But we dont have any other income....... (11 Viewers)

[Deleted member 5849]

That's strange really, Glandford Park is a 'new stadium' itself. Nice design.

Quite old now, mind. Was the first of the new stadiums... if such a thing exists!

 

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[Deleted member 5849]

The balance sheet or sporting achievement?

This is my whole problem, full-stop, though, that football is all about the finance.

That extends down to stadium discussion, and by having discussions such as this we're playing SISU's game, and taking football further away from the cultural element.

If my bank Holiday ends up boring, I'll bore y'all with me own thread on such things too

 

[Paxman II]

If I was running the show I advice SISU that you have to speculate to accumulate. There is no better time to do it than division4 where the investment would not need to be extortionate.
I would convince them that under Robins we have a genuine chance. I would convince them to give Robins a top 2 budget. I would convince them that we need to earn the fans trust.
I would devise a scheme where you agree to buy a season ticket for £300. You pay £100 upfront. At the halfway point of the season. If we are not within 9 points of the playoffs you can walk away if you choose however if we are within 9 points you are automatically charged the £200
It's shows firstly SISU are prepared to give us a top two budget and do want success.
It shows they have confidence that we will achieve it.
It's an incentive and a thank you to the loyal fans who no longer believe and are about to walk away.
For SISU you are speculating to accumulate, of course there is a gamble. However under the current plan the drop in ticket sales will result in us been very lucky if we can mount a challenge.

Nice thought but it's an incentive for the fans to buy a ticket and maybe only pay 100. For the club its a disastrous idea...gambling on your income? It's football and by nature however they invested is always a no guarantee of success.

 

[Paxman II]

The fact remains we should be a top player in league 2 based on our income stream as outlined by OSB58, along with a crowd pulling base of a large city club (even given we are in the bottom league) and less overhead/associated cost.
OSB58 is correct, Fisher has neglected to mention the full extent of our 'income' and income potential for that matter. But then while others think he does this kind of thing deliberately I believe he is simply either misguided or does not know his front from his back quite honestly, and the position he holds is above his pay scale shall we say.

 

[wingy]

Our crowds are more than decent for this level.

Our rent is quite low, even for this level.

We are handed a percentage of match day revenue, with no financial risk to ourselves.

We have received substantial sums for players we have sold.

We outsource shop, ticket sales etc so therefore incur no costs ourselves.

We have just had a money-spinning day out at Wembley.

It baffles me how this man can keep spouting the shit he does, then despite this being
Proven beyond doubt, some give him the benefit of the doubt and suck it up.

But beyond all that shit the useless **** has presided over 'TWO' relegations.
In RFC. parlance, GIVE ME STRENGTH.

 

[Colin Steins Smile]

Well done OSB on an interesting comparative analysis of the clubs finances. It reinforces the view that TF is a very poor business leader and has a very limited knowledge base.

 

[bawtryneal]

I'll have a proper read through later on at work. I'm doing the classic night shift, 'trying to sleep in the day and instantly being wide awake for no reason', routine at the moment.

You should have worked harder at school and then you would have a proper job on days.

 

[stupot07]

Just to give you an idea of income sources this is how Scunthorpe United disclose theirs in the 2016 accounts

View attachment 7134

this is the disclosure for CCFC

View attachment 7135

This is the disclosure for Walsall, roughly 40% more non match receipt income, despite significantly lower crowds....

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[ccfc92]

This is the disclosure for Walsall, roughly 40% more non match receipt income, despite significantly lower crowds....

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Do you have their outgoings?

 

[wingy]

Final The



Turnover SUFC £3.7m Player sales £0 total spend before interest 6.9m
Turnover CCFC £5.4m Player sales £2.5m total spend before interest 7.3m
League position
SUFC 7th
CCFC 8th

Its not all about the money and turnover

This is what grinds my gears.
The player budget looks to be 40% I'm guessing without direct costs applied.
The overall spend Is £7.3M, making it around 30% of all income. What is eating up the rest besides £600K to the Academy, rent and renting the Higgs.
Apart from a small backroom staff tax and insurance, what else is there?
It seems the academy 'lifeblood of the club ' generates income, yet for some reason we don't want to use it for maximising the quality of player we wish to attract.

