C-Unit Council (26 Viewers)

[olderskyblue]

Mediation got us back from Northampton, so mediation could ultimately ensure our future in the city. I thought we'd all welcome that. Seems not.

It's funny how mediation works when it leads to exactly what SISU wants....

 

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[italiahorse]

Never apologised for them as proved by the fact you've never find a single post to prove it.

I would say that slagging everybody off except them as the same thing.

 

[clint van damme]

It's funny how mediation works when it leads to exactly what SISU wants....

the thing with getting everyone round the table is no one has to commit to anything, but maybe, just maybe, solutions to some of the issues can be found including dropping JR2,

 

[olderskyblue]

the thing with getting everyone round the table is no one has to commit to anything, but maybe, just maybe, solutions to some of the issues can be found including dropping JR2,

Maybe Tim could have added that to his 3 points he wants..... Dropping JR2 is on the table. Now that may have ensured everyone he wants to be there attends....

 

[martcov]

the thing with getting everyone round the table is no one has to commit to anything, but maybe, just maybe, solutions to some of the issues can be found including dropping JR2,

Yes, but everyone includes Joy.

 

[dongonzalos]

I did in my initial post with dongo. His reply was I had said exactly the same but long winded. Clearly missing the length of his own posts recently. Also clearly missing I'd made different points and an explanation. He clearly doesn't want to engage in debate either. Just wants to regurgitate the same lines. I have replied to you above.

I know I do long winded posts. I was merely pointing out that nothing in your reply is any different.

Were some people hoping ACL would go bust or be distressed?

Yes

Was ACL half owned by a Childrebs Charity

Yes

Does distressing it put pressure on the charity.

Yes

Were some people ok with that as long as it was good for CCFC

Yes.

Were some people happy with a legally binding contract getting broken?

Yes as long as it was good for CCFC.

Do some want Wasps to go bust

Yes as long as it is good for CCFC.

Did some accept the club been held for ransom in another

Yes as they felt it would be good for CCFC.

Do all those same people want SISU to drop their futile legal action because it would be good for CCFC?

No, some of them think SISU's right to batter people in court is more important than what's good for CCFC.

I just find their moral compass abut skewed. Maybe they should be a bit more consistent in their approach.
As in it's all alright if it's good for CCFC even if it means SISU get shafted as well as charities, Cov fans and Wasps fans

 

[Grendel]

I would say that slagging everybody off except them as the same thing.

Is that you talking about yourselves and wasps?

 

[Captain Dart]

I think most people have forgotten the share of sale to Tesco that CCC should have paid to CCFC which they conveniently forgot and then denied they had received it.

Club at that time could have really used that money.

THAT shows that the antipathy towards the club started way before any legal proceedings.....

Wake up!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

All that money went into the Arena project, wake up!

 

[torchomatic]

I know I do long winded posts. I was merely pointing out that nothing in your reply is any different.

Were some people hoping ACL would go bust or be distressed?

Yes

Was ACL half owned by a Childrebs Charity

Yes

Does distressing it put pressure on the charity.

Yes

Were some people ok with that as long as it was good for CCFC

Yes.

Were some people happy with a legally binding contract getting broken?

Yes as long as it was good for CCFC.

Do some want Wasps to go bust

Yes as long as it is good for CCFC.

Did some accept the club been held for ransom in another

Yes as they felt it would be good for CCFC.

Do all those same people want SISU to drop their futile legal action because it would be good for CCFC?

No, some of them think SISU's right to batter people in court is more important than what's good for CCFC.

I just find their moral compass abut skewed. Maybe they should be a bit more consistent in their approach.
As in it's all alright if it's good for CCFC even if it means SISU get shafted as well as charities, Cov fans and Wasps fans

Charity, charity, etc. Didn't they actually get LESS money by selling to Wasps?

 

[Rusty Trombone]

No higgs veto though strangely.

What makes you think Higgs didn't have veto rights?

