin be an issue in this context? It is bigotry in all forms. Like saying fans of Bradford are on their way to the temple or whatever it was. No place CVD.
My sensitivity to being called a Brummie has long since gone, labels don't hurt me, unless some Ill informed soul called me a Sisu lover. That would scar me, some on here wear that as a badge of pride.
On your other point surely the clue is in the name Coventry City Council. Acting on behalf of the citizens of said city.
Having just read your other post I see that you are on a roll here. Read what I posted again and then read Grendel's post, the context there is clear.

 

[italiahorse]

Really? 2 games into the season they suddenly realised nobody was going after a full season and came back?

As I said it was the Wasps deal.
They had only just paid for a new Northampton pitch so they were planning for a full season.

 

[italiahorse]

Why was Lucas involved? Why could she talk about it with legals ongoing?

.... because there was no compromise by CCC to be made so she just sat and listened.

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

Please read the court ruling !!!

Can you briefly summarise/paraphrase the relevant points, Italia?
I did say it was a naïve question!

 

[italiahorse]

Can you briefly summarise/paraphrase the relevant points, Italia?
I did say it was a naïve question!

Yes
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/in...ece/BINARY/Judicial Review High Court verdict

 

[Nick]

As I said it was the Wasps deal.
They had only just paid for a new Northampton pitch so they were planning for a full season.

Yes, but it still involved talking didn't it? Legals were ongoing then too.

It's the same as Wasps suddenly saying they can't talk because of legals, after they already had been.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

As I said it was the Wasps deal.
They had only just paid for a new Northampton pitch so they were planning for a full season.

Every now and again, you say something sensible.

 

[ajsccfc]

I've never heard any genuine suggestion that Coventry is part of Birmingham. The closest is a confusion why we don't have the same accent as the rest of the Midlands.

 

[NortonSkyBlue]

Yes, but it still involved talking didn't it? Legals were ongoing then too.

It's the same as Wasps suddenly saying they can't talk because of legals, after they already had been.

Nick is correct, without discussions there are no solutions and the sooner people talk the sooner we will find either a resolution or at least know what we are facing.
The order it all comes in is irrelevant at the moment, first people need to talk.
How we got back to Coventry was by talking, the reasons don't matter now.

 

[NortonSkyBlue]

I've never heard any genuine suggestion that Coventry is part of Birmingham. The closest is a confusion why we don't have the same accent as the rest of the Midlands.

You need to get out more!!! I can't remember a time when I have been called a Brummie even in this country by so called intelligent people(and a few idiots as well)

 

[skybluetony176]

Just one point. In my admittedly limited experience in taking someone to court. Isn't it standard practice to have mediation before starting court action? The idea being mediation stops court action happening and court action only happens when mediation fails? Whats to stop SISU suspending JR2 until the mediation has come to it's natural conclusion? Whatever that may be. As seems to be standard in this comedy of errors the cart has been put before the horse. If JR2 isn't suspended before mediation has taken place whats in it for the other parties to get involved in mediation exactly? The only reason that they would have for getting involved in mediation (stopping JR2) is happening anyway. Surely this makes any pursuit of mediation from SISU of any parties that they control disingenuous from the start? Thus making mediation a pointless task with no other possible conclusion other than JR2, which is currently happening anyway.

Someone please explain to me what the other parties can possibly gain from mediation now that JR2 has been triggered? The answer is clearly nothing. So why are they going to do it? Take part in mediation that is.

 

[sky blue john]

No, it wasn't at Sixfields it was after that. Nice try though.

You can also see it as blackmail that the club will be forced out if they don't drop it

Lol
Yes it is a form of blackmail.
So you believe its ok to Sue someone but the entity being sued are not allowed to retaliate or defend themselves?