 

[wingy]

This is the disclosure for Walsall, roughly 40% more non match receipt income, despite significantly lower crowds....

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Looks like their play off run brought in roughly a million.

 

[Grendel]

Looks like their play off run brought in roughly a million.

Match receipts are pretty small.

They make income from having 365 days revenue and it's a significant revenue versus rental cost.

I tried explaining to someone else on another thread but I have given up.

 

[Grendel]

Do you have their outgoings?

They made £475,000 profit that year.

 

[xcraigx]

Not sure if it's been mentioned on here but companies house is free these days. I could have sworn it cost a couple of quid a search last time I used it. Lots of great information if you have the time to search.

Companies House service

 

[stupot07]

Do you have their outgoings?

They made £500k profit, in fact they have made profits for something like 11 of their last 12 years

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[ccfc92]

Match receipts are pretty small.

They make income from having 365 days revenue and it's a significant revenue versus rental cost.

I tried explaining to someone else on another thread but I have given up.

Do they have a share in the retail outlet there? The Bescot Retail Park?

 

[skybluetony176]

Looks like their play off run brought in roughly a million.

Both legs were televised so there was definitely a windfall there.

 

[skybluetony176]

They made £500k profit, in fact they have made profits for something like 11 of their last 12 years

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It's better than that. I read an article saying they've made profit for 20 out of the last 23 years. No great shakes in terms of pound notes but impressive non the less for what has essentially been a league one club all those years.

 

[ccfc92]

It's a shame the football and commercial revenue is incorporated.

I just can't see how the Bescot stadium generates so much revenue? From what I can see there's no hotel there. Just the function room and that bar next to the ground.

 

[wingy]

Match receipts are pretty small.

They make income from having 365 days revenue and it's a significant revenue versus rental cost.

I tried explaining to someone else on another thread but I have given up.

Ah.
Just looking at the jump of around a million between the two years.
Player sales also?
It illustrates for that club at this level, that their fans seem accustomed to, it works.
So now we need the owner to build and then offer reasonable terms to the club
Be interesting to know what the ground element cost Bonsor?) when he came in or whether it came with the club historically tied to it and he separated it out?
Seem to remember one of their fans during Northampton alluding to the rent being his pension, as though it hadn't been that way previously.

 

[Captain Dart]

Margin should generally run 25-35% for stadium catering. However if you also factor in that our prices are the highest in the league (according to the BBC's price of football survey) then it is reasonable to suggest the margin should be higher.

But even if it isn't you'd be looking at £360K compare to £70K, a not insignificant amount at this level. And of course if we were successful and attendances increased that number would rise.

Why are you fixating on the pies, it would be a smallish proportion of the turnover & profit even if the margins were doubled or even trebled.
The main source of income is tickets and to sell more tickets you need a winning team, good management and excellent PR. Need I say more?

 

[speedie87]

Doesn't the advert on on top of the stand that can be seen from m6 earn them mega money

 

[oldskyblue58]

Here is the bit that Grendel highlighted earlier, different clubs have different definitions of match or commercial income

You also have to look at the fact they got to the playoff semi finals, good cup runs against big(ger) teams including Chelsea and put on a pop concert. All that will have affected the following

- shop sales (we franchise ours)
- TV money
- sponsorship (I assume Banks pay for the name) but cup runs attract others
- prize money
- event income (the one category we apparently can not possibly access, (not that I agree with that), the others above we can especially this season despite relegation)

- They rent the stadium but have income rights but also the right to pick up all the stadium running costs

our turnover despite ultimate failure was 5.4m, their success brought them in another £1m. Wonder what the comparison will be like for this season where both teams have dipped but we had Wembley

their total wage bill 3.447m ................ ours 4.306m.... value for money?

