But we dont have any other income....... (14 Viewers)

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Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
hill83 said:
I'll have a proper read through later on at work. I'm doing the classic night shift, 'trying to sleep in the day and instantly being wide awake for no reason', routine at the moment.
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Know the feeling. Was on nights last night. Back in again tonight. And worse of all it is my birthday :shifty:
 
oldskyblue58

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
The original posting was to illustrate that we do indeed receive income other than match day ticket income :banghead:

I think it is safe to say that is the case isn't it!
 
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clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
chiefdave said:
But then you would offset those costs against what we pay in rent wouldn't you? How much are other teams paying annually on maintenance.

The only one I'm aware of is Pompey having to pay out £400K when the trust took over but that's a 120 year old stadium that didn't have any maintenance done for years.

If the model we currently have is a good one then it raises the question of why are we the only club doing it?
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I'll leave it for the likes of yourself and OSB58 who are more informed than me to decide whether it's a good model or not CD.

But the question I would ask is within the current model could we and should we be generating a bigger playing budget than we are?
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
chiefdave said:
Would be no different to now would it. Wasps own it and ACL operate the stadium and associated facilities.

AEG would be ideal, they're the worlds largest operator of sports stadiums and the worlds second largest operator of live music and events.
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It would be vastly different. I just don't know what we would gain had we franchised out the stadium to AEG. Didn't some say the link between AEG and SISU was Leonard Brody? I'm sure i remember someone on here making the connection when TF started going on about bringing in AEG all the years ago.
 
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wingy

Well-Known Member
clint van damme said:
I'll leave it for the likes of yourself and OSB58 who are more informed than me to decide whether it's a good model or not CD.

But the question I would ask is within the current model could we and should we be generating a bigger playing budget than we are?
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A share of Stadium naming rights and more bums on seats would achieve that CVD, but given the last three seasons there's no guarantee we'd go to the ceiling anyway.
Priority shifted away from this to project other aspects into the limelight.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
hill83 said:
I'll have a proper read through later on at work. I'm doing the classic night shift, 'trying to sleep in the day and instantly being wide awake for no reason', routine at the moment.
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That could be your upcoming nuptials hill83.
How was the stag?
 
Captain Dart

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
oldskyblue58 said:
both disclosures are entirely legal and meet the rules. Its just that Scunthorpe choose to give greater detail and CCFC do not.

No player sales are in addition to that

Add in the player sales and the Fisher argument of being at such a disadvantage makes even less sense
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I'm sure a Cov Telegraph story using your analysis as 'inspiration' will be along in a few days. :emoji_imp:
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
oldskyblue58 said:
The original posting was to illustrate that we do indeed receive income other than match day ticket income :banghead:

I think it is safe to safe that is the case isn't it!
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Yes it's always been the case.

I think the counter argument would be the retraint on such income would be the issue of the club was promoted to a higher level. At the next level up wages as a percentage of turnover will have to be higher I would think to be competitive and commercial revenue opportunity from a stadium better.

To be fair on an accounts basis other clubs seem equally as vague. I suppose the question is how much extra is commercial income that the club can't make.

Some seem better than others. One had £5.6 million in commercial revenues which is 73% of their total revenue. So it would suggest a greater potential assuming the revenue measures are the same.
 
oldskyblue58

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
Final thought on comparison between Scunthorpe and CCFC
2015/16

Turnover SUFC £3.7m Player sales £0 total spend before interest 6.9m
Turnover CCFC £5.4m Player sales £2.5m total spend before interest 7.3m
League position
SUFC 7th
CCFC 8th

Its not all about the money and turnover
 
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Captain Dart

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
Astute said:
We have less income but we also have less outgoings. We don't have to pay for the upkeep of a stadium. And that isn't cheap. But strangely enough Fisher never mentions that.

If we had our own stadium the upkeep would have to come from income. And as we are now having to pay our own way it could even reduce funds for the squad.
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SISU want the asset value of a stadium or ongoing rental from it, that is what they don't get that comparable hedge funds do. Their own stupid fault..
 
oldskyblue58

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
think comparisons are tricky at times - eg some clubs include player trading as turnover others (CCFC) don't

I would have more sympathy with the Fisher if there was some evidence of the CCFC trying to develop other income sources, thinking outside the box or simply creating partnerships to create income

instead it seems to be a bitter and twisted it should be ours and its not fair

How do we know that other clubs do not have circumstances resulting in opportunity losses?
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
oldskyblue58 said:
think comparisons are tricky at times - eg some clubs include player trading as turnover others (CCFC) don't

I would have more sympathy with the Fisher if there was some evidence of the CCFC trying to develop other income sources, thinking outside the box or simply creating partnerships to create income

instead it seems to be a bitter and twisted it should be ours and its not fair

How do we know that other clubs do not have circumstances resulting in opportunity losses?
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Yes it's impossible. Some revenues include sales and others don't. The one I quoted (Walsall) does have the exceptional ground billboard values and its 200 stall market hire. So all positions are unique.

At the moment though the club is benefitting from an exceptional rental arrangement which will not be offered again. If a normal commercial rent is applied and we remain we then become very uncompetitive.
 
Captain Dart

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
Fisher wanted to outsource the whole lot didn't he if SISU took control of the Ricoh. To AEG if I remember correctly. What would that have left for the club? Also why AEG? Is there a conection there with SISU?
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Well you might wonder...

AEG sports soccer
Soccer is the world's game and AEG is developing top-tier teams that can compete on a global scale. AEG currently owns Major League Soccer's five-time Champion LA Galaxy. Not only does AEG own three successful professional soccer teams, it also owns and operates StubHub Center in Carson, California, one of the world's premier soccer stadiums and training facilities. The stadium has hosted International Friendlies, World Cup Qualifiers, CONCACAF Gold Cups and several other competitions. It is also the official training center of the United States Soccer Federation.