 

[italiahorse]

Is that you talking about yourselves and wasps?

I don't blame Wasps at all for taking the opportunity to save themselves.
For Coventry and Warwickshire I see them as a positive. Without doubt the ratepayers and CCC certainly do. I'm certainly enjoying supporting them.
However I do understand from a CCFC fans point of view (don't forget I'm one as well) that the option of the stadium has now gone and hence the anger associated with it.
But you need to stand back and see that under Sisu and coupled with the unfortunate position we find ourselves in, we can't afford to but into the Ricoh for many years to come.
From that point of view it was the best (and only) option available to CCC.
I can see no option for CCFC other than to get the best deal they can with Wasps and just let us get back to watching football.
Who knows, once we get established again there and build back trust, the opportunity might present itself to buy back into the stadium.
I see this a serious option as Wasps move to spread the long term risk and in that respect need to give concessions to a resurgent CCFC.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

Charity, charity, etc. Didn't they actually get LESS money by selling to Wasps?

I'm not sure the exact offer from the liquidator has been published (could be wrong), the rumour was that it was £2.8m, with conditions attached. I think some of these required the club and Higgs to work together on other projects. The Wasps offer was £2.77m, plus 50p for each seat sold in the newly named Higgs Stand. I can see why they accepted the Wasps offer.

 

[italiahorse]

Charity, charity, etc. Didn't they actually get LESS money by selling to Wasps?

CCFC made an initial offer for the Higgs share of £5.5M (£1.5M cash and £4M future payments) but after due diligence they reduced it to a "charitable" offer of £2M. for Higgs share and that relied on conditions. Namely getting the loan reduced to "as little as £2M but no more than £5M". (Quote from JR1) .
In real terms it was never going to be accepted by Higgs or the bank, (JR1)

 

[SkyBlueZack]

I don't blame Wasps at all for taking the opportunity to save themselves.
For Coventry and Warwickshire I see them as a positive. Without doubt the ratepayers and CCC certainly do. I'm certainly enjoying supporting them.
However I do understand from a CCFC fans point of view (don't forget I'm one as well) that the option of the stadium has now gone and hence the anger associated with it.
But you need to stand back and see that under Sisu and coupled with the unfortunate position we find ourselves in, we can't afford to but into the Ricoh for many years to come.
From that point of view it was the best (and only) option available to CCC.
I can see no option for CCFC other than to get the best deal they can with Wasps and just let us get back to watching football.
Who knows, once we get established again there and build back trust, the opportunity might present itself to buy back into the stadium.
I see this a serious option as Wasps move to spread the long term risk and in that respect need to give concessions to a resurgent CCFC.

Wasps couldn't afford to buy the Ricoh either, hence the bonds. Save themselves? Didn't they call themselves a real estate company with a rugby club attached it? Therefore were their primary objectives in moving to the Ricoh, saving the rugby cub? There is a lot of people within the City that don't like them being here, as there also seems to be a few that like franchise sport.

It wasn't the only option, what happened to the community asset talk? Why could the trust not have crowdfunded? Could the CCC have not developed a business plan similar to Wasps 'successful' one? I use successful loosely in the sense of people bigging it up on here. What if the best deal Wasps offer, bad for the club?

The only opportunity to buy the stadium will be if Wasps can't pay the bonds. You tell us that isn't going to happen. So nor will CCFC owning the stadium or a stake in it.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Charity, charity, etc. Didn't they actually get LESS money by selling to Wasps?

Maybe.
But you where still happy to see them get nothing.
You are exactly the type of person he was describing.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

I'm not sure the exact offer from the liquidator has been published (could be wrong), the rumour was that it was £2.8m, with conditions attached. I think some of these required the club and Higgs to work together on other projects. The Wasps offer was £2.77m, plus 50p for each seat sold in the newly named Higgs Stand. I can see why they accepted the Wasps offer.