They also do not have massive amounts of high interest bearing debt

 

[oldskyblue58]

Look the figures & % ages etc are going to vary from team to team. The point of the first post was that we have more income than match day tickets, the assertion made by Fisher in his statement yesterday was simply incorrect

 

[skybluetony176]

Here is the bit that Grendel highlighted earlier, different clubs have different definitions of match or commercial income

You also have to look at the fact they got to the playoff semi finals, good cup runs against big(ger) teams including Chelsea and put on a pop concert. All that will have affected the following

- shop sales (we franchise ours)
- TV money
- sponsorship (I assume Banks pay for the name) but cup runs attract others
- prize money
- event income (the one category we apparently can not possibly access the others above we can especially this season despite relegation)

- They rent the stadium but have income rights but also the right to pick up all the stadium running costs

our turnover despite ultimate failure was 5.4m, their success brought them in another £1m. Wonder what the comparison will be like for this season where both teams have dipped but we had Wembley

their total wage bill 3.447m ................ ours 4.306m.... value for money?

Talking of concerts didn't Elton John do a concert at the Banks that's in the last set of accounts?

 

[rupert_bear]

Thank You OSB,

When its put this way it starts to make you want to ask more questions.;

This isn't a knock at our Trust Steve but why the hell wasn't what OSB has put put to Fisher at that meeting a few weeks ago ? Would I believe put him right on the spot.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Lot of questions didn't get answered or were deflected or passed over largely because of the way a number people (quite understandably) wanted their say, rant or diatribe. It needed people to listen but in that format it was never going to happen

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Yes it's impossible. Some revenues include sales and others don't. The one I quoted (Walsall) does have the exceptional ground billboard values and its 200 stall market hire. So all positions are unique.

At the moment though the club is benefitting from an exceptional rental arrangement which will not be offered again. If a normal commercial rent is applied and we remain we then become very uncompetitive.

But isn't that run by Bescott promotions and aren't the council part of it?g

 

[chiefdave]

Look the figures & % ages etc are going to vary from team to team. The point of the first post was that we have more income than match day tickets, the assertion made by Fisher in his statement yesterday was simply incorrect

Personally I just assume its used as a shorthand. He doesn't explain everything in detail at the best of times so he's not going to drill down on the finances in a statement like the one he made yesterday. If you look at what he said:

We are unlike most other football clubs, in that we do not benefit from non-ticketing revenue. The club does not get either matchday non-ticketing revenues or non-matchday revenues. We are therefore pushed to generate most income via ticketing means, and this puts pressure on the current Season Ticket pricing structure.

then what is the better, more accurate, term for him to use? I think we all know what he's getting at, he's been banging on about it for long enough.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Personally I just assume its used as a shorthand. He doesn't explain everything in detail at the best of times so he's not going to drill down on the finances in a statement like the one he made yesterday. If you look at what he said:

then what is the better, more accurate, term for him to use? I think we all know what he's getting at, he's been banging on about it for long enough.

He's banging on about us paying for his mistakes whereas it should be SISU

 

[ccfc92]

Personally I just assume its used as a shorthand. He doesn't explain everything in detail at the best of times so he's not going to drill down on the finances in a statement like the one he made yesterday. If you look at what he said:

then what is the better, more accurate, term for him to use? I think we all know what he's getting at, he's been banging on about it for long enough.

Yet, oddly, we are nowhere closer to securing revenue streams than when he first rocked up.

 

[The Reverend Skyblue]

Has Tony and G finished their daily row, was it on this thread.

 

[Suffolk sky blues]

As a supporter I would like to say sorry.to Tim & joy. Happy easter.ps war is war.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Personally I just assume its used as a shorthand. He doesn't explain everything in detail at the best of times so he's not going to drill down on the finances in a statement like the one he made yesterday. If you look at what he said:

then what is the better, more accurate, term for him to use? I think we all know what he's getting at, he's been banging on about it for long enough.

not asking him to drill down the finances. It isn't a misquote of an off the cuff interview it is a prepared statement. It isn't short hand for anything

is this bit of his statement wrong or right?

"The club does not get either matchday non-ticketing revenues or non-matchday revenues".

That is clear and unequivocable isn't it .............. it is also incorrect and misleading

 

[torchomatic]

Has Tony and G finished their daily row, was it on this thread.

It's on most threads.