McBean
Sky Blues loan is LA Galaxy golden boy
 
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bawtryneal

bawtryneal

Well-Known Member
dongonzalos said:
If I was running the show I advice SISU that you have to speculate to accumulate. There is no better time to do it than division4 where the investment would not need to be extortionate.
I would convince them that under Robins we have a genuine chance. I would convince them to give Robins a top 2 budget. I would convince them that we need to earn the fans trust.
I would device a scheme where you agree to buy a season ticket for £300. You pay £100 upfront. At the halfway point of the season. If we are not within 9 points of the playoffs you can walk away if you choose however if we are within 9 points you are automatically charged the £200
It's shows firstly SISU are prepared to give us s top two budget and do want success.
It shows they have confidence that we will achieve it.
It's an incentive and a thank you to the loyal fans who no longer believe and are about to walk away.
For SISU you are speculating to accumulate, of course there is a gamble. However under the current plan the drop in ticket sales will result in us been very lucky if we can challenge.
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Some good ideas Dongonzalos and "thinking out of the box"
The first thing on my list if I was SISU would be to sack Fisher and then start the long process of regaining the fans (customers) trust
Then speculate to accumulate as you suggest.. With proper business communication and accumen all the investment would be self funding.
 
bawtryneal

bawtryneal

Well-Known Member
hill83 said:
Mental. Far too much sambuca. Still not right after 4 days. Dressed up like a plonker for the majority of it and the best man had to leave a day early as his 36 weeks pregnant wife was in a car crash. Everyone is fine though.
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Shotgun wedding eh !! The best weddings of all.
 
Irish Sky Blue

Irish Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
SkyBlue_Bear83 said:
Copy and pasting someone elses work is his MO
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Isn't it good to get info like this to as wide an audience as possible? I am glad he is retweeting it as other media outlets might pick it up. Purely on the basis that Fisher won't like people reading this makes it a good move. Why criticise someone who is getting the truth out there for everyone to see?
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
Worth noting that Scunthorpe are moving to a new stadium to generate more non match day revenue, of course.
 
Esoterica

Esoterica

Well-Known Member
bawtryneal said:
Some good ideas Dongonzalos and "thinking out of the box"
The first thing on my list if I was SISU would be to sack Fisher and then start the long process of regaining the fans (customers) trust
Then speculate to accumulate as you suggest.. With proper business communication and accumen all the investment would be self funding.
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One of the things that struck me at the Trust meeting with Fisher was how he suggested, when questionned on communication with fans being poor, that Mark Robins would be speaking to us more! Way to deliberately miss the point! He's the football team manager, it's all the off the field things that we want to know about, from someone like our... chairman!
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
Yes it's impossible. Some revenues include sales and others don't. The one I quoted (Walsall) does have the exceptional ground billboard values and its 200 stall market hire. So all positions are unique.

At the moment though the club is benefitting from an exceptional rental arrangement which will not be offered again. If a normal commercial rent is applied and we remain we then become very uncompetitive.
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Uncompetitive at which level and by what measure?
The balance sheet or sporting achievement?
The model for the Butts is no panacea.
Just a deconstruct to a point where a balance may be achieved and back pats around for the owner and Tim.
Some vision.
What a success we'll become.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
hill83 said:
Mental. Far too much sambuca. Still not right after 4 days. Dressed up like a plonker for the majority of it and the best man had to leave a day early as his 36 weeks pregnant wife was in a car crash. Everyone is fine though.
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Glad to hear that.
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
chiefdave said:
Margin should generally run 25-35% for stadium catering. However if you also factor in that our prices are the highest in the league (according to the BBC's price of football survey) then it is reasonable to suggest the margin should be higher.

But even if it isn't you'd be looking at £360K compare to £70K, a not insignificant amount at this level. And of course if we were successful and attendances increased that number would rise.
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I thought you were outraged by that article and it's misrepresentation and that it wasn't us as the highest or if we are the highest it's only by pennies and not significant.
I do struggle to keep up sometimes I take it we can now use that survey to say it is one of the highest?
 
chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
dongonzalos said:
I thought you were outraged by that article and it's misrepresentation and that it wasn't us as the highest or if we are the highest it's only by pennies and not significant.
I do struggle to keep up sometimes I take it we can now use that survey to say it is one of the highest?
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Clearly you do struggle as I can't recall expressing outrage at the price of football survey.
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
chiefdave said:
Clearly you do struggle as I can't recall expressing outrage at the price of football survey.
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I think it was outrage at its representation. That when we were the most expensive in things it was pennies and not significant
Apologies if it wasn't you.
Something about us been more expensive than the average for things. However when you look at it deeper it was just pennies.
Match day programmes, tea and pies.
Think match day programs we are nearly average and tea and pies somewhere between 10-50p more
 
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Brylowes

Brylowes

Well-Known Member
clint van damme said:
I'll leave it for the likes of yourself and OSB58 who are more informed than me to decide whether it's a good model or not CD.

But the question I would ask is within the current model could we and should we be generating a bigger playing budget than we are?
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Our crowds are more than decent for this level.

Our rent is quite low, even for this level.

We are handed a percentage of match day revenue, with no financial risk to ourselves.

We have received substantial sums for players we have sold.

We outsource shop, ticket sales etc so therefore incur no costs ourselves.

We have just had a money-spinning day out at Wembley.

It baffles me how this man can keep spouting the shit he does, then despite this being
Proven beyond doubt, some give him the benefit of the doubt and suck it up.
 
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