So the offer was more or less the same, just that the club wished to work on community projects together? Surely that's a win win for a children's charity? Children participating in the nations favourite sport meeting the local teams players. Ah, the Higgs stand offer, not many sit behind the goal in rugby do they? Nice thought, good PR. Shame the clubs conditions weren't seen as that.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

What makes you think Higgs didn't have veto rights?

Did they then? My apologies if wrong. Just never heard it mentioned.

 

[torchomatic]

Maybe.
But you where still happy to see them get nothing.
You are exactly the type of person he was describing.

Oh dear. I'm sure i can live with your disapproval. Wipe those eyes now.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

I know I do long winded posts. I was merely pointing out that nothing in your reply is any different.

Were some people hoping ACL would go bust or be distressed?

Yes

Was ACL half owned by a Childrebs Charity

Yes

Does distressing it put pressure on the charity.

Yes

Were some people ok with that as long as it was good for CCFC

Yes.

Were some people happy with a legally binding contract getting broken?

Yes as long as it was good for CCFC.

Do some want Wasps to go bust

Yes as long as it is good for CCFC.

Did some accept the club been held for ransom in another

Yes as they felt it would be good for CCFC.

Do all those same people want SISU to drop their futile legal action because it would be good for CCFC?

No, some of them think SISU's right to batter people in court is more important than what's good for CCFC.

I just find their moral compass abut skewed. Maybe they should be a bit more consistent in their approach.
As in it's all alright if it's good for CCFC even if it means SISU get shafted as well as charities, Cov fans and Wasps fans

Your comprehension skills are as woeful as your defence of the council. You clearly didn't read my post. Not wasting my breath anymore.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

It was a one horse race in the end. Now if the club hadn't breached the terms of the option agreement, then there wouldn't have even been a race. Whoever made that decision really messed up.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

So the offer was more or less the same, just that the club wished to work on community projects together? Surely that's a win win for a children's charity? Children participating in the nations favourite sport meeting the local teams players. Ah, the Higgs stand offer, not many sit behind the goal in rugby do they? Nice thought, good PR. Shame the clubs conditions weren't seen as that.

The Higgs full explanation is on their website, but my interpretation is they thought Tim's words would not come to fruition, and that if Tim did want to do all of these community things there was nothing stopping him doing it himself, he didn't need the charity to help. As he hasn't done any it would appear they were right.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

It was a one horse race in the end. Now if the club hadn't breached the terms of the option agreement, then there wouldn't have even been a race. Whoever made that decision really messed up.

The terms of the option agreement was that we paid 1.3m in rent and that we paid a formulated value price. Now it has transcended that if we had of paid the formula price we would of paid well over the odds. Seeing how Wasps got all of it for 200 years longer for the same price that we would of had paid.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

The terms of the option agreement was that we paid 1.3m in rent and that we paid a formulated value price. Now it has transcended that if we had of paid the formula price we would of paid well over the odds. Seeing how Wasps got all of it for 200 years longer for the same price that we would of had paid.

The formula was the maximum price for Higgs share of ACL, the club could, and did, agree a lower price. The lease was extended by the Council, not ACL. The Council were prepared to extend the lease to the club for free.

 

[dongonzalos]

Charity, charity, etc. Didn't they actually get LESS money by selling to Wasps?

No SISU offered them 2 million for something that Joy said wasn't worth anything, but she understood their position as a charity
Now the got more and get astand in their name and ongoing money from ticket sales

 

[torchomatic]

No SISU offered them 2 million for something that Joy said wasn't worth anything, but she understood their position as a charity
Now the got more and get astand in their name and ongoing money from ticket sales

Ironically not from CCFC matches though as that stand is always closed.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

Ironically not from CCFC matches though as that stand is always closed.

It was only ever from Wasps games, so no need to worry.

 

[torchomatic]

It was only ever from Wasps games, so no need to worry.

Ah, good stuff.