 

[fernandopartridge]

Just one point. In my admittedly limited experience in taking someone to court. Isn't it standard practice to have mediation before starting court action? The idea being mediation stops court action happening and court action only happens when mediation fails? Whats to stop SISU suspending JR2 until the mediation has come to it's natural conclusion? Whatever that may be. As seems to be standard in this comedy of errors the cart has been put before the horse. If JR2 isn't suspended before mediation has taken place whats in it for the other parties to get involved in mediation exactly? The only reason that they would have for getting involved in mediation (stopping JR2) is happening anyway. Surely this makes any pursuit of mediation from SISU of any parties that they control disingenuous from the start? Thus making mediation a pointless task with no other possible conclusion other than JR2, which is currently happening anyway.

Someone please explain to me what the other parties can possibly gain from mediation now that JR2 has been triggered? The answer is clearly nothing. So why are they going to do it?

Do you understand what Judicial Review is?

 

[clint van damme]

I am still surprised that you can't see that calling someone a bastard is fair game, calling them a German bastard or a black bastard is not? Why then should the place of origin be an issue in this context? It is bigotry in all forms. Like saying fans of Bradford are on their way to the temple or whatever it was. No place CVD.
My sensitivity to being called a Brummie has long since gone, labels don't hurt me, unless some Ill informed soul called me a Sisu lover. That would scar me, some on here wear that as a badge of pride.
On your other point surely the clue is in the name Coventry City Council. Acting on behalf of the citizens of said city.
Having just read your other post I see that you are on a roll here. Read what I posted again and then read Grendel's post, the context there is clear.

First statement in bold - oh dear me!!

Second statement in bold - Can you give me some examples to back that up because I can't think of anyone.

 

[NortonSkyBlue]

CRFC and CCFC need to agree on a head of terms arrangement between the both parties. Without this there is no possibility of moving towards presenting anything to the council for planning permission. The language so far says that's is still a long way off.
Yes the council and the owners have to resolve differences and we can see that won't happen whilst there is legal action going on and unless there is something in it for the council.

 

[NortonSkyBlue]

First statement in bold - oh dear me!!

Second statement in bold - Can you give me some examples to back that up because I can't think of anyone.

Go on, put your mind to it, it will come.

 

[skybluetony176]

Do you understand what Judicial Review is?

Its a review in court of an action of a public body.
Do you understand the point of mediation?

 

[clint van damme]

Go on, put your mind to it, it will come.

No it won't. There's no one.
I can think of some who hate their city and the football club though.

 

[ajsccfc]

You need to get out more!!!

I'm around the area in question 99% of the time, never hear it.

 

[italiahorse]

Yes, but it still involved talking didn't it? Legals were ongoing then too.

It's the same as Wasps suddenly saying they can't talk because of legals, after they already had been.

I'll persist.
But it did not involve the council making a decision directly it was ACL management.
Wasps are not talking on a long term deal because it keeps hitting road blocks on some of the points due directly to the legals.
They will just issue a short term deal that will be increased to further focus CCFC/SISU on a long term deal.

Can you not see that the formal planning process cannot be bought into any joint meeting.
They can advise but at some point they will need to put in a plan.
Why cant CCFC/SISU just put in a planning application for a 12,000 seater stadium ?
Why cant CCFC/SISU just put a plan in for the proposed Academy satellite site ?
Why cant CCFC?SISU just speak to Rugby/CCC about an alternative site for the first team training relocation.

Why do you think that is ?

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

No it won't. There's no one.
I can think of some who hate their city and the football club though.[/QUOTE]

Who would that be CVD?

 

[clint van damme]

CRFC and CCFC need to agree on a head of terms arrangement between the both parties. Without this there is no possibility of moving towards presenting anything to the council for planning permission. The language so far says that's is still a long way off.
Yes the council and the owners have to resolve differences and we can see that won't happen whilst there is legal action going on and unless there is something in it for the council.

I would agree with the first paragraph, but I still think using JR2 as an excuse not to negotiate is a smoke screen as the council have moved the goal posts a couple of times. While everyone remains entrenched we'll never get anywhere.