 

[dongonzalos]

Ironically not from CCFC matches though as that stand is always closed.

One day maybe it will be needed again hopefully

 

[dongonzalos]

Your comprehension skills are as woeful as your defence of the council. You clearly didn't read my post. Not wasting my breath anymore.

No defence of the council
Just looking for a bit of consistency from certain posters. You know 'whatever it takes if it's for the good of CCFC'

 

[oldskyblue58]

All the above proves to me that public mediation will not work and in particular that the fan base will remain divided so that challenge of anyone is going remain weak. Everyone is stuck in the past busy rewriting history with "facts" because then they can point fingers at particular parties or fellow fans.

What needs discussion is the present and future of Ccfc the rest is history or simply twisted bollocks.

How we got to where we are has been done to death and rewritten many times to suit particular agendas or bias. It doesn't provide solutions only persistent division.

Talking about and making a viable ccfc future is the only importance. Communication can take many forms, just because someone says they won't take part in mediation doesn't mean there isn't a way to move forward - it just might not be in the glare of the media.

Far too much ego and not enough quality in so many aspects of what surrounds Ccfc. No real drive for a solution from anyone

So what is the plan and the commitment to that future ?

 

[NortonSkyBlue]

All the above proves to me that public mediation will not work. Everyone is stuck in the past busy rewriting history with "facts" because then they can point fingers at particular parties or fellow fans.

What needs discussion is the present and future of Ccfc the rest is history or simply twisted bollocks.

How we got to where we are has been done to death and rewritten many times to suit particular agendas or bias. It doesn't provide solutions only persistent division.

Talking about and making a viable ccfc future is the only importance. Communication can take many forms, just because someone says they won't take part in mediation doesn't mean there isn't a way to move forward - it just might not be in the glare of the media.

Far too much ego and not enough quality in so many aspects of what surrounds Ccfc

So what is the plan and the commitment to that future ?

It is the past that has lead to to mistrust, for the other parties involved they will be asking what is in it for us? otherwise what is their motivation for being there?
For CCFC the motivation is clear, survival and how to grow from this point?
You are correct that looking back is counterproductive at this stage but the others will rightly be wary of getting involved with our owners unless they can see it is not going to be a repeat of previous encounters.
It is therefore imperative IMO the CCFC are realistic in their aspirations and messages to the other parties. If it was me I would be prepared to pack up and leave the mediation if there was a whiff of old antics.
Sadly I feel we are so much in need of others support that we are beggars at the table.

 

[Astute]

Yes i would say. However SISU are here. The Council don't have to deal with them, of course, but it could mean us moving out of Coventry if they don't which why i find some of the comments here a little weird as we are all City supporters. Not your post, to clarify. Maybe the council don't 'have' to talk to City and don't want to as they have a shiny new franchise toy to crow about.

Mediation got us back from Northampton, so mediation could ultimately ensure our future in the city. I thought we'd all welcome that. Seems not.

We came back once Wasps got what should have been our stadium after SISU played hardball and lost. Anyone saying anything else is either deluded or wouldn't see the truth if it smashed them in the face.

 

[Astute]

Charity, charity, etc. Didn't they actually get LESS money by selling to Wasps?

They got more than SISU were offering and used the line that they would only give them that much because they are a charity.

 

[Astute]

The terms of the option agreement was that we paid 1.3m in rent and that we paid a formulated value price. Now it has transcended that if we had of paid the formula price we would of paid well over the odds. Seeing how Wasps got all of it for 200 years longer for the same price that we would of had paid.

So why was it offered to SISU at well below the formula price but is often quoted?

 

[torchomatic]

We came back once Wasps got what should have been our stadium after SISU played hardball and lost. Anyone saying anything else is either deluded or wouldn't see the truth if it smashed them in the face.

I'm deluded. As deluded as the councillor who said CCC could talk about CCFC ownership once bridges had been built.

Was he confused or